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[Feedback] Most Useless Module of EVE Nomination
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Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#1 - 2014-01-20 01:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
While I was browsing the market, I noticed two modules I had, for some reason, seldom ever seen used. The modules in question were Layered Plating and Energized Armor Layering Membranes, and it didn't take long for me to realize why... They're probably some of the least useful module types in the entire game.

I could tell this just by looking at the statistics, but I thought to myself, "hey, why not do the math". And so I did. I got out my local neighborhood fitting tool, loaded an empty Apocalypse fitting, and got to work.


Base Hull (w/ Damage Control II and Large Armor Repairer II)
>15,250 eHP
>142.5 eHP/s
>97,100,000kg Mass

Base Hull + 1 Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
>17,538 eHP (+15%)
>142.5 eHP/s (+0%)
>97,100,000kg Mass (+0%)

Base Hull + 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
>20,334 eHP (+33.4%)
>190 eHP/s (+33.4%)
>97,100,000kg Mass (+0%)


These numbers speak for themselves. Not only is the armor HP bonus for the Energized Armor Layering Membrane lower than the resistance bonus for the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, but due to the way resistances are calculated a resistance bonus is greater than an armor HP bonus of the same amount, so this results in Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes being far superior, especially due to the fact they affect effective repair amounts as well.

Of course, Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes do use 20% more CPU. Surely that counts for something, right? Oh, if only. But Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes have a relative called Adaptive Nano Plating that uses no CPU whatsoever. How does it compare to the CPU-guzzling Energized Armor Layering Membrane? Let's find out...


Base Hull + 1 Adaptive Nano Plating II
>18,874 eHP (+23.7%)
>176.4 eHP/s (+23.7%)
>97,100,000kg Mass (+0%)


Not nearly as effective as their big brother, the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, but still more effective than the Energized Armor Layering Membrane, even though they use no CPU and also increase effective repair rate. Energized Armor Layering Membranes have their own non-CPU using relatives. Layered Plating. Let's see how that compares.


Base Hull + 1 Layered Plating II
>16,470 eHP (+8%)
>142.5 eHP/s (+0%)
>97,100,000kg Mass (+0%)


...Really poorly, apparently. But surely, comparing them to just Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes and Adaptive Nano Plating is a poor comparison. I mean, those aren't the only armor modules, right? So let's compare them to Armor Plates, I'm sure that will be more fair...


Base Hull + 1 400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
>17,864 eHP (+17.1%)
>142.5 eHP/s (+0%)
>97,381,250kg Mass (+0.2%)

Base Hull + 1 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
>20,479 eHP (+34.2%)
>142.5 eHP/s (+0%)
>98,225,000kg Mass (+1.1%)

Base Hull + 1 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
>25,708 eHP (+68.6%)
>142.5 eHP/s (+0%)
>99,912,500kg Mass (+2.8%)


...Or not. Sadly, it would seem that there is no situation in which Energized Armor Layering Membranes or Layered Plating are superior choices. Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes and even Adaptive Nano Plating are clearly superior choices on ships of all sizes, and even undersized Armor Plates are better at providing raw HP, with marginal mass addition and powergrid usage. There are literally no circumstances in which these "armor layering" modules are superior to other armor modules. Thus, I would like to nominate them for the most useless module in EVE Online. If you can find a more useless module type, I will applaud you.

Edit: The most useless does not mean the most impractical.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Zircon Dasher
#2 - 2014-01-20 01:47:22 UTC
Does the "New Topic" button count?

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#3 - 2014-01-20 01:49:43 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Does the "New Topic" button count?

Is that a ship module?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-01-20 01:54:31 UTC
A bonus to raw armor can be useful in some situations where your resistances are maxed out and hitting the limit. If you have 2 A-type nanos, armor fleet booster, and bastion/siege, there is little point in stacking more resists on. At that point, raw HP acts simply as buffer, especially on capitals/super-capitals. It is not very useful, but it does HAVE a use.

What is really useless is defender missiles.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#5 - 2014-01-20 01:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
What is really useless is defender missiles.

