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Non-Caldari missile ships for L4 missions?
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2014-01-21 19:17:11 UTC
Frankly, all I know about are the Raven, Golem, Nighthawk and Tengu. As a missile kind of guy, those are the ones I know about, and 3 of those I've flown. I still haven't got perfect skills for Tengu, so haven't bought or flown one of those yet.

Oh, yes, and Rattlesnake. Haven't bought that either. It also strikes me as more of a drone ship than primarily a missile ship.

What primarily-missile based ships can be used for L4 missions, other than the ones I've mentioned? Including any obscure Caldari ships that I may have overlooked, even?
Sid Crash
#2 - 2014-01-21 19:18:04 UTC
Phoon and Fleet Phoon are "better ravens".
stoicfaux
#3 - 2014-01-21 19:22:06 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Including any obscure Caldari ships that I may have overlooked, even?

CNR and SNI.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#4 - 2014-01-21 21:12:32 UTC
Asside from what's been mentioned:

You could use a command ship or a HAC for lvl4 missions. There are missile varients. They will have the tank but the DPS will be lackluster (it still works). As a T1 ship the Drake and the Cyclone are capable if not fun to fly in a L4.

You can also fit other T3s with missiles but they definitely do not shine with them. They will however finish L4 missions.

You could always throw a cruise armageddon out there, it's bonus is drones but you can throw some cruises up there. That's an obscure ship to fly.

Also assault frigates can do most L4 missions and some of those also use missiles. Though it is not really a fast or efficient way to mission. Make sure not to get webbed down.

Were you instead looking for missile ships that are efficient at running L4s?
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2014-01-22 08:59:19 UTC
Yes, I want reasonably efficient ships for L4. And missile-based.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-01-22 09:02:09 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Yes, I want reasonably efficient ships for L4. And missile-based.



Then you get back to the RNI and SNI.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#7 - 2014-01-22 09:07:07 UTC
I wouldn't exactly call the SNI 'efficient'. Actually, I'd call it a piece of crap but that's just my opinion. You should take RNI or Typhoon.

Oh god.
Treborr MintingtonJr
S.N.O.T
S.N.O.T.
#8 - 2014-01-22 09:39:49 UTC
I would recommend training in some drone skills and combine them with missile skills to fly the typhoon fleet issue.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#9 - 2014-01-22 10:07:29 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I wouldn't exactly call the SNI 'efficient'. Actually, I'd call it a piece of crap but that's just my opinion. You should take RNI or Typhoon.


That's harsh TBH. The SNI has a valid place in the order of progression IMHO. As it is so incredibly tanky, it's the perfect stepping stone for lower SP Caldari pilots on their way to an RNI.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#10 - 2014-01-22 10:19:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kairavi Mrithyakara
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
I wouldn't exactly call the SNI 'efficient'. Actually, I'd call it a piece of crap but that's just my opinion. You should take RNI or Typhoon.


That's harsh TBH. The SNI has a valid place in the order of progression IMHO. As it is so incredibly tanky, it's the perfect stepping stone for lower SP Caldari pilots on their way to an RNI.


Kind of expensive for a stepping stone, don't you think?

Standard Raven does L4s better than the SNI, seeing as it does missiles better and mounts a large enough tank to handle anything L4 pirates can throw at it.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#11 - 2014-01-22 12:02:57 UTC
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:

Kind of expensive for a stepping stone, don't you think?

Standard Raven does L4s better than the SNI, seeing as it does missiles better and mounts a large enough tank to handle anything L4 pirates can throw at it.


A valid point, well made.

The only observation I'd make is that both the Raven and the RNI really shine with more SPs. But yes, the Raven is very capable. Were I to use a standard Raven then I'd probably fit it like this:

[Raven, PVE]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
100MN Afterburner II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Hobgoblin II x5

1010 DPS 489 Mil ISK total cost. I suppose it depends on each person's pocket and wishes ultimately.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#12 - 2014-01-22 12:29:19 UTC
A full T1 Raven fit still returns 655 DPS (with T1 ammo and T1 drones) and only costs 320 Mil ISK:

[Raven, PVE - T1]
'Pandemonium' Ballistic Enhancement
'Pandemonium' Ballistic Enhancement
'Pandemonium' Ballistic Enhancement
'Pandemonium' Ballistic Enhancement
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin I x5

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#13 - 2014-01-22 13:03:43 UTC
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:
I would recommend training in some drone skills and combine them with missile skills to fly the typhoon fleet issue.


