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HED-GP Reinforced Node. Good job CCP. 3,900+ in Local.
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Tavian Blake
WaHnSiNn IsT ReLaTiV
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#61 - 2014-01-19 03:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tavian Blake
1st: Winter Archipelago.... ur the all knowing Grandgod of the hole menkind EvE Universe and all **** what the menkind ever made and maybe the god of dinosaurs and what will come after the menkind!!! Lol

2nd: This Battle reminds me for the old days of EvE where we was waiting ages until we spawn in a System after hit the jump button and found ourself death or alive in the destination.
I was more than one hour in a jump tunnel, with emergency warp and all 1,5h if i remember right. 3,5 hours my weapons and siege was flashing red after i deactivated them and i was simply able to do nothing... cant warp off, cant jump out and werent be able to go back in siege because all was flashing red... ah and the enemies was waiting and i was one of the last who get killed. And before the hole time i was in siege my weapons was hitting like 5 times or so. Thats a ******* joke!!!

Look at this...

If u look at this pic... from the module cycle u could assume, yeah still in siege but no wtf there is something jamming, but wait there are still targets locked and there is a jamcycle wtf Shocked

Caps are hiding cause they are scared... ;-)

And at my EvE Clock it is stil 22:55 ^.^
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#62 - 2014-01-19 03:08:57 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
People who complain about TIDI make me laugh. They're the same type who probably complain about traffic, not realizing that they, themselves, are a part of said traffic.



Until then, if someone doesn't like fighting under TIDI, don't. Nobody's holding a gun to your head.
So those who don't like or want to deal with the current horrible way things sort of work, should do what? Stop playing Eve, great idea.

The analogy of a traffic jam is somewhat off the mark, or is it. Yes they are part of the overall problem of traffic jams but if the powers to be (government bodies) improved infrastructure would those traffic jams still be as bad?
Hmm lets see, if CCP did something to change the way these fights are dealt with, would tidi be reduced.

Maybe your right, they are the same people and in both instances pay for the right to either drive their car or play eve

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Qsadish
Colour out of Space
#63 - 2014-01-19 03:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Qsadish
Winter Archipelago wrote:
People who complain about TIDI make me laugh. They're the same type who probably complain about traffic, not realizing that they, themselves, are a part of said traffic.

CCP have some of (if not the) most powerful servers in the gaming industry. Thousands of people can be on-grid in a single fight, far more than some games can even handle in their entire game world, let alone all together in one place. The TIDI system works reasonably well to accommodate all of them, up until you reach the extreme numbers.

Is TIDI a good system? Compared to what once was, yes, it is. Compare the time prior to TIDI, and compare it now. Fights can be much larger. But inevitably, people come along, whining, bitching, moaning, and complaining about how bad TIDI is. It isn't the best system, but the cost-benefit of its alternatives would make even Blizzard cower in terror.

If people want 4000+ pilot fights to be done without TIDI, they need to wait 5 or 10 years for the raw processing technology necessary to become affordable. Granted, by then, fights will probably be 6000+ people, and the situation will continue, simply because the necessary technology isn't affordable.

Until then, if someone doesn't like fighting under TIDI, don't. Nobody's holding a gun to your head.


The thing is massive battles with open numbers are the advertising and selling point of the game
If they can't provide comfortable gameplay above certain number of players involved they should restrict it by game design otherwise the game is broken
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
#64 - 2014-01-19 03:31:36 UTC
A word from the source.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/equestriancdr/goons_zpscd0a3168.jpg

"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
John XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#65 - 2014-01-19 03:51:14 UTC
It was misrable, it was frustrating, and it was awesome all at the same time.

N3/PL and friends put everything on grid early and pretty much said, "Come and get it." We did our best despite running into some difficulties with the game. We'll do better next time. Naglfar training will continue...

gf to everyone who fought in that madness.

Keep looking for ways to improve CCP.

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-01-19 04:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nex Killer
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Nex Killer wrote:
Their servers could be upgraded with some GPUs and recode the gameserver so most of processing is done on the GPUs. GPUs processing is 100x faster then CPUs and this could fix the TiDi because the GPUs could keep up with the commands quicker then the CPU can. But I don't see CCP doing this, which is sad.