That's a charge, not a module, so I'm afraid that can't be nominated for most useless module.

Also, like you said about armor layering, Defender Missiles aren't very useful, but they do have a use.

Also, show me a fit that uses armor layering modules, and I'll show you a fit that would work better without them.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#6 - 2014-01-20 02:17:10 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
A bonus to raw armor can be useful in some situations where your resistances are maxed out and hitting the limit. If you have 2 A-type nanos, armor fleet booster, and bastion/siege, there is little point in stacking more resists on. At that point, raw HP acts simply as buffer, especially on capitals/super-capitals. It is not very useful, but it does HAVE a use.

A good point; capital ships are tanky enough that even the largest Armor Plates offer woefully inadequate protection. Layered Plating is pretty much the only sensible way to add raw HP to a capital.

That said, I think OP is making an unfair comparison. Layered Plating, like a number of similar modules, doesn't really compete with main-line defensive modules like the EANM directly; if you only have one spot free for a defensive module, it's probably going to be the EANM. But EVE fittings seldom work like that; you usually stack defensive modules... and then run into stacking penalties; the second EANM isn't as effective as the first, so the EANM is intended to compete against a marginal, stacking-penalized defense module, not a main-line defense module.

Also... doesn't Layered Plating also increase the armor bonus from plates? Accordingly, shouldn't there be some combination of plates + resists that makes the ehp increase from an (energized?) Layered Plating better than the marginal increase you'd get from another Armor Plate // EANM?



Felsusguy wrote:
Defender Missiles aren't very useful, but they do have a use.

Debatable, given how difficult it is to actually apply them. Given the topic of the thread is "Most Useless Module", the idea of some modules being more or less useful than others is implied. And in that context, a launcher loaded with Defender Missiles is more useless than almost any module you could name.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-01-20 02:28:13 UTC
Do defender missiles actually work? I thought they were completely broken.

I nominate the small sentry damage augmenter I & II rigs.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#8 - 2014-01-20 02:31:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Endovior wrote:
Also... doesn't Layered Plating also increase the armor bonus from plates? Accordingly, shouldn't there be some combination of plates + resists that makes the ehp increase from an (energized?) Layered Plating better than the marginal increase you'd get from another Armor Plate // EANM?

I've tried finding a combination that benefits more from an armor layering module, even just one, than a different module, but I couldn't find any on a ship with less than 8 low slots. And while it's true that adaptive nano membranes suffer from high stacking penalties if you use too many, it's also true that if you're using that many adaptive nano membranes you might as well be using multiple type-specific resistance modules as well.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
sabastyian
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#9 - 2014-01-20 02:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: sabastyian
I use the Energized layering plate on my dread and super, if neuted out and you only have a few passive mods, those last low slots are perfect to get an extra 15% armor boost with a slave clone, slot 10 and damantion bonuses.

Felsusguy wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
What is really useless is defender missiles.

That's a charge, not a module, so I'm afraid that can't be nominated for most useless module.

Also, like you said about armor layering, Defender Missiles aren't very useful, but they do have a use.

Also, show me a fit that uses armor layering modules, and I'll show you a fit that would work better without them.


[Aeon, Main - Combat]
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
Damage Control II

Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Capital Coaxial Remote Armor Repairer
Capital Coaxial Remote Armor Repairer
Capital Murky Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Capital Murky Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Remote ECM Burst I
Dark Blood Large EMP Smartbomb

Capital Trimark Armor Pump II
Capital Trimark Armor Pump II
Capital Trimark Armor Pump II

Tyrfing x5
Cyclops x5
Mantis x5
Malleus x5
Templar x10
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#10 - 2014-01-20 03:14:14 UTC
sabastyian wrote:
I use the Energized layering plate on my dread and super, if neuted out and you only have a few passive mods, those last low slots are perfect to get an extra 15% armor boost with a slave clone, slot 10 and damantion bonuses.

Felsusguy wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
What is really useless is defender missiles.

That's a charge, not a module, so I'm afraid that can't be nominated for most useless module.

