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Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#461 - 2014-01-29 02:57:57 UTC
It does not need to allow squad warping.

If you take a mission, hand the waypoint to a PvP alt, and have that alt form a greifing gank fleet he can just sit in the pocket and kill anyone else who joins his fleet and warps to the mission as he likes.

In EVE, one always has to account for the abusive use of Alts.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#462 - 2014-01-29 03:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Quote:
Why do you care if high bears quit missioning (which they won't)? Why do you care if they can't grind isk as efficiently as before (which they will)?

I'm not sure that I do.

Quote:
I'd also love for you to explain how the suspect flags idea with missions (with missioners that roll with their babbysafety on green 24/7) will suddenly suffer MORE because of the change?

Simple statistics. If I suicide gank a mission runner, I'm guaranteed to lose every ship I use to aggress the target. With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships. This makes ganking more profitable for me and gives me more ships to perform more ganks with, thus increasing the occurrence of suicide ganks against mission runners. With the extra ISK I save in BCs, I can probably even afford to gank targets that wouldn't usually be profitable.

Quote:

They'll never accidentally shoot suspects, and vigilantes are interested in player kills, so they'll come in and blow up other suspect flagged people, even other vigilantes.

They'll have to get there before CONCORD does.

Quote:
This isn't the missioners problem

It is when their mission site is turned into a battleground and they are prevented from continuing their mission.

Quote:
You actually think that the vigilantes are going to waste their time blowing up missioner wrecks especially the specific ones that matter instead of looking for more killmails?

Yeah, maybe. I guess they would if there was nothing better to do.

Oh god.
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#463 - 2014-01-29 03:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It does not need to allow squad warping.

If you take a mission, hand the waypoint to a PvP alt, and have that alt form a greifing gank fleet he can just sit in the pocket and kill anyone else who joins his fleet and warps to the mission as he likes.

In EVE, one always has to account for the abusive use of Alts.



Seems very complicated... much harder than what griefers can do to mess with missioners now....


A suspect flag definitely raises the risk to anyone coming in to grief.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#464 - 2014-01-29 03:09:44 UTC
Also, I've never stated that I'm a ganker, mission runner or anything else.

Oh god.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#465 - 2014-01-29 03:17:46 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Holy quote stack


How does this change prevent you from losing every single ship in a suicide gank? I've been suiciding for a long time now, longer than that character has existed and I don't know how this could change the dynamic from today. You can still bait people by stealing from a wreck to force suspect, this change wouldn't make it any different. You still get concorded if you attack them, suspect or not.

Ships are exploding around them that aren't theirs. Oh no! Looks like I can't finish this mission. Wouldn't want any stray bullets/lasers to hit my ship. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in eve. If anything, it would make the mission even easier than it already is because the rats would shoot players using webs, scrams and other ewar as that tends to draw a lot of hate from npcs.

The shooting wrecks when they have nothing better to do is silly as there are other systems to check for more suspect ganks.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#466 - 2014-01-29 03:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: My Little Pyongyang
Genius CCP forum: "Message body can not be empty.Why do you want to post an empty message?"

To delete it because of accidental doubleposts from your ****** forums.
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#467 - 2014-01-29 03:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Riot Girl wrote:


With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.



As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.

And, the added suspect flag gives all of the other benefits listed in the OP, specifically many more options are available for legally countering the invasion.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#468 - 2014-01-29 03:22:21 UTC
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:


With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.



As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.

Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped.

Oh god.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#469 - 2014-01-29 03:23:38 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It does not need to allow squad warping.

If you take a mission, hand the waypoint to a PvP alt, and have that alt form a greifing gank fleet he can just sit in the pocket and kill anyone else who joins his fleet and warps to the mission as he likes.

In EVE, one always has to account for the abusive use of Alts.


Sorry, I'm not getting how this is working. You hand your waypoint to a pvp alt, giving them the location and they warp to it.

Are they flagged or not in your system? Not that it matters. If they are authorized to be there, they can sit there and wait for people to warp in as suspect and then blap them. I don't see a problem with this. If they aren't authorized to be there, they are suspect and can be shot by anyone who enters the pocket, authorized or not.

Why is this a problem?
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#470 - 2014-01-29 03:23:58 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:


With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.



As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.

Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped.



So you know that your post is wrong and that you are spreading misinformation. You may want to edit it.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#471 - 2014-01-29 03:24:54 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:


With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.



As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.

Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped.


They won't shoot you, they have their safety on green. It defaults to green and mission bears don't touch that button, they are afraid of it. The only difference between now and this proposed system is it takes the choice of being suspect out of your hands.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#472 - 2014-01-29 03:26:41 UTC
My Little Pyongyang wrote:
How does this change prevent you from losing every single ship in a suicide gank? I've been suiciding for a long time now, longer than that character has existed and I don't know how this could change the dynamic from today. You can still bait people by stealing from a wreck to force suspect, this change wouldn't make it any different. You still get concorded if you attack them, suspect or not.

