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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#41 - 2014-01-25 21:22:10 UTC
Meklon wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:


If you seriously wanted to speak on matters of peace, I doubt that PIE would be the people to talk to. Not that PIE is unreasonable, they're simply not the ones who propagate the warfare, you can blame the CEWPA for that. We would have to reverse the legislation to stop the warfare. Having you and PIE sit down to discuss terms of peace would be a bit like having two field sergeants sit down to discuss trade legislation. The best way to work towards that would be to pressure our own governments to work towards greater cooperation.

In the meantime, the soldiers will have to keep fighting. They don't have a choice.


I think you may be getting your wires crossed slightly there pilot. I don't think we're talking about what you think we're talking about.....


It wouldn't be the IGS without its fresh young tyros with no sense of history.

Though, for us to really have this discussion be complete Evanda would need to come out of retirement so Rodj could call her a witch.

Now about that meeting... where are you living these days, Terrorist?

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#42 - 2014-01-25 22:01:59 UTC
I met him in Pator today. You are welcome to come try and get him. It'd be just like the old days.

Else
Meklon
Minmatar United Freedom Front
#43 - 2014-01-25 22:29:47 UTC
Yes, having Evanda here would certainly give this reunion that extra bit of sass that has been missing off of IGS for such a long time.

As Else has said, I've been in Pator today... I'm hovering around the Matari / Caldari border at the moment, at least when I'm not relaxing outside the cluster - But even then you just need to ask and I'll let you know exactly where I am, but I'd struggle to give you the exact stellar co-ordinates of my usual residence.

Otherwise, feel free to come on down to Bei, I'm holed up there for the moment. I'll be waiting at the FX Bar around planet six... I may even persuade Elsebeth to dance.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2014-01-25 22:45:29 UTC
Somehow, I think the Matari Navy would take exception to me coming by. But do let me know if you are ever planning a trip my direction so that I can make the proper arrangements with CONCORD in advance.

Good luck with your dance.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Meklon
Minmatar United Freedom Front
#45 - 2014-01-25 22:59:48 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Somehow, I think the Matari Navy would take exception to me coming by. But do let me know if you are ever planning a trip my direction so that I can make the proper arrangements with CONCORD in advance.

Good luck with your dance.




Well the next time I have an exit around Empire space I shall certainly drop you a line. I'll look forward to the arrangements, just remember to have purple and yellow flares with a nice long conga line available to join.... oh, and steak... I haven't had steak in a looong time.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#46 - 2014-01-26 00:10:18 UTC
Meklon wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
If you seriously wanted to speak on matters of peace, I doubt that PIE would be the people to talk to. Not that PIE is unreasonable, they're simply not the ones who propagate the warfare, you can blame the CEWPA for that. We would have to reverse the legislation to stop the warfare. Having you and PIE sit down to discuss terms of peace would be a bit like having two field sergeants sit down to discuss trade legislation. The best way to work towards that would be to pressure our own governments to work towards greater cooperation.

In the meantime, the soldiers will have to keep fighting. They don't have a choice.


I think you may be getting your wires crossed slightly there pilot. I don't think we're talking about what you think we're talking about.....


He's right you know Constantin.

To be exact a long time before the militias were created EM pilots, in company with others, intercepted a transport belonging to a firm called Imperial Human Resources. It was our understanding that they were carrying illegally (even by Imperial standards) obtained Republican citizens. The transport was destroyed and it's passengers returned to the Republic.

PIE maintains that this was an attack on a legitimate Imperial business concern and fought a mutual war against us for some years. It varied between raiding and full blown battleship squadron fights.

We maintain that PIE can go take a collective long walk out of a short airlock without the benefit of protective clothing.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
Meklon
Minmatar United Freedom Front
#47 - 2014-01-26 00:20:52 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
[We maintain that PIE can go take a collective long walk out of a short airlock without the benefit of protective clothing.


Ahhh, Arnulf, it has been such a long time. I hope you are still well.
Ferro Mapindazi
#48 - 2014-01-26 00:31:22 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
I guess this means that Imperial Human Resources will now never get their apology or compensation.