There are so many errors in this small post of yours that I don't even know where to begin...

Do I start with the GPU / CPU part? The upgraded servers part? The recoding the game part? The "refusal" on CCP's part part? The rate at which data is processed part?

Every single sentence in your post is wrong, some on multiple levels. Please, for the sake of everyone who works with computers, go learn about computers and programming before you make a post like this again.

Please.

Edit :: Unless you're trolling... That post would make sense if it were a troll. Please, please be a troll...


Okay Mr. smart ass. What wrong with my post? Ever hear of the Titan Supercomputer? It's the first hybrid supercomputer that uses GPU/GPUs for the processing power. As of right now it performs at 17.59 petaFLOPS, but can theoretical perform at 27 petaFLOPS. There is only one other supercomputer faster and that is the Tianhe-2. But that costs four times more than the Titan at $390M USD to Titans $97M USD.

Ever hear of Bitcoin mining? What did they use to mine coins with before ASIC chips came out? Oh that's right they used GPUs because they were faster at mining than CPUs. Lets see here a i7-3770K can mine at 5.2 Mhash/s and cost you $330 USD. A ATI Radeon HD 7870 GHz can mine at 460 Mhash/s and cost you from $189-220 USD. Oh look at that the GPU is faster and I saved some cash.

So if CCP upgrade to a CPU/GPU hybrid gameservers, they'll get more bang for their buck. I never said they would have to recode the game, Gameserver != Game. You do know you could change the gameserver language from one language like Python to a different one like Java and the game client would never know the difference. I know crazy right!? The reason why I said I don't see CCP changing is because GPUs aren't has flexible as a CPU when programming for them, plus I don't see them having the backbone to do it.

Oh and one more thing kid. I live and breathe programming. I tutor it at my college, help people on forums, and could program circles around you for months. You're the one that needs to learn about computers and programming before opening up your little mouth.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#67 - 2014-01-19 05:19:21 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I remember the endless complaints going on like "I warped on grid, my screen was black for 10 minutes and then I was in a new clone".


And at what points did that happen? Compare numbers then, and compare numbers now. TIDI allows for significantly more people to be involved in a fight. As I said, it isn't the perfect system, but it's better than what once was.

Tronjay the'3rd wrote:
I guess you werent there .....right?


Please define "there." I wasn't involved with HED today, no. I have, however, been involved with plenty of TIDI battles (including the battle at 6VDT at the end of the Fountain war).

I was also "there" when the problems we have now at 2500 players would occur at 250, with 500 players bringing the system to the screeching halt that now occurs at the 3000+ mark.


Uh, comparing "then" to "now" I see one difference: thousands of people are lagging out instead of hundreds. Thousands are finding the game unplayable instead of hundreds.

Aim low . . . aim low.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#68 - 2014-01-19 06:12:37 UTC
Such TiDi. Much node. Wow.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-01-19 06:17:59 UTC
Nex Killer wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Nex Killer wrote:
Their servers could be upgraded with some GPUs and recode the gameserver so most of processing is done on the GPUs. GPUs processing is 100x faster then CPUs and this could fix the TiDi because the GPUs could keep up with the commands quicker then the CPU can. But I don't see CCP doing this, which is sad.

There are so many errors in this small post of yours that I don't even know where to begin...

Do I start with the GPU / CPU part? The upgraded servers part? The recoding the game part? The "refusal" on CCP's part part? The rate at which data is processed part?

Every single sentence in your post is wrong, some on multiple levels. Please, for the sake of everyone who works with computers, go learn about computers and programming before you make a post like this again.

Please.

Edit :: Unless you're trolling... That post would make sense if it were a troll. Please, please be a troll...


Okay Mr. smart ass. What wrong with my post? Ever hear of the Titan Supercomputer? It's the first hybrid supercomputer that uses GPU/GPUs for the processing power. As of right now it performs at 17.59 petaFLOPS, but can theoretical perform at 27 petaFLOPS. There is only one other supercomputer faster and that is the Tianhe-2. But that costs four times more than the Titan at $390M USD to Titans $97M USD.