Because people are more likely to shoot at suspects. That is the whole point of this change, right?

Quote:
Ships are exploding around them that aren't theirs. Oh no! Looks like I can't finish this mission. Wouldn't want any stray bullets/lasers to hit my ship. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in eve. If anything, it would make the mission even easier than it already is because the rats would shoot players using webs, scrams and other ewar as that tends to draw a lot of hate from npcs.

Mission triggers, mission items etc. You'd have to ask the mission runners who presented these concerns for more details.

Oh god.
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#473 - 2014-01-29 03:27:26 UTC
My Little Pyongyang wrote:


The only difference between now and this proposed system is it takes the choice of being suspect out of your hands.



You have a clear understanding of the intention and result of the suggestion to treat mission invasion as a "suspicious act."

This is what the griefers are afraid of.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#474 - 2014-01-29 03:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:


With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.



As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.

Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped.



So you know that your post is wrong and that you are spreading misinformation. You may want to edit it.


The whole point of your stupid idea is to make it more likely that people will shoot suspects. Now you're saying people won't shoot suspects. WTF is wrong with you?

Oh god.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#475 - 2014-01-29 03:30:10 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
My Little Pyongyang wrote:
How does this change prevent you from losing every single ship in a suicide gank? I've been suiciding for a long time now, longer than that character has existed and I don't know how this could change the dynamic from today. You can still bait people by stealing from a wreck to force suspect, this change wouldn't make it any different. You still get concorded if you attack them, suspect or not.

Because people are more likely to shoot at suspects. That is the whole point of this change, right?

Quote:
Ships are exploding around them that aren't theirs. Oh no! Looks like I can't finish this mission. Wouldn't want any stray bullets/lasers to hit my ship. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in eve. If anything, it would make the mission even easier than it already is because the rats would shoot players using webs, scrams and other ewar as that tends to draw a lot of hate from npcs.

Mission triggers, mission items etc. You'd have to ask the mission runners who presented these concerns for more details.



They are not more likely to shoot you at all. Ever since the safety change the accidental deaths due to engaging can thieves has plummeted. It's not worth my time to go into mission pockets and dance around flagged waiting for them to shoot me so I can warp in my logi and break their stuff.

These mission runners are bad and don't know how to shoot npcs. Bad mission runners aren't really relevant.
My Little Pyongyang
Doomheim
#476 - 2014-01-29 03:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: My Little Pyongyang
Riot Girl wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:


With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.



As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission.

Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped.



So you know that your post is wrong and that you are spreading misinformation. You may want to edit it.


The whole point of your stupid idea is to make it more likely that people will shoot suspects. Now you're saying people won't shoot suspects. WTF is wrong with you?


Mission bears won't shoot suspects. Players who pose as mission bears setting up traps for griefers will shoot suspects. This is where the fun is.

Edit: The point is to allow people the choice to defend themselves if they wish. Right now against griefers who specifically don't flag themselves and harrass in other ways have no defense. Mission griefing is the lowest risk activity in the game, lower than null sec mining.
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#477 - 2014-01-29 03:31:06 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:


The whole point of your stupid idea is to make it more likely that people will shoot suspects. Now your saying people won't shoot suspects. WTF is wrong with you?



I think that you may need to re-read the original post.

People have commented on how clear and concise it is. But is is a bit long.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#478 - 2014-01-29 03:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
My Little Pyongyang wrote:


Mission bears won't shoot suspects. Players who pose as mission bears setting up traps for griefers will shoot suspects. This is where the fun is.



Wow. I never even considered the option for someone to accept a mission with the sole intention of killing mission invaders/griefers for sport.

This is yet another added bonus of the suspect flag suggestion.

Thank you for pointing it out Big smile

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#479 - 2014-01-29 03:34:50 UTC
My Little Pyongyang wrote:
They are not more likely to shoot you at all. Ever since the safety change the accidental deaths due to engaging can thieves has plummeted. It's not worth my time to go into mission pockets and dance around flagged waiting for them to shoot me so I can warp in my logi and break their stuff.

I'm not talking about can-flipping, I'm talking about suicide ganking. If mission runners aren't going to shoot me, then what is the point of this change? So vigilantes can shoot me? Well they can already shoot me right after I've legitimately committed a crime.

Oh god.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#480 - 2014-01-29 03:36:08 UTC
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
My Little Pyongyang wrote:


Mission bears won't shoot suspects. Players who pose as mission bears setting up traps for griefers will shoot suspects. This is where the fun is.



Wow. I never even considered the option for someone to accept a mission with the sole intention of killing mission invaders/griefers for sport.

This is yet another added bonus of the suspect flag suggestion.

Thank you for pointing it out Big smile


540 posts and it didn't even cross your mind. Shows how much thought you've put into this.

Oh god.