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What to do in a Corporation?

Author
Keno Skir
#41 - 2014-01-22 15:04:10 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Recruitment channel is just a mess of spam adverts every 20 seconds by the same people, which is clearly a sign they recruit for 1 reason, more numbers in their corp / more tax income for the leadership.


Excellent point.

I also tend to think (although it is by no means a flat rule) that the majority of corporations with 0% tax are showing their desperation for new members. 0% tax might soun nice, but what are they likely to be able to do to expand and help their membership with no corporate income? As mentioned there are other / better ways to raise income, this is just my experience.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#42 - 2014-01-22 15:55:15 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:

I also tend to think (although it is by no means a flat rule) that the majority of corporations with 0% tax are showing their desperation for new members. 0% tax might soun nice, but what are they likely to be able to do to expand and help their membership with no corporate income? As mentioned there are other / better ways to raise income, this is just my experience.


I cant really agree with this.
Maybe its true for brand new corporations that are looking for mainly new players and are trying to use the 0% tax as a way to lure in people who are tired of the tax in an NPC corp, but for most established corporations the corp tax makes up so little of their income (unless they set a very high tax rate and have nothing but mission runners and ratters) that the tax is almost completely pointless.

However having a tax rate makes it very easy to see who is doing mission/ratting and where they are doing it so it does have some other uses Smile
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-01-22 16:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:

I also tend to think (although it is by no means a flat rule) that the majority of corporations with 0% tax are showing their desperation for new members. 0% tax might soun nice, but what are they likely to be able to do to expand and help their membership with no corporate income? As mentioned there are other / better ways to raise income, this is just my experience.


I cant really agree with this.
Maybe its true for brand new corporations that are looking for mainly new players and are trying to use the 0% tax as a way to lure in people who are tired of the tax in an NPC corp, but for most established corporations the corp tax makes up so little of their income (unless they set a very high tax rate and have nothing but mission runners and ratters) that the tax is almost completely pointless.

However having a tax rate makes it very easy to see who is doing mission/ratting and where they are doing it so it does have some other uses Smile


This.

For settled corporations that are build up with a solid leadership. The income likely doesn't come from taxes (or at least not from taxes alone).

The corp could have someone who builds and sells stuff on behalf of the corp.
The corp could have a corporate-trader that generates the income.
Or, the corp can have sugar daddies, aka members who don't mind donating some ISK to the corp when they have the chance.


The thing to watch out for in a corporation you are part of:

Why do they take taxes of your earned money?
Are they using the money made by their members to benefit the members (either directly or with a future goal - they have a solid foundation on HOW to get there and WHEN they expect to reach it).


In one of my former corporations we had an "official" treasurer. Regularly (usually every 2 / 3 - can't remember - months) he did sent out a mail or had a TS3 meeting with the corp, to explain where the corp was and where it was going financially.
He wasn't going reporting that we have bought "x" of an item for "y" amount of ISK. But he gave a general overview on income and expanses. And if we were making money, what it was going to be used for in the (near) future and what said goal was approximately going to cost the corp.

This made sure that the corp members knew what the corp was doing, how they were doing and what they why they were contributing with their tax payments / donations.

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Snifnix Padecain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-01-22 17:00:23 UTC
Just recently started playing, and from a high sec perspective I have to say I think OP has a point. Seems to me it's tricky to find good practical reasons to join a corp, but some rather substantial reasons why you shouldn't.

Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?

I'm currently in the process of considering my own future in or outside a corp, and so I browse and talk to a lot of recruiting corps. I have been quite surprised to see just how many tiny corps there are. Many have maybe 3, 4, 5 members that typically know each other from before. When I ask them why they don't do more to grow a little, like merge, they say that the risk is simply too great . I thought maybe they're being overly paranoid, but as it turns out that's not just unwarranted fear.

