Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Why not just make the player go suspect when they actually begin the suspicious act*?

PvP is good. Counter-play is good.

Why should mission thieves/griefers be so scared of getting a suspect flag when they warp in?

And, why should Concord protect them from any counter from the missioner after they invade the mission owner's site?


Edit: Suspect flag is the suggestion

how is it a criminal act right off the bat? there is no act committed yet. Hope you don't work in law enforcement.



The player could be testing out probing skills. Innocent as lets find ship, then warp to it. Not all have dual boxed alts to test this on.

TBH I have had this issue with paranoid asshats in 0.0.

WTF, why are you probing me?
Ummm....because I suck at probing ships and I am practicing. Chill, intel is clean and its dead for action now anyway.


Worried that much about it, run hard to find setups. I have a hard to find tengu. Above would not apply to me. As I know nooby noob did not jsut buy virtues (only way to find me) to give em a go day 1 of learning how to probe. If he comes in uncloaked I am actually happy he is there to flip cans. The more likely option he is a cloaked warp in for a gank squad seeing what shinies the tengu will drop.

I read that thread, and instead of the OP being happy he outsmarted the thief (even though it was reset) he complained about it.. because he had to do more effort to get the item.. which I find it highly disturbing considering he should be glad that he got the item after his hard work yet he complains and nags ?

Cosmos missions are pretty unique though, once in a lifetime, then again so are multiple ships that have been given away in the past years worth billions and they are also nonexistent due to their destruction, I think you should ENJOY this unique mechanic and find it a challenging reward when you finish it instead of changing the game.

Also, if at ever CCP decides to change it, how would a criminal flag even solve it? what if they ganked you AFTER you took the item?

I find it very disturbing that CCP decided to reset this mission..

Ok, I'm interjecting here. So, let's break it down.

1) I do condone the allowance for item theft and the like in mission pockets, it adds good gameplay and is part of the freedom of the sandbox.

2) I also recognize that the OP has made, potentially, a valid argument and that if CCP has taken past intervention in this mission it sets a precedent for his position, regardless of whether or not one agrees with CCPs actions.

3) The reason I have said the OP provides a "potentially" valid argument for this situation is that I have not been able to find (online) the system in which this mission occurs. If this situation occurs outside of high sec space, then I would say that while the mechanics could be improved (allowing the mission to be repeated and the like, as mentioned on page 1) the missioner should take the initiative and attack someone interfering. Even if this means a sec status hit.

4) This said, if the mission does in fact take place in high sec (as is the impression I am getting from his posts) then I would say that the mechanics are in fact too heavily skewed against the one doing the mission as they cannot adequately take action against the intruding party without facing a concord response.

5) All things considered I would support, not a sec status hit, but suspect status for those entering mission/COSMOS deadspace complexes if they are not in fleet. There isn't a huge drawback to this mechanic, the interfering party is just more likely to get a gudfight as opposed to an easy mark. Chances are if you are entering someone else's mission zone your being a dirty thieving pirate, so act like one and be prepared for the consequences. I fully support such shenanigans in all areas of space, but I don't agree that such capsuleers should be, by proxy, protected by concord. That is to say, if you want to be a pirate, that's awesome, but you should not be shielded by game mechanics that skew engagements in your favor so much.

TL;DR This isn't a bad idea, as it would promote the chances of gudfights in high sec as opposed to concord protected theft. I would rather see the actual COSMOS mission mechanics improved, however, as this is clearly an outlier amongst missions and may not warrant a revisiting of crime mechanics.

But hey, that's just my thoughts, and I'm clearly biased towards wanting to see more gudfights in high sec as opposed to petty theft, so take it as you will.

I believe that Gigan Amilupar's post is quite on point.

You know, I think part of the issue here is that Pirates gets to hide behind CONCORD until they decide to stick their tongue out at the missioner and make a funny face before they warp out with the required mission item. There's a certain argument that "EVE isn't fair", but there is some semblance of balance that CCP tries to keep in EVE, otherwise you'd have everyone in Nullsec alliances flying GM ships and suicide ganking highsec missioners with doomsdays because they have essentially unlimited isk anyway.