I do have all skillz for light drones maxed, but I want a ship that's primarily a missile boat.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-01-22 15:05:59 UTC
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
I wouldn't exactly call the SNI 'efficient'. Actually, I'd call it a piece of crap but that's just my opinion. You should take RNI or Typhoon.


That's harsh TBH. The SNI has a valid place in the order of progression IMHO. As it is so incredibly tanky, it's the perfect stepping stone for lower SP Caldari pilots on their way to an RNI.


Kind of expensive for a stepping stone, don't you think?

Standard Raven does L4s better than the SNI, seeing as it does missiles better and mounts a large enough tank to handle anything L4 pirates can throw at it.



In my humble opinion, I think you're wrong.

damage projection of an SNI is Higher than that of normal Raven, and on higher sp level the damage output will be higher as well, due to the extra midslot, CPU.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#15 - 2014-01-22 15:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Raven, Raven Navy Issue, Scorpion Navy Issue and Golem hulls have exactly the same number of effective launchers, and do exactly the same amount of DPS. The differences between the ships when speaking about PvE, are in damage projection, damage application and tanking.

SNI has a resist (tank) bonus.
Raven has a damage projection bonus.
CNR has damage projection and application bonuses.
Golem has damage projection (hull+bastion), damage application (explo vel+TP), tank (shield boost+bastion), ammo and looting bonuses.

If you fit for cruises, PvE effectiveness goes like this.

1. SNI is the easiest of the four to mission with, due to its exceptional tanking ability as well as its lowish skill requirement. Its strictly better for newer players, but you have to pay a lot for it.
2. Raven with do exactly the same job as an SNI, but will cost you a little (not much, due to a changes in tank module metas) less. You need more ingame skills and PvE knowledge for the standard raven due to its lower tank.
3. CNR will do a better job than a SNI or a T1 Raven, because it has a damage application bonus. It will cost you about the same as the SNI.
4. Golem with outdo them all, but will cost you a lot and you also will need to invest more skills for it to be as good.

That is all.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#16 - 2014-01-22 15:53:28 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Raven, Raven Navy Issue, Scorpion Navy Issue and Golem hulls have exactly the same number of effective launchers, and do exactly the same amount of DPS. The differences between the ships when speaking about PvE, are in damage projection, damage application and tanking.

Raven has a damage projection bonus.
CNR has damage projection and application bonuses.
SNI has a resist (tank) bonus.
Golem has damage projection (hull+bastion), damage application (explo vel+TP), tank (shield boost+bastion), ammo and looting bonuses.

That is all.


this is only if you have level 5 BS

other Advantage SNI have over RNI(CNR) is that it have high slot utility.

but RNI can use Torp much more effective than SNI.

it boil down which will get you isk faster
more dps or ability to salvage during battle.
Remember, now you can bring Mobile Tractor, it get easier for SNI pilot to salvage during battle.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#17 - 2014-01-22 15:57:10 UTC

Quote:
this is only if you have level 5 BS


Yes, I assume that going for T2 launchers and BS V is a prime priority. And it should if you want to spend a lot of time on missioning.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#18 - 2014-01-22 17:36:40 UTC
So assuming I've got all relevant skillz (including Marauders) trained to 5, a cruise Golem is better than a cruise RNI?

(I tried a corp Golem once - total disaster. I need long-range missiles.)
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#19 - 2014-01-22 18:08:35 UTC
I personally like the CNR (RNI). I also tried a Golem at one point, but I most likely was doing it wrong. CNR actually killed things faster for me.

At some point, you will want to do missions faster. I've been told that a Nightmare is faster and the Mach is even faster than that. (Both gunships) Both can use your shield skills though.
I do missions when I want to *chill, but stay active* So speed isn't my first priority.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#20 - 2014-01-22 18:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Salpad wrote:
So assuming I've got all relevant skillz (including Marauders) trained to 5, a cruise Golem is better than a cruise RNI?


It depends really on the way you are flying. The Golem can match and exceed the CNR in mission turnaround and isk/hr, you have to fly it very differently though, and do more micro. Both ships are very good for missions due to their ability to use all damage types (without fuckery like kinetic only bonuses etc).

If you really want to factor in skill and isk cost / effectiveness, CNR comes first.
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