Also, like you said about armor layering, Defender Missiles aren't very useful, but they do have a use.

Also, show me a fit that uses armor layering modules, and I'll show you a fit that would work better without them.


[Aeon, Main - Combat]
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II
Damage Control II

Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Capital Coaxial Remote Armor Repairer
Capital Coaxial Remote Armor Repairer
Capital Murky Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Capital Murky Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Remote ECM Burst I
Dark Blood Large EMP Smartbomb

Capital Trimark Armor Pump II
Capital Trimark Armor Pump II
Capital Trimark Armor Pump II

Tyrfing x5
Cyclops x5
Mantis x5
Malleus x5
Templar x10

Congratulations, you've proven me partially wrong. You could replace the Armor Layering Membrane with a Reactive Armor Hardener, though. You'll lose almost no eHP, your effective repair rate from remote repairers would increase by over 10% and your resistance would shift to become more effective if facing off against an enemy using uneven damage types, even if it does rely more on capacitor. So I guess it depends. For most ships, though, there's not really a choice to use armor layering.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kesthely
Mestana
#11 - 2014-01-20 03:20:18 UTC
To me the most useless module is the Auto targeting system II

On a personal note, i find ALL mining lasers useless too, but i believe many others find them usefull ;)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#12 - 2014-01-20 03:25:49 UTC
Are nominations still open? I'm going to suggest the new rapid light and rapid heavy missile launchers.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#13 - 2014-01-20 03:26:57 UTC
Kesthely wrote:
To me the most useless module is the Auto targeting system II

On a personal note, i find ALL mining lasers useless too, but i believe many others find them usefull ;)

Mining lasers are useful because they let you do something you would otherwise be unable to do. So while you might not have a use for them, they are still useful to you. Similarly, the auto-targeting system is useful because it does do something that no other module can: it increases the maximum locked targets you can have. You might not have a use for it, but it could still be useful to you in some way.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
TheMercenaryKing
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-01-20 03:27:19 UTC
Cloaking device

wait, you said useless not most broken....

hmm, i would have to go with Citadel Torpedo launchers, until they fix capitals and increase their explosion velocity.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#15 - 2014-01-20 03:30:32 UTC
every variant above the meta 0 Auto Targeting System I

I think shield flux coils and capacitor flux coils are unilaterally worse than shield power relays and capacitor power relays, too

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#16 - 2014-01-20 03:30:35 UTC
I'm disappointed at how few people realize this isn't a thread for them to nominate the most useless module, but rather a thread about my nomination for the most useless module. If you want to nominate something, make your own thread.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#17 - 2014-01-20 03:31:32 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
I'm disappointed at how few people realize this isn't a thread for them to nominate the most useless module, but rather a thread about my nomination for the most useless module. If you want to nominate something, make your own thread.
Felsusguy wrote:
If you can find a more useless module type, I will applaud you.

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#18 - 2014-01-20 03:36:12 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
I'm disappointed at how few people realize this isn't a thread for them to nominate the most useless module, but rather a thread about my nomination for the most useless module. If you want to nominate something, make your own thread.
Felsusguy wrote:
If you can find a more useless module type, I will applaud you.

And so far no one has been successful.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-01-20 03:38:17 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Nicen Jehr wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
I'm disappointed at how few people realize this isn't a thread for them to nominate the most useless module, but rather a thread about my nomination for the most useless module. If you want to nominate something, make your own thread.
Felsusguy wrote:
If you can find a more useless module type, I will applaud you.

And so far no one has been successful.


Small sentry drone damage rigs.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#20 - 2014-01-20 03:41:14 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Nicen Jehr wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
I'm disappointed at how few people realize this isn't a thread for them to nominate the most useless module, but rather a thread about my nomination for the most useless module. If you want to nominate something, make your own thread.
Felsusguy wrote:
If you can find a more useless module type, I will applaud you.

And so far no one has been successful.


Small sentry drone damage rigs.

Those might be impractical, but at least they do something that other rigs don't. That automatically makes them somewhat useful, even if it doesn't make them practical.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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