I was recently interviewed by one of these small corps at the same time as another player. That player was accepted while I'm still thinking about it hanging out in the recruitment channel. The day after, the CEO could tell me that the player had held him for ransom while in his freighter moving the players stuff in high sec space. Luckily this particular episode had a happy ending for the CEO, but it certainly highlighted the problem for me; When you have 2 wannabe bad ass ninjas for every 1 straight shooter, and the mechanics favor the ninjas, you get a problem establishing structure and that includes social structure which is fairly essential in a MMORPG.

I don't know that the CEO deserve this kind of nonsensical stuff to be stacked against him when he is in fact trying to establish something that would probably enhance and distill the game experience for a lot of people. And I don't think implementing say a 'push this button for consensual practice PvP' or whatever in high sec, would make EvE a game for carebears.
Piracy and shenanigans produces tension and excitement, but when it becomes so prevalent it dominates everything else, it just turns into parody and boredom.
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-01-22 17:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Snifnix Padecain wrote:
Just recently started playing, and from a high sec perspective I have to say I think OP has a point. Seems to me it's tricky to find good practical reasons to join a corp, but some rather substantial reasons why you shouldn't.

Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?

I'm currently in the process of considering my own future in or outside a corp, and so I browse and talk to a lot of recruiting corps. I have been quite surprised to see just how many tiny corps there are. Many have maybe 3, 4, 5 members that typically know each other from before. When I ask them why they don't do more to grow a little, like merge, they say that the risk is simply too great . I thought maybe they're being overly paranoid, but as it turns out that's not just unwarranted fear.

I was recently interviewed by one of these small corps at the same time as another player. That player was accepted while I'm still thinking about it hanging out in the recruitment channel. The day after, the CEO could tell me that the player had held him for ransom while in his freighter moving the players stuff in high sec space. Luckily this particular episode had a happy ending for the CEO, but it certainly highlighted the problem for me; When you have 2 wannabe bad ass ninjas for every 1 straight shooter, and the mechanics favor the ninjas, you get a problem establishing structure and that includes social structure which is fairly essential in a MMORPG.

I don't know that the CEO deserve this kind of nonsensical stuff to be stacked against him when he is in fact trying to establish something that would probably enhance and distill the game experience for a lot of people. And I don't think implementing say a 'push this button for consensual practice PvP' or whatever in high sec, would make EvE a game for carebears.
Piracy and shenanigans produces tension and excitement, but when it becomes so prevalent it dominates everything else, it just turns into parody and boredom.


3 things that spot my attention:

1. In corp or not...anybody can shoot you, anywhere. Even in law enforced space.

2. Again judging all corps in EVE over 1 single incident. If EVE corp live was that bad, there wouldnt be that many real corps (not counting an alt corp nor holding corps).

3. The button for consentual PvP DOES change EVE majorly. By saying it doesnt shows how little knowledge you have (yet) about the game. What make EVE to be different then any of the WoW family MMOs, because its a harsh and different setting. That button will turn it into carebear heaven as those people will become untouchable.


Edit:

And corp member hostility if you ever come across it when you enter a corp...you should have done your research before joining as that is easily found out.

If later on by a new recruit, talk to leadership and likely they will make arrangements (kick member and possible refund).

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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#46 - 2014-01-22 17:35:29 UTC
Snifnix Padecain

While i can understand your worry i think you also have gotten a.. worse impression then most people do.
Im going to assume this is because you have talked to a lot of smaller corporations that dont have the experience needed to pick up on the most obvious signs that a recruit is "bad", and of course, it happens once and then you become even more paranoid and you get more nervous about recruiting.

Your numbers with 2 bad ones against 1 good one just does not make much sense to me. Having done recruiting for years i can honestly say that the numbers are far far from that bad and in general there are more "good guys" then "bad guys" that try to join the corporation.
Of course i can believe that these numbers are higher for young and small corporations because they would seem like "easier" targets that are more likely to accept anyone, thus less chance that they will get turned down.

Now for why its like this..
EVE is risky, every single aspect of it is risky. Thats what makes it hard to run a corp, but also very rewarding for those that accomplish it. Suddenly the corp "means" something, both to the CEO and the members, and you become very loyal because you had to put real work into it. You become "dependent" on your corp members, and over time you learn to trust them (which is ironic since you shouldent trust anyone in EVE).
If there was less/no risks involved with running a corp, or recruiting, this wouldent happen in my opinion.