Ever hear of Bitcoin mining? What did they use to mine coins with before ASIC chips came out? Oh that's right they used GPUs because they were faster at mining than CPUs. Lets see here a i7-3770K can mine at 5.2 Mhash/s and cost you $330 USD. A ATI Radeon HD 7870 GHz can mine at 460 Mhash/s and cost you from $189-220 USD. Oh look at that the GPU is faster and I saved some cash.

So if CCP upgrade to a CPU/GPU hybrid gameservers, they'll get more bang for their buck. I never said they would have to recode the game, Gameserver != Game. You do know you could change the gameserver language from one language like Python to a different one like Java and the game client would never know the difference. I know crazy right!? The reason why I said I don't see CCP changing is because GPUs aren't has flexible as a CPU when programming for them, plus I don't see them having the backbone to do it.

Oh and one more thing kid. I live and breathe programming. I tutor it at my college, help people on forums, and could program circles around you for months. You're the one that needs to learn about computers and programming before opening up your little mouth.

If you know about programming you know about loose and tight coupling. From experience I know often they change something like "fixed the word CPC to CPP" and totally unrelated things start happening to say, drone behaviour. It appears to be somewhat tightly coupled or what people refer to as spaghetti code. Its likely not a simple matter of rewriting the server code. Also EvE is not Windows, I don't know much if anything about it but I doubt its able to be ported onto completely different hardware without issues.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#70 - 2014-01-19 06:33:37 UTC
Nex Killer wrote:
You do know you could change the gameserver language from one language like Python to a different one like Java


Oh the memory leaks....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Apocryphal Noise
Close Encounters of the EVE Kind
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-01-19 06:40:46 UTC
The worst eve online experience I've ever had. 15-20 minutes per remote call. Crazy, crazy amount of dropped calls, the game basically broke down. Spent two hours watching my dread edge 300 meters out of a bubble so I could watch a 45 minute long jump tunnel. God damn this game is bad.
Dior Rellik
NERFSQUAD
#72 - 2014-01-19 07:58:51 UTC
Maybe with the criticism, people could also be a bit more constructive and give some solutions to the problem. I've fought in large scale battles with CFC and old NC and there is northing worse than clicking on lock target or f1 for weaponry and waiting half an hour for one cycle. Tonights big fights sounded like complete hell for those coming into the system

The only solution I can see is system capacity capage. Allowing 4k players into a system for them to not actually be able to play the game in a free flowing manner is NOT achieving anything remotely worthwhile (lag free is impossible but playable surely isn't!). So what if it statistically breaks records. It does not improve game-play in the slightest and only enhances community rage. So as said why bother ? In a battle such as this, I think they need to consider capping the amount of pilots allowed into a system that is pre-planned for a major battle.

I think the larger alliance would then have to think a lot harder about what fleets / ships they are going to drop in. More planning and tactics and much less blobbage.

If technology is not sufficient enough to handle this sort of gaming environment, then we need other alternatives.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#73 - 2014-01-19 08:37:04 UTC
Apocryphal Noise wrote:
The worst eve online experience I've ever had. 15-20 minutes per remote call. Crazy, crazy amount of dropped calls, the game basically broke down. Spent two hours watching my dread edge 300 meters out of a bubble so I could watch a 45 minute long jump tunnel. God damn this game is bad.


**CCP; The game is working as intended, we are sorry if you are not happy with it.

This sooo encourages you to want to spend more money to play?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Hogan Miner
DOOMSDAY.
#74 - 2014-01-19 08:43:05 UTC
I was there and i would like to know what they use as server for these fight there was 20% tidi even with one side on grid i think in 21st century they should have good enough machine to run at least 3000 ppl with no lag at all maybe they could return some money they get from US and return ti back to game not to their pocets ..

They get more then Half milion Euro per month so they should have a good servers i want to know setup of their server ...
I pay for MMO game and i dont geting it.. so return my money CCP
Hogan Miner
DOOMSDAY.
#75 - 2014-01-19 08:46:24 UTC
Hogan Miner wrote:
I was there and i would like to know what they use as server for these fight there was 20% tidi even with one side on grid i think in 21st century they should have good enough machine to run at least 3000 ppl with no lag at all maybe they could return some money they get from US and return ti back to game not to their pocets ..

