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This is Eve . Wow.
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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#81 - 2011-11-09 02:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Note: I am replying to the OP, and have not read anything else in the thread.

WoW is a fantasy game, based upon a series that has been around for a long time and had a large fanbase before WoW came to exist.


EVE is a scifi game (low profitability in general), and did not have a previous product to draw fans from.

So really, EVE has come much further than WoW ever did.


I'm not sure how well WoW would do if it wasn't for its original fanbase and the obsession with fantasy.




Personally, I would be content with EVE having 50k-100k active players. Enough to make CCP money, not too much to make space too crowded (though at 100k it would be pretty bad in the hubs).
K Suri
Doomheim
#82 - 2011-11-09 02:19:36 UTC
Leetha Layne wrote:
More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?

The music store provides both. They also have Slash, Black Sabbath, Beethoven and Marina Pryor.

The more options, the greater the sales don't you think?
K Suri
Doomheim
#83 - 2011-11-09 02:22:14 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Look at this frakking chart

There is only ONE.

One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone.

That MMO is EVE.

Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online.

Now back at EVE.

There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one.

Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing.

I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me.



Find a game that's vertical in ascension that is not either:

-Kiddy stuff (Dofus, maplestory, etc)
-Not a game (Second Life)
-Asia-focused (Lineage, Aion)

You can't because that would be lying. And that's horrible.

And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one."

Wow isn't even on the chart.

That's lying. And that's horrible.
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#84 - 2011-11-09 02:24:16 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Leetha Layne wrote:
More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?

The music store provides both. They also have Slash, Black Sabbath, Beethoven and Marina Pryor.

The more options, the greater the sales don't you think?


They would make even more money if they started pedeling meth out back aswell, The more options, the greater the sales don't you think?
K Suri
Doomheim
#85 - 2011-11-09 02:29:51 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Note: I am replying to the OP, and have not read anything else in the thread.

WoW is a fantasy game, based upon a series that has been around for a long time and had a large fanbase before WoW came to exist.

EVE is a scifi game (low profitability in general), and did not have a previous product to draw fans from.

So really, EVE has come much further than WoW ever did.

I'm not sure how well WoW would do if it wasn't for its original fanbase and the obsession with fantasy.

Personally, I would be content with EVE having 50k-100k active players. Enough to make CCP money, not too much to make space too crowded (though at 100k it would be pretty bad in the hubs).

And that is not going to happen if we keep being blind to what Eve COULD be if we diffused some of the myths and stubborness around things like suicide ganking as being "neccessary" to maintain the playerbase.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of changes being bought to Eve in the new WE is mostly to the benefit of players already playing. We either need something pretty significant to entice more players or we need to accept that the subscriber numbers may stay close to static from here on in.

Seriously, most of the changes coming have been done to KEEP the playerbase. What they WERE doing was trying to grow a NEW playerbase. This bit is so often overlooked it beggars belief.

CCP needs ways to attract NEW players AND keep and entertain the older ones. The older ones are the ones PREVENTING this.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2011-11-09 02:30:21 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Look at this frakking chart

There is only ONE.

One MMO where subs grow at a nearly constant linear rate. One MMO that is not either kiddy stuff (Dofus, Runescape) or a WOW clone.

That MMO is EVE.

Now look at the WOW clones/killlers like Age of Conan and Warhammer Online.

Now back at EVE.

There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one.

Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing.

I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me.



Find a game that's vertical in ascension that is not either:

-Kiddy stuff (Dofus, maplestory, etc)
-Not a game (Second Life)
-Asia-focused (Lineage, Aion)

You can't because that would be lying. And that's horrible.

And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one."

Wow isn't even on the chart.

That's lying. And that's horrible.


Wow is on the 1-12million chart with the asian MMOS and kiddy **** (Runescape)
CHART

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
K Suri
Doomheim
#87 - 2011-11-09 02:30:45 UTC
Gazmin VanBurin wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Leetha Layne wrote:
More people listen to Justin Beiber than Stravinsky. Does that mean Beiber is better?

The music store provides both. They also have Slash, Black Sabbath, Beethoven and Marina Pryor.

The more options, the greater the sales don't you think?


They would make even more money if they started pedeling meth out back aswell, The more options, the greater the sales don't you think?

I've always got my meth from the music shop. You?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2011-11-09 02:32:01 UTC
K Suri wrote:
And that is not going to happen if we keep being blind to what Eve COULD be if we diffused some of the myths and stubborness around things like suicide ganking as being "neccessary" to maintain the playerbase.