And honestly, recruiting would be dead boring if there was no risks to it at all Lol

So, here is my advice.
Both me and someone else linked a "guide" earlier in this thread about the pros and cons about joining a corporation and your other options. If you still want to join a corp look for older corporations that are more established and take their stories into account before you make up your mind completely.
Im pretty sure you will find that while most corporations have had their shares of thiefs/awoxers/whatever, most older corporations have learned from their mistakes, and while they have become more careful, they dont let it hinder the corps growth or ability to evolve.
Marcus Avon
New Eden Fedo Lovers Society
#47 - 2014-01-22 19:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Avon
Snifnix Padecain wrote:
Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?


I always thought that this particular rule made absolutely no sense at all. I think its only there - against all common sense - to ensure that awoxers and traitors can party properly. And yes, its a very good reason to avoid joining a corp, probably not the primary one for me, but certainly high on the list.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#48 - 2014-01-22 20:22:44 UTC
Marcus Avon wrote:
Snifnix Padecain wrote:
Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?


I always thought that this particular rule made absolutely no sense at all. I think its only there - against all common sense - to ensure that awoxers and traitors can party properly. And yes, its a very good reason to avoid joining a corp.


There are benefits to this as well.

1. Many corps train their members by dueling with each other (usually not to the death). Fortunately, this can be done in high sec with the current rules.

2. Other important uses for intra-corp aggression. Webbing freighters for example. (This is the practice of applying a web to a slow ship to reduce the amount of time it takes them to accelerate to warp). It wouldn't make any sense to require a "duel" for this purpose.

But honestly I have no problem with the possibility for awoxing. The current system drives player-driven content, rather than "court-mandated" safety. The fact that you have to trust your corp-mates is more realistic to the "last frontier" vibe that is the core sentiment of EVE. And there are plenty of precautions that one can take to avoid getting burned. New corp-members must prove their loyalty over time before I will trust them around anything expensive. And to me, that's as it should be.

Granted it's a bit more of a problem for industrial corps or small corps that don't have the player pool to deal with awoxers effectively. That's why small corps tend to be ultra-paranoid about who they let in, as noted by one of the previous posters. And yes it's a risk. But really, how fun would it be if everyone was forced to get along Big smile

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Oraac Ensor
#49 - 2014-01-22 20:48:01 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

1. In corp or not...anybody can shoot you, anywhere. Even in law enforced space.

Irrelevant:
Snifnix Padecain wrote:
Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?

NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#50 - 2014-01-22 21:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: NightCrawler 85
*Edited since im an idiot and completely misunderstood the post in question Lol*
Oraac Ensor
#51 - 2014-01-22 21:42:58 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Snifnix Padecain wrote:
Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?



This was talked about/commented on/defended here:

NightCrawler 85 wrote:

Now for why its like this..
EVE is risky, every single aspect of it is risky. Thats what makes it hard to run a corp, but also very rewarding for those that accomplish it. Suddenly the corp "means" something, both to the CEO and the members, and you become very loyal because you had to put real work into it. You become "dependent" on your corp members, and over time you learn to trust them (which is ironic since you shouldent trust anyone in EVE).
If there was less/no risks involved with running a corp, or recruiting, this wouldent happen in my opinion.

And honestly, recruiting would be dead boring if there was no risks to it at all Lol


And then again here;

Cara Forelli wrote:

There are benefits to this as well.

1. Many corps train their members by dueling with each other (usually not to the death). Fortunately, this can be done in high sec with the current rules.

2. Other important uses for intra-corp aggression. Webbing freighters for example. (This is the practice of applying a web to a slow ship to reduce the amount of time it takes them to accelerate to warp). It wouldn't make any sense to require a "duel" for this purpose.


Besides, if you suddenly removed this EVE professions like awoxing and similar would disappear, and while many dont like the people that have these professions, or what they stand for, its still a valid game mechanic just like theft, scamming, baiting, war decs and so on.
And like with all "bad" things in EVE, it can be avoided to a high extent if you do research, and don't trust anyone who is willing to join your corp after a 5 minute conversation Smile

Why are you quoting my quote out of context?