The only apology owed is that more of you were not killed and your stench purged from New Eden.
The idea that any amarr slave cultist could fix their lips to ask for compensation is laughable
.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2014-01-26 03:02:18 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Meklon wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
If you seriously wanted to speak on matters of peace, I doubt that PIE would be the people to talk to. Not that PIE is unreasonable, they're simply not the ones who propagate the warfare, you can blame the CEWPA for that. We would have to reverse the legislation to stop the warfare. Having you and PIE sit down to discuss terms of peace would be a bit like having two field sergeants sit down to discuss trade legislation. The best way to work towards that would be to pressure our own governments to work towards greater cooperation.

In the meantime, the soldiers will have to keep fighting. They don't have a choice.


I think you may be getting your wires crossed slightly there pilot. I don't think we're talking about what you think we're talking about.....


He's right you know Constantin.

To be exact a long time before the militias were created EM pilots, in company with others, intercepted a transport belonging to a firm called Imperial Human Resources. It was our understanding that they were carrying illegally (even by Imperial standards) obtained Republican citizens. The transport was destroyed and it's passengers returned to the Republic.

PIE maintains that this was an attack on a legitimate Imperial business concern and fought a mutual war against us for some years. It varied between raiding and full blown battleship squadron fights.

We maintain that PIE can go take a collective long walk out of a short airlock without the benefit of protective clothing.


Forgive me, I thought the conversation had become a bit less adolescent. I apologize.

Please, do continue.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#50 - 2014-01-26 03:35:10 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Forgive me, I thought the conversation had become a bit less adolescent. I apologize.


Now, there is some irony for you.

Ferro Mapindazi wrote:
The only apology owed is that more of you were not killed and your stench purged from New Eden.
The idea that any amarr slave cultist could fix their lips to ask for compensation is laughable


Is this your alliances' official opinion on the matter or just your own?

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#51 - 2014-01-26 12:18:56 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Forgive me, I thought the conversation had become a bit less adolescent. I apologize.

Please, do continue.


Constantin. PIE are long-term foes. I, personally, respect their dedication and professionalism. However I have no time for the cause they demonstrate those qualities for.

Wishing destruction and frustration upon one's enemies is hardly adolescent.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#52 - 2014-01-26 14:09:29 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Forgive me, I thought the conversation had become a bit less adolescent. I apologize.

Please, do continue.


Constantin. PIE are long-term foes. I, personally, respect their dedication and professionalism. However I have no time for the cause they demonstrate those qualities for.

Wishing destruction and frustration upon one's enemies is hardly adolescent.


Attempting to appear intelligent by making snide remarks at other people's adolescence is pretty adolescent, though.

/me flips her hair and rolls her eyes, and says, in a Caille-girl accent, "Oh grow up!"

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2014-01-26 15:07:02 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Forgive me, I thought the conversation had become a bit less adolescent. I apologize.

Please, do continue.


Constantin. PIE are long-term foes. I, personally, respect their dedication and professionalism. However I have no time for the cause they demonstrate those qualities for.

Wishing destruction and frustration upon one's enemies is hardly adolescent.


Attempting to appear intelligent by making snide remarks at other people's adolescence is pretty adolescent, though.

/me flips her hair and rolls her eyes, and says, in a Caille-girl accent, "Oh grow up!"


Well, Ava, here we have something of a contrast. Arnulf has demonstrated a rather professional tone to take. They're meant to be soldiers doing their jobs. On the other hand, I'll admit that I've been very troubled hearing that a conflict that is inflicting an almost staggering number of crew losses sometimes devolves into bravado and the sort of threatening banter I heard on schoolyards when I was younger.

Obviously, they want each other to die (and to cause mass suffering among the crews of their enemies). It isn't necessary that they understand the violence in absolute terms; it makes being a soldier difficult. I can't hide that sometimes, when you're hearing about a few thousand people dying in a single day, it makes my skin crawl when we treat the warzone like some sort of game.

But I apologize if my own tone digressed. I am not flawless, and my feelings sometimes get the better of me. I can't help but sometimes feel disgusted by the tone. It's not always easy to overcome the urge to become unhelpful.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2014-01-26 16:31:43 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:


Obviously, they want each other to die (and to cause mass suffering among the crews of their enemies).