Does your crystal ball work for lottery numbers? Or is it just for making biased predictions about internet spaceship games?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
K Suri
Doomheim
#89 - 2011-11-09 02:34:39 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Wow is on the 1-12million chart with the asian MMOS and kiddy **** (Runescape)
CHART

Exactly. So how can a game on a completely different chart be used as a subscriber comparison?

In fact that's highlighted my point. Wow is "off the chart" insofar as subs versus Eve. And it's the reason I'm asking. Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?
Lens Thirring
#90 - 2011-11-09 02:34:52 UTC
K Suri wrote:

And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one."

Wow isn't even on the chart.

That's lying. And that's horrible.

Look at the scale on the y-axis. Now look up at the ceiling. That's where the WoW points are.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#91 - 2011-11-09 02:38:22 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Wow is on the 1-12million chart with the asian MMOS and kiddy **** (Runescape)
CHART

Exactly. So how can a game on a completely different chart be used as a subscriber comparison?

In fact that's highlighted my point. Wow is "off the chart" insofar as subs versus Eve. And it's the reason I'm asking. Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?


The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#92 - 2011-11-09 02:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrapyard Bob
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
K Suri wrote:


Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen.


The average age that plays WoW is 13years old.

The average age that plays EVE is 35years old +.

WoW is a game for the uneducated masses (The Mist of Pandoria - Kung-fu Panda anyone?)

EVE is a niche game (Sci-Fi meets Slasher films).

'Nuff said.

/thread


From a not-so-scientific poll on a forum:
32% were 25 or under
23% in the 26-30 range
19% in the 31-35 range
26% were 36 or older (16% 41 or older)

Average age is roughly 33.6 years old according to that completely non-scientific poll (n=426).
K Suri
Doomheim
#93 - 2011-11-09 02:40:20 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
K Suri wrote:
And that is not going to happen if we keep being blind to what Eve COULD be if we diffused some of the myths and stubborness around things like suicide ganking as being "neccessary" to maintain the playerbase.

Does your crystal ball work for lottery numbers? Or is it just for making biased predictions about internet spaceship games?

Funny your should say that. A few years ago I saw logins of 48-50k. I'm STILL seeing logins at 48-50k.

The arguments against ANY change (such as suicide ganking) is stifling development.

Is a crystal ball really needed? As I also pointed out , CCP has had to change direction to KEEP the base. What they were doing to GROW the base was shelved by, you guessed it, players that didn't want CHANGE.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2011-11-09 02:40:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.

If you look at K Suri's posts it looks like that's exactly what he is asking for. I guess he never heard of Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2011-11-09 02:42:24 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Is a crystal ball really needed?

It's certainly not needed when (based on your posting history) it's easier to just make **** up and post it as a fact.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2011-11-09 02:43:01 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.

If you look at K Suri's posts it looks like that's exactly what he is asking for. I guess he never heard of Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE.



Now that you mention it, the fact that Sony is involved, if only mildly, with Dust 514 makes me doubt about the game's future.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
K Suri
Doomheim
#97 - 2011-11-09 02:44:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?


The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.

You not getting my point yet?

"it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."

It HASN'T happened with this mindset.
It WON'T happen with this mindset.

It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2011-11-09 02:46:29 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?


The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.

You not getting my point yet?

"it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."

It HASN'T happened with this mindset.
It WON'T happen with this mindset.

It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.

If CCP made ganking impossible tomorrow why do you think subscriptions would substantially improve?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
K Suri
Doomheim
#99 - 2011-11-09 02:47:33 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Is a crystal ball really needed?

It's certainly not needed when (based on your posting history) it's easier to just make **** up and post it as a fact.

Not been reading Eve-O? I'm regurgitating several threads by several people over these issues. Nothing is posted as fact, just like your dissertation that I'm making **** up, you're making just as much **** up to refute my ****.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2011-11-09 02:50:27 UTC
K Suri wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
K Suri wrote:
Could you safely provide for a "wowlike" experience in highsec without affecting the game intent, history or attraction?


The answer is no, it is not possible wih the resources CCP have available, and it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different.

You not getting my point yet?

"it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."

It HASN'T happened with this mindset.
It WON'T happen with this mindset.

It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.



If EVE was more like WOW, this cool promo video would fail at exactly 0:30 seconds and then we'd be stuck with 2:19 of a guy shooting a rock with a laser

 Though All Men Do Despise Us