The current way the Missioner/Pirate relationship works is heavily skewed in favor of the pirate, to the point where there's never any real hope the missioner has a chance. Hell, look at the killboards in a mission hub system, the proof is there: If a fight breaks out between a missioner and a pirate, chances are the pirate will win. This is because it's extremely hard to have a PVP fit work for PVE, and vice versa. Now, it's the missioner's choice if they want to engage the pirate, as the pirate can't attack them without it being a suicide gank... But that doesn't mean much if the pirate can't be attacked either because they aren't suspect yet. This leaves the pirate free to do as they wish in the mission, they don't even have aggro from the rats much of the time.

This isn't a problem anywhere but Highsec. In Nullsec, Lowsec, Wormholes, the missioner can deter the pirate the moment they warp in by opening fire. The playing field is level, with the missioner actually able to defend what he's worked for, and the pirate actually needs to put effort into his theft. Sure, there's still the PVE vs. PVP ship thing, but you'll have that either way. If you're ratting in Low/Null/WH with a PVE fit, you usually tend to avoid PVP anyway because, as stated, you probably don't stand as much of a chance. That's not the point.

The point is, CONCORD protects pirates and are, quite frankly, the main reason mission item thefts like this happen. Due to the way missions work and the nature of PVE, the missioner has everything to lose, and the pirate has everything to gain at zero risk to himself. The missioner can only stand idly by and watch as the pirate salvages wrecks while he waits for the mission item to drop. So what if he goes suspect when he grabs the mission loot? He's warped out by the time the missioner can do anything about it. Even if he hasn't? He's fit to kill the missioner, the missioner isn't fit to kill him. If the missioner fires he's doomed himself. Missioners don't commonly fit points, either, where Pirates almost always do, so the pirate can simply warp out anyway. Smart missioners know the only winning move is not to play, and simply warp out if a pirate warps in. If the pirate really wanted to, though, he could warp back, kill everything in a PVE ship, and run off with the quest item anyway.

Honestly, there should be some mechanic in place to deal with those entering missions other than the mission runner. Perhaps using an acceleration gate in someone's mission without being in their fleet would provide the missioner with a killright on the potential pirate, one that's only available for 25 minutes... Sort of like a suspect timer without being an actual suspect timer. Naturally a warning message should pop up when attempting to use the gate, maybe require safety be set to yellow. It gives the missioner the ability to defend themselves and their mission goods if possible, but doesn't guarantee that anyone warping in would be flagged for death for an accident or a mistake. It also gives the option for the missioner to return in a PVP ship to fight the pirate before they've actually stolen from them. Also allows for them to call in friends to do so for him, similarly to how the Pirate can call in logistics if he has connections.

The idea has its flaws, for example, I'm sure at least one person would be tricked into warping into someone's mission while not in fleet, awarding a killright, and getting ganked, but there's loopholes to everything. It seems like a sound idea, and honestly would open up far more PVP opportunities and emergent gameplay than the current system. Hell, as a good example, I had a suspect warp in on my mission several days ago claiming all my mission loot as his. Nothing I can do about this, as it's a level 4 mission and PVP buffer tanks, not to mention neuts, have no real use. Didn't care anyway because it was a rogue drone mission and I blitz. I said hi to him in local because he had an absurd CSPA fee, and two people messaged me in local wanting fleet invites to attack him. Long story short, I had 12 people in my mission, 6 of which were in Logistics ships, and I got to watch them flail about at each other until everyone got bored and the fight broke up because logistics makes everyone hard as hell to kill. If you could have an open killright on a potential pirate for anyone to take, it would present a lot more situations like that. It would make counter-piracy far more possible than it currently is, too.



Because they may not even have the opportunity because CONCORD silently looms over their shoulder.

This is exactly why we need to do Sabriz's idea:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931

The idea is essentially missions that pit player versus player. One player's mission is to steal the item, while the other must defend it.

CONCORD are killing suicide gankers before they gank now?

This seems like a really good idea for factional warfare. Maybe not for regular missions, but faction warfare that's be brilliant.

Because it's totally plausible and/or financially viable for a missioner to warp out, acquire a Catalyst, Trasher, Tornado, or Naga, warp back, and find the potential pirate still there waiting to be shot, then shoot them and sit out of their timed mission while their criminal timer ticks down.

If you're going to suggest that, it's only fair that mission income be jacked to by 10x the current amount so it's a viable option.