For what it's worth I would rather terrorists didn't have to die. I would much prefer to see them repay their debts to society.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#55 - 2014-01-26 18:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaven Lok'ri
Constantin Baracca wrote:



Obviously, they want each other to die (and to cause mass suffering among the crews of their enemies). It isn't necessary that they understand the violence in absolute terms; it makes being a soldier difficult. I can't hide that sometimes, when you're hearing about a few thousand people dying in a single day, it makes my skin crawl when we treat the warzone like some sort of game.


I grow ever more weary of your attempts to try and show that you understand the world better than those of us fighting to defend Amarr. I especially grow weary of your suggestions that we do not understand the violence we are involved in every day.

We are fully aware of the violence we contemplate, and we have a far better idea about why that violence is happening than you with your platitudes about peace. That violence happens because if it did not then Amarrians who have not volunteered for the defense of Amarr would die. I do not think that you understand what attaining peace means. Attaining peace means that the enemies of the outside have to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled. It means that the servants of Amarr must stand together behind our Empress, behind our institutions, our great Empire.

So long as we are at war with the Republic it is *every* Amarrian's duty to work to prosecute that war or to help Amarr survive that war. This idea that you can preach peace is rising above your station. It is claiming a role you do not have and indulging in free thought, which only brings disorder.

If the Empress calls for peace with the Republic, then we work for peace. Not until then.

But the war between the Republic and Empire is not the point of this thread, the point of this thread is the disbandment of an old organization hostile to Amarr that PIE Inc has been in conflict with since 108 YC. If you think our "banter" is juvenile, you are free to, but the fact is that I respect many of the foes that I have spent the last decade fighting far more than I respect someone who does not understand loyalty. They have proven that they are formidable threats to the Empire and that they believe in their cause enough to truly work to protect it.

That their cause is in fact evil is entirely beside the point. Those few former-EM members who remember when this fight started have the potential to make valuable assets for the Empire should it ever come to pass that they realize the falseness of their current path and accept the path of the Chosen. Given the curse of pod pilot immortality, they might even live long enough for that to happen.

Until then, we kill them when we see them so that they cannot harm Amarrians.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2014-01-26 20:49:46 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:



Obviously, they want each other to die (and to cause mass suffering among the crews of their enemies). It isn't necessary that they understand the violence in absolute terms; it makes being a soldier difficult. I can't hide that sometimes, when you're hearing about a few thousand people dying in a single day, it makes my skin crawl when we treat the warzone like some sort of game.


I grow ever more weary of your attempts to try and show that you understand the world better than those of us fighting to defend Amarr. I especially grow weary of your suggestions that we do not understand the violence we are involved in every day.

We are fully aware of the violence we contemplate, and we have a far better idea about why that violence is happening than you with your platitudes about peace. That violence happens because if it did not then Amarrians who have not volunteered for the defense of Amarr would die. I do not think that you understand what attaining peace means. Attaining peace means that the enemies of the outside have to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled. It means that the servants of Amarr must stand together behind our Empress, behind our institutions, our great Empire.

So long as we are at war with the Republic it is *every* Amarrian's duty to work to prosecute that war or to help Amarr survive that war. This idea that you can preach peace is rising above your station. It is claiming a role you do not have and indulging in free thought, which only brings disorder.

If the Empress calls for peace with the Republic, then we work for peace. Not until then.

But the war between the Republic and Empire is not the point of this thread, the point of this thread is the disbandment of an old organization hostile to Amarr that PIE Inc has been in conflict with since 108 YC. If you think our "banter" is juvenile, you are free to, but the fact is that I respect many of the foes that I have spent the last decade fighting far more than I respect someone who does not understand loyalty. They have proven that they are formidable threats to the Empire and that they believe in their cause enough to truly work to protect it.

That their cause is in fact evil is entirely beside the point. Those few former-EM members who remember when this fight started have the potential to make valuable assets for the Empire should it ever come to pass that they realize the falseness of their current path and accept the path of the Chosen. Given the curse of pod pilot immortality, they might even live long enough for that to happen.

Until then, we kill them when we see them so that they cannot harm Amarrians.


Your position towards my methods aren't unknown and, as far as I'm aware, haven't changed one way or the other. It's not entirely surprising, but I can't say I share your disgust for me in the reverse. I despise the concept of the war, and just because I understand why everyone there is fighting (and I truly do), that doesn't mean that I should accept that it is just or right.