I was pointing out that J'Poll's comment about non-corpmates being able to shoot (with consequences) was irrelevant to Snifnix Padecain's post regarding corpmate's abiltity to do it with impunity.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#52 - 2014-01-22 22:20:34 UTC
Oraac Ensor

Ah sorry that was my mistake! I thought you quoted that to point out that it really was not answered in any way or form Oops
Marcus Avon
New Eden Fedo Lovers Society
#53 - 2014-01-22 22:55:22 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
There are benefits to this as well.

1. Many corps train their members by dueling with each other (usually not to the death). Fortunately, this can be done in high sec with the current rules.

2. Other important uses for intra-corp aggression. Webbing freighters for example. (This is the practice of applying a web to a slow ship to reduce the amount of time it takes them to accelerate to warp). It wouldn't make any sense to require a "duel" for this purpose.


I wasn't actually aware of these benefits and that does make a big difference. Its always easier to accept a rule if there appears to be some sort of underlying logic behind it and I honestly couldn't think of any reasoning for intra-corp aggression besides "it makes it easier for awoxers to screw you".

That being said, almost all aspects of the benefits you mentioned can currently be handled using the existing dueling mechanic. The exception would be multi-player battles. At least with a duel you know you are about to get into a fight, even if your opponent tries to go further than they agreed to. With the intra-corp aggression rules on the other hand, you can be attacked any time, any where when you least expect it.

To me this sounds like a very good reason to steer clear of joining a corp, at least until I can easily afford to be ambushed and killed by a corp mate at the worst possible time.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#54 - 2014-01-22 22:55:31 UTC
Snifnix Padecain wrote:
Just recently started playing, and from a high sec perspective I have to say I think OP has a point. Seems to me it's tricky to find good practical reasons to join a corp, but some rather substantial reasons why you shouldn't.

Corp Offices for sharing assets and easy congregational places.
Ability to deploy a POS (very important for S&I toons).
Shared standings, bookmarks, & enemies
Generally, this is an MMO where you can accomplish more, and are harder to push around as you and your friends grow in numbers. That's a MAJOR reason to join a corp.

Snifnix Padecain wrote:

Take for instance this 'corp members can freely shoot you' deal. How is that even a coherent system in any respect? Suddenly you're a member of the same organization so law doesn't apply anymore even in law enforced space?

There are benefits as well as drawbacks to being in a corp:
You can shoot each other (which is a good and bad thing).
You can partake in wardecs (which is a good and bad thing).

Snifnix Padecain wrote:

I'm currently in the process of considering my own future in or outside a corp, and so I browse and talk to a lot of recruiting corps. I have been quite surprised to see just how many tiny corps there are. Many have maybe 3, 4, 5 members that typically know each other from before. When I ask them why they don't do more to grow a little, like merge, they say that the risk is simply too great . I thought maybe they're being overly paranoid, but as it turns out that's not just unwarranted fear.

I was recently interviewed by one of these small corps at the same time as another player. That player was accepted while I'm still thinking about it hanging out in the recruitment channel. The day after, the CEO could tell me that the player had held him for ransom while in his freighter moving the players stuff in high sec space. Luckily this particular episode had a happy ending for the CEO, but it certainly highlighted the problem for me; When you have 2 wannabe bad ass ninjas for every 1 straight shooter, and the mechanics favor the ninjas, you get a problem establishing structure and that includes social structure which is fairly essential in a MMORPG.

I don't know that the CEO deserve this kind of nonsensical stuff to be stacked against him when he is in fact trying to establish something that would probably enhance and distill the game experience for a lot of people. And I don't think implementing say a 'push this button for consensual practice PvP' or whatever in high sec, would make EvE a game for carebears.
Piracy and shenanigans produces tension and excitement, but when it becomes so prevalent it dominates everything else, it just turns into parody and boredom.


