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Corax bonus is pretty awful CCP
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Arla Sarain
#1 - 2014-01-23 18:07:02 UTC
Why does a Corax have bonus to explosion velocity?
This stat is for improving the effectiveness of large warheads aimed at small targets.
But the only ammunition available to the Corax is already sufficient to combat small targets.

Not only that, but the effect of this stat on the rocket and light missile damage is relatively small compared to larger ammunition.
No wonder the Talwar is boss. Slot allocation and CPU/PW pools are acceptable constraints which model the obstacles players have to overcome, but a useless bonus is a useless bonus.

Heck I'd feel more proud of drone hitpoints on a 0 drone bay ship.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-01-23 18:40:11 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:

This stat is for improving the effectiveness of large warheads aimed at small targets.

hmmm.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2014-01-23 18:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
The explosion velocity of light missiles is ~250, and the bonus increases it to 375.

The Corax explosion velocity increases the damage applied to frigates by ~27% assuming it is moving faster than 425 m/s. That might seem like a negligible bonus to you, but it is pretty big boost especially when fighting AB frigates.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#4 - 2014-01-23 18:48:24 UTC
Actually, explosion velocity helps to increase damage against fast targets, not small targets. A corax will do closer to full damage than a talwar against a frigate with an afterburner for example but they'd both do the same amount if it was holding still (damage type aside). Furies will perform much better on a corax than on a talwar.

Get both ships and load them with thermal missiles (so damage type is irrelevant), a friend in a frigate with an afterburner, and experiment. Maybe the bonus isn't all it could be, but you're just misinformed if you really think it's useless. 
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Arla Sarain
#5 - 2014-01-24 15:14:18 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Actually, explosion velocity helps to increase damage against fast targets, not small targets. A corax will do closer to full damage than a talwar against a frigate with an afterburner for example but they'd both do the same amount if it was holding still (damage type aside). Furies will perform much better on a corax than on a talwar.

Get both ships and load them with thermal missiles (so damage type is irrelevant), a friend in a frigate with an afterburner, and experiment. Maybe the bonus isn't all it could be, but you're just misinformed if you really think it's useless.

The relevance of the bonus effect is still small and no close to 20%. Be it 20%, hypothetically, 1 fifth of a small number is still a small number. It's like saying 3 is closer to a 100 than 2. Yes it is. But both are miles away from 100 regardless.

You can accept pool limitations and slot allocation, but a lackluster bonus is what is driving this ship into the abyss.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#6 - 2014-01-24 15:35:00 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Actually, explosion velocity helps to increase damage against fast targets, not small targets. A corax will do closer to full damage than a talwar against a frigate with an afterburner for example but they'd both do the same amount if it was holding still (damage type aside). Furies will perform much better on a corax than on a talwar.

Get both ships and load them with thermal missiles (so damage type is irrelevant), a friend in a frigate with an afterburner, and experiment. Maybe the bonus isn't all it could be, but you're just misinformed if you really think it's useless.

The relevance of the bonus effect is still small and no close to 20%. Be it 20%, hypothetically, 1 fifth of a small number is still a small number. It's like saying 3 is closer to a 100 than 2. Yes it is. But both are miles away from 100 regardless.

You can accept pool limitations and slot allocation, but a lackluster bonus is what is driving this ship into the abyss.

I don't mean to be rude but did you actually read any of the responses you got? The bonus isn't useless when shooting at frigates that are moving. Since the Destroyers are supposed to be frigate killers and frigates never stay still, it's still a half decent bonus.
Juan Thang
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#7 - 2014-01-24 15:37:50 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Actually, explosion velocity helps to increase damage against fast targets, not small targets. A corax will do closer to full damage than a talwar against a frigate with an afterburner for example but they'd both do the same amount if it was holding still (damage type aside). Furies will perform much better on a corax than on a talwar.

Get both ships and load them with thermal missiles (so damage type is irrelevant), a friend in a frigate with an afterburner, and experiment. Maybe the bonus isn't all it could be, but you're just misinformed if you really think it's useless.

The relevance of the bonus effect is still small and no close to 20%. Be it 20%, hypothetically, 1 fifth of a small number is still a small number. It's like saying 3 is closer to a 100 than 2. Yes it is. But both are miles away from 100 regardless.

You can accept pool limitations and slot allocation, but a lackluster bonus is what is driving this ship into the abyss.


I have flown the corax and I actually really liked it, its fine for taking out targets if you fly it well. the range you can get with it is really nice, as well as not having a bonus to mwd sig which I happen not to like. Bonus's do not make a ship. You do.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-01-24 16:19:14 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:

The relevance of the bonus effect is still small and no close to 20%. Be it 20%, hypothetically, 1 fifth of a small number is still a small number. It's like saying 3 is closer to a 100 than 2. Yes it is. But both are miles away from 100 regardless.

You can accept pool limitations and slot allocation, but a lackluster bonus is what is driving this ship into the abyss.



I'm not sure you understand the relevance of the bonus and it's strength.

You need to consider it more like a tracking bonus and this is how strong it is:

A Corax will deal roughly 75% of its paper DPS to an AB frigate

A Talwar will deal roughly 58% of its paper DPS to an AB frigate.

This equates to a difference in volley damage between the two ships of about 300 damage. That's not an ammout to be sniffed at when you're shooting at targets with roughly 6k EHP.

So a Corax will kill an AB Merlin in less than 7 volleys.

It will take a Talwar 10 volleys.

That is an enormous difference
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2014-01-24 16:28:32 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Actually, explosion velocity helps to increase damage against fast targets, not small targets. A corax will do closer to full damage than a talwar against a frigate with an afterburner for example but they'd both do the same amount if it was holding still (damage type aside). Furies will perform much better on a corax than on a talwar.

Get both ships and load them with thermal missiles (so damage type is irrelevant), a friend in a frigate with an afterburner, and experiment. Maybe the bonus isn't all it could be, but you're just misinformed if you really think it's useless.

The relevance of the bonus effect is still small and no close to 20%. Be it 20%, hypothetically, 1 fifth of a small number is still a small number. It's like saying 3 is closer to a 100 than 2. Yes it is. But both are miles away from 100 regardless.

You can accept pool limitations and slot allocation, but a lackluster bonus is what is driving this ship into the abyss.


If you have to do 100 points of damage to kill a target, there is a WORLD of different between 3 and 2 damage per second.

Both the Talwar and Corax get a bonus (up to 25%) to their racial damage type.

The secondary bonus of the Corax makes it more capable of damaging moving frigates, and a 27% increase in damage is a HUGE increase in this game. Granted, this bonus is worthless if you're targetting a non-mwd frig moving under 300 m/s (or dessie under 500 m/s), but there are many environments where such targets are few and far between.

The secondary bonus of the Talwar reduces its sig bloom, which makes it harder to hit with medium and large weapons when microwarping. This has little effect when it is fighting frigate and dessie hulls, and no effect if the talwar isn't microwarping.

So, while running a kiting, mwd-always-on alpha missile fleet, the talwar is a great choice. When taking on AB frigs, the corax is very much superior.