The idea that you respect your enemies who have been fighting you honorably should be a very clear sign of what I mean. These aren't all bad people; they literally think precisely of you what you think of them. That you are the single greatest threat to their empire's people, that you want to do them harm. Obviously, you don't, you've always championed the Pax Amarria as long as I've known you.

But you can't stop the war. It is impossible. You will never deliver such a crushing blow that the Republic will disintegrate. The war will continue indefinitely due to the CEWPA, it's a gaping wound that won't heal. No amount of fighting infection will close it this way. You may not think my role here is worthwhile, but I think it is necessary that we can prove that the Amarr Empire isn't a conquering Empire bent on re-absorbing the Republic by force. As much as you would like to, I think honestly, say you do not find that to be our goal, the Republic has no reason to believe you. What they hear from their news sources, their neighbors, their fathers and mothers who grew up disliking us, isn't going to be proven incorrect by a soldier, no matter how honorable. It would be like me blustering about what a martial threat we are and how afraid they should be. It might be true, but why would anyone believe that from a priest whose mandate disallows him from even participating in that conflict?

I think I understand this conflict perfectly well, from both sides of our border. Simply because my opinion of the conflict from that perspective doesn't match yours or the former members of Gradient doesn't mean I just don't get it. I've come to respect both of you more than you might think. Enough to know neither of you has any chance of ever stopping the trickle of death on the part of both your crews. One of your great attributes, the lot of you, is your conviction. That conviction is a double edged sword that also makes you ineligible to deal with trying to defuse the tensions you take part in.

Life is a precious thing; something we should be valuing more than we are on paper. For all the talk of freeing slaves or protecting Amarrian lives, we're only killing free Matari and Amarrians in the warzone. Unfortunately, as you may have noticed, sometimes you're killing the best of the Republic as much as they're killing the best of us. The slavers and terrorists everyone is looking for don't fight in those pitched battles, they skulk behind lines waiting for opportunities to attack the defenseless.

You may dislike me, but I have to try my best to promote cross-cultural understanding and an end to the bloodshed. Feel free to denigrate me if that's what you feel is right. I have to follow my mandate as I can.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#57 - 2014-01-26 21:04:34 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

...I have to try my best to promote cross-cultural understanding .


I believe I've found the root of your problems, dear.


It has never been for the people of Amarr to promote 'cross cultural understanding.'

It has always been for the Amarr to impose others to understand our culture. At the point of a sword, the end of a rifle, or through the pages of scripture.

Our will upon others, not others' will upon us.


It's an old point to be making but most of the Empire's current failings stem from forgetting this simple truth.













Sabik now, Sabik forever
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#58 - 2014-01-26 22:03:25 UTC
Are you referring as an example to the Cultural Recess ?

Gaven Lok'ri wrote:

That their cause is in fact evil is entirely beside the point. Those few former-EM members who remember when this fight started have the potential to make valuable assets for the Empire should it ever come to pass that they realize the falseness of their current path and accept the path of the Chosen. Given the curse of pod pilot immortality, they might even live long enough for that to happen.


I hope you are aware that this works in both ways...
Meklon
Minmatar United Freedom Front
#59 - 2014-01-27 00:15:15 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:


Those few former-EM members who remember when this fight started have the potential to make valuable assets......




Even now you still try to treat us as cattle, or mere objects.

The only way I'll ever be an asset to your type will be if I rig several doomsday devices to one of my hulls and detonate the entire bloody thing into Amarr Prime.

Not sure how that's an asset to you exactly, but I don't care, the principle stands.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#60 - 2014-01-27 04:39:52 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

I believe I've found the root of your problems, dear.


It has never been for the people of Amarr to promote 'cross cultural understanding.'

It has always been for the Amarr to impose others to understand our culture. At the point of a sword, the end of a rifle, or through the pages of scripture.

Our will upon others, not others' will upon us.


It's an old point to be making but most of the Empire's current failings stem from forgetting this simple truth.


And how's that all worked out for you? The Jove spanked you and sent you packing at Vak'Atioth and we rose up and kicked you out of our space. You just got lucky at Mekhios in that your zombie queen happened upon some one-shot, one time use piece of technology and turned up just in the nick of time.

Anyway, why are you so big on defending the people who view you as a heretic and murderer?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.