Recruiting can be dangerous, no doubt about it. I recommend vetting your recruits, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't accept new recruits. Your neighborly CEO probably had somewhat of a heart attack during the ransom, but that provided a fair bit of content for him and his. That type of adrenaline rush might not be what he's looking for, but learning how to cope with it and experiencing it and learning from it is part of this game.

When joining a corp, there are risks and rewards, and they are something you need to consider.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#55 - 2014-01-22 23:10:52 UTC
Marcus Avon wrote:
Cara Forelli wrote:
There are benefits to this as well.

1. Many corps train their members by dueling with each other (usually not to the death). Fortunately, this can be done in high sec with the current rules.

2. Other important uses for intra-corp aggression. Webbing freighters for example. (This is the practice of applying a web to a slow ship to reduce the amount of time it takes them to accelerate to warp). It wouldn't make any sense to require a "duel" for this purpose.


I wasn't actually aware of these benefits and that does make a big difference. Its always easier to accept a rule if there appears to be some sort of underlying logic behind it and I honestly couldn't think of any reasoning for intra-corp aggression besides "it makes it easier for awoxers to screw you".

That being said, almost all aspects of the benefits you mentioned can currently be handled using the existing dueling mechanic. The exception would be multi-player battles. At least with a duel you know you are about to get into a fight, even if your opponent tries to go further than they agreed to. With the intra-corp aggression rules on the other hand, you can be attacked any time, any where when you least expect it.

To me this sounds like a very good reason to steer clear of joining a corp, at least until I can easily afford to be ambushed and killed by a corp mate at the worst possible time.


Using your same argument, you could ask why CCP allows suicide ganking in highsec! During one of the mining barge buffs, many highsec gankers were complaining about CCP trying to make highsec safe, and a Dev came out and said that if they wanted to, they could simply make illegal Player vs Player aggression impossible to do in highsec (especially with the new safeties), but they specifically don't because they don't believe any area of space should be "safe".

The point is, CCP and most of the playerbase want there to be drawbacks and dangers to joining a corp. Think of it as the "an armed society is a polite society" paradigm, as your pissed off corpmate could do some serious damage to you and yours. Corps come with huge benefits: Corp Hangars, POS's, Shared Enemies, Shared bookmarks, Private Chat window, Corp Mailing lists, and most importantly, people to fly with. At the end of the day, it is people you fly with that generally keeps people in game, and that's the most important reason to join a corp (IMHO). It is every bit worth the risk of losing your freighter to a random AWOXer. And saving that freighter with the help of your corp mates will bring your appreciation of having a corp increase a thousand fold!

Marcus Avon
New Eden Fedo Lovers Society
#56 - 2014-01-23 00:00:54 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
It is every bit worth the risk of losing your freighter to a random AWOXer.


But is it? Its quite clear that you have decided it's worth the risk, I accept that.

I on the other hand have looked at your list of Pro's and they really don't seem all that attractive compared to the Cons and I'm not just talking about the threat of Awoxers. In fact many of your Pro's appear to be two edged swords each with their own down-sides. They are very attractive to the corp as a whole, agreed, but to a newly joined individual player, not so much....

For example what do I care - as a new corp member - about being able to set up a POS when I would seriously struggle to purchase a new Cruiser if I lost my current one. Nice for the corp, but for me personally, irrelevant.

It may be my inexperience talking here but it seems that the majority of people who are advocating joining a corp are veterans of many years who can easily afford to absorb any losses they might incur as a result of the many additional things that can go wrong as a corp member.

Perhaps when I'm several years into the game, the risks will also appear minimal to me. At the moment, they look anything but.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#57 - 2014-01-23 00:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Marcus Avon wrote:

I on the other hand have looked at your list of Pro's and they really don't seem all that attractive compared to the Cons and I'm not just talking about the threat of Awoxers. In fact many of your Pro's appear to be two edged swords each with their own down-sides.


Most things in EvE are double edged swords.

For example: Bigger ships mean you have more firepower to dish out, but have a harder time applying that firepower to your desired targets.