They get more then Half milion Euro per month so they should have a good servers i want to know setup of their server ...
I pay for MMO game and i dont geting it.. so return my money CCP


btw what about mass prosecution on them in EU we have chance to get money :-P Eu courts are nice in these cases...
flakeys
Doomheim
#76 - 2014-01-19 08:52:37 UTC
Wolf Kruol wrote:
CCP needs to wake up. 4000 player limit isn't going to work. For the future of eve and the null empires that fight we need to be able to do what we do best. Blow s-h-i-t up.

I don't want excuses or story's of alien invasions.. Nullspace is at war from top to bottom. This isn't the first time we had large battles and won't be last. But for those who are already in HED and can't log in or are stuck forever, isn't acceptable CCP.

I like many others on all sides have $H1T to do. This tidi nonsense is broken as far as I'm concerned.

Fix the tidi CCP Make it work.

EVE is serious spaceship business!




REally annyone of your side or mine who is bitching like this should just deinstall the game and ******* leave.



All you kids are whining about something wich never did work , doesnt work and probably never will work. Anyone who thaught this was gonna be anything else then a server barely surviving is an idiot , regardless of wich side or rank you are .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2014-01-19 09:09:24 UTC
Dior Rellik wrote:
Maybe with the criticism, people could also be a bit more constructive and give some solutions to the problem.


OK, then short of major rewriting of large chunks of eve's codebase, which perhaps isn't possible, then change the objectives of the sov system. If the game is heavily limited in what a single system can handle, then force the colliding fleets to split their forces across multiple systems to accomplish their objectives.

In other words, rather than 3000 capsuleers all piling into one system, split that 3000 across an entire constellation of 6 or 7 systems. Thus: an average 500 a system, maybe 1000 max. The servers can handle that, perhaps even without tidi.

Make it so they have some infrastructure objective to complete in each, roughly simultaneously, or some "state of the war" running count as faction warfare has. Or both. The details don't really matter, just anything that forces the fleets to split their numbers across multiple systems.

Someone above mentioned a road traffic analogy, which is fair enough. Supply is limited, and any extra capacity for a single system will soon be swamped. The difference is that CCP can change the target destination of all the traffic fairly easily, and thus solve everything on the demand side.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#78 - 2014-01-19 09:25:08 UTC
Dior Rellik wrote:
I think they need to consider capping the amount of pilots allowed into a system that is pre-planned for a major battle.


Coalitions would then pack the system so no opposition could enter the system to stop them.

MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
Dior Rellik wrote:
Maybe with the criticism, people could also be a bit more constructive and give some solutions to the problem.


OK, then short of major rewriting of large chunks of eve's codebase, which perhaps isn't possible, then change the objectives of the sov system. If the game is heavily limited in what a single system can handle, then force the colliding fleets to split their forces across multiple systems to accomplish their objectives.

In other words, rather than 3000 capsuleers all piling into one system, split that 3000 across an entire constellation of 6 or 7 systems. Thus: an average 500 a system, maybe 1000 max. The servers can handle that, perhaps even without tidi.

Make it so they have some infrastructure objective to complete in each, roughly simultaneously, or some "state of the war" running count as faction warfare has. Or both. The details don't really matter, just anything that forces the fleets to split their numbers across multiple systems.

Someone above mentioned a road traffic analogy, which is fair enough. Supply is limited, and any extra capacity for a single system will soon be swamped. The difference is that CCP can change the target destination of all the traffic fairly easily, and thus solve everything on the demand side.


Then coalitions would bring 3000 people to each of those 6 or 7 systems.

Right now you have a box and there are too many people in the box. They can't move. There isn't even enough room for them to scratch their asses.

If you make the box bigger so those people can move around more freely, they will just bring MORE PEOPLE and fill up the volume of the new, bigger box until none of them can move.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
#79 - 2014-01-19 09:33:08 UTC
Just a suggestion.

Maybe CCP could ask the US government for a loan of some of the servers that are going spare now that the president has (allegedly) nerfed the NSA.Big smile
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2014-01-19 09:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Kimmi Chan wrote:

Then coalitions would bring 3000 people to each of those 6 or 7 systems.


Are there really such numbers available? That's around 20,000 accounts, plus assorted extra logistics chains behind them.

Even if there were, it's a much higher bar to hit before nodes start falling over. The current setup is limited by a system per core - this spreads whatever load there is across multiple cores.