Marcus Avon wrote:

For example what do I care - as a new corp member - about being able to set up a POS when I would seriously struggle to purchase a new Cruiser if I lost my current one. Nice for the corp, but for me personally, irrelevant.

As a new player/corp member, your corp could give you access to fully researched BPO's that you can use to manufacture items for profit. As a new player, you may struggle to afford operating a POS (let alone buying one), yet they can give you immediate access to Copy and ME research slots that you would have to wait 30+ days to access using an NPC corp. Access to a POS also could allow you to swap ship fittings without docking, or store loot in a system without a station, or give you a safe location to sit in space when there are hostiles around.

Marcus Avon wrote:

It may be my inexperience talking here but it seems that the majority of people who are advocating joining a corp are veterans of many years who can easily afford to absorb any losses they might incur as a result of the many additional things that can go wrong as a corp member.

Perhaps when I'm several years into the game, the risks will also appear minimal to me. At the moment, they look anything but.


First off, I joined a player corp with 2 other RL friends of mine when I first started playing the game. We didn't recruit, we just wanted an easy way for the three of us to hang out and play together. They left the game after a month or two, but I stuck with it. When it occurred to me they weren't coming back, I started looking for a corp (being bored of running L3 missions). I couldn't fly a BS (let alone afford one). I had less than 100m in total assets, and I was still fairly ignorant of the game. I took an Agony PvP Class and fell in love with PvPing, eventually joining Agony and I've been a happy pewpewer ever since.

I realize that joining a corp is somewhat awkward and potentially dangerous, but use common sense:

1.) Look at the size of the corp: If it is 5 players, it doesn't offer much protection. I would recommend avoiding them unless you know the members before you join. I have some alts in Industrial corps about this size, and we occasionally get wardecced and attacked (because we look like highsec industrial carebears). It is the friends I have made, that allows me to bring in war allies and fight back. It was the friends I made that taught me how to setup a POS so that people just don't bother attacking it anymore. The truth is, it is the friends you make in this game that truly opens doors and creates content!

2.) Be smart about your assets. Anything in your personal hangar is safe. Anywhere else it is NOT safe. If you undock in a ship today, you need to KNOW deep down it will be destroyed someday, someway (usually because you do something stupid). Fly what you can afford to lose, and be careful with your assets. I remember the first time I lost an expensive ship (500m when that was a huge portion of my personal assets), and it was devastating. I felt I did everything I reasonably could to prevent the loss, and still I lost it. I remember losing my first 3b isk highsec Missioning ship, and again was devastated (at my stupidity). This is a game where you will lose assets, and you need to accept that NOW, and approach gameplay from that perspective. You might think of me as some spoiled rich veteran, and I'm certainly not poor, but the assets I've earned I've done so slowly over time, suffering many, many losses along the way.

3.) Look at the corp's history: How often do members come and go, how often are they at war, what timezone do they play in, what is their killboard record like, who are the corp leaders and what is their forum history like, what is their reputation!!!

At the end of the day, you need to look at joining a corp similar to voting for a political candidate: If you don't do your research, and just willy nilly vote for someone because they are charismatic on TV, then you're likely to be the victim of scams and treachery. EvE is very much a dystopia where there are no jailcells for criminals, but that doesn't mean everyone is a criminal that cant be trusted. Banding together is the best defense you will ever have against the unscrupulous members of this society!
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#58 - 2014-01-23 01:32:23 UTC
Marcus Avon wrote:
For example what do I care - as a new corp member - about being able to set up a POS when I would seriously struggle to purchase a new Cruiser if I lost my current one. Nice for the corp, but for me personally, irrelevant.


A good corp will help you not only lose that cruiser, but afford and lose many more. There are a lot of ways to make money at a much faster rate in a group setting, whether it's protection for running sites in null sec or wormhole space, POSes near valuable PI and moon materials to base out of, or access to valuable blueprints for industry. Many corps have ship replacement programs as well. My net worth sky rocketed when I joined a wormhole corp after just a few months of playing and started running wormhole PVE sites in groups.

ISK is a big concern for new players. Most of the replies in this thread espouse the wonders of camaraderie and friendship instead of discussing the financial pros of joining a corp, because most older players don't worry much about ISK anymore. Once you have plenty of ISK you start to look for other reasons to play, and group activities become more attractive. IMO this is when the game really gets fun! And most people that reach this stage are able to do so because the infrastructure of their corp allows it. Yes, it's possible to get rich on your own, but it's a longer journey. So don't let ISK hold you back from joining a group. A good corp will not only provide fun for you, but fund it too.

Just to emphasize, this is what a GOOD corp will do. Many corps are not good corps, which is where you have to be careful.

Of course many players just are not interested in joining a corp and that is fine as well. To each his own, and may he prosper much (and then roll in to my wormhole). Big smile

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-01-23 02:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Marcus Avon wrote:
Cara Forelli wrote:
There are benefits to this as well.

1. Many corps train their members by dueling with each other (usually not to the death). Fortunately, this can be done in high sec with the current rules.

2. Other important uses for intra-corp aggression. Webbing freighters for example. (This is the practice of applying a web to a slow ship to reduce the amount of time it takes them to accelerate to warp). It wouldn't make any sense to require a "duel" for this purpose.


I wasn't actually aware of these benefits and that does make a big difference. Its always easier to accept a rule if there appears to be some sort of underlying logic behind it and I honestly couldn't think of any reasoning for intra-corp aggression besides "it makes it easier for awoxers to screw you".

That being said, almost all aspects of the benefits you mentioned can currently be handled using the existing dueling mechanic. The exception would be multi-player battles. At least with a duel you know you are about to get into a fight, even if your opponent tries to go further than they agreed to. With the intra-corp aggression rules on the other hand, you can be attacked any time, any where when you least expect it.

To me this sounds like a very good reason to steer clear of joining a corp, at least until I can easily afford to be ambushed and killed by a corp mate at the worst possible time.


So...easy solution, ALWAYS expect to be shot at, in or out of corp. What does it matter if an awoxer kills you or a suicide ganker. In both situations, you lost your ship.

2nd. Not all eggs in same basket. If you do that you are just asking for trouble, and it will find you eventually.

And on your last comment, so that will be never. As that is one of the most common traps made by players (I need 'x' amount of SP/ISK before I can do 'y'). It will end in the spiral where you think you will never be ready.


To each their own playstyle, but I really wonder WHY people come to an MMO and then go play it single player style.

As for the last shitloads of posts (including some of mine) they were all off topic IMO. OP for reasons why to join a corp and they were given a long time ago already. He never asked about butthurt stories of how 1 or 2 bad situations make all corps in EVE bad or personal opinions on working-as-intended mechanics.

Personally, the reasons listed (but you can be wardecced / shot at by fellow members) are just justifications by people that want EVE to be a single player game.

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J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-01-23 02:42:00 UTC
Marcus Avon wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
It is every bit worth the risk of losing your freighter to a random AWOXer.


But is it? Its quite clear that you have decided it's worth the risk, I accept that.

I on the other hand have looked at your list of Pro's and they really don't seem all that attractive compared to the Cons and I'm not just talking about the threat of Awoxers. In fact many of your Pro's appear to be two edged swords each with their own down-sides. They are very attractive to the corp as a whole, agreed, but to a newly joined individual player, not so much....

For example what do I care - as a new corp member - about being able to set up a POS when I would seriously struggle to purchase a new Cruiser if I lost my current one. Nice for the corp, but for me personally, irrelevant.

It may be my inexperience talking here but it seems that the majority of people who are advocating joining a corp are veterans of many years who can easily afford to absorb any losses they might incur as a result of the many additional things that can go wrong as a corp member.

Perhaps when I'm several years into the game, the risks will also appear minimal to me. At the moment, they look anything but.


You do know that EVE is a game of goals and long term planning.
You also do know that a POS is a Corporate asset, by joining a corp you gain access to THEIR POS. You dont have to buy it yourself.

If you just dont see the good things and can only see the AARGH-AWOX Con, you just DONT WANT to see it and want EVE as a single player game.

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Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club