These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Mobile Micro Jump Unit will it change wormhole space?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-01-17 22:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
Quote:
Mobile Micro Jump Unit

This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).

The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.

There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.

Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.

Right now we have the base version set to 60s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 5k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk.
Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD.
Current activation range is 5000m.
It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 10km of another MJU.

Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects.

I was wondering how this will affect wormhole space?
Will it change the standard t3 armor fleet doctrine in w-space?
Will it increase mobility for w-space fights?
Will the grid around w-hole be bigger because of people micro warping around?
Would shieldfleets be viable now?

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#2 - 2014-01-17 22:41:58 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:

Quote:
Mobile Micro Jump Unit

This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).

The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.

There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.

Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.

Right now we have the base version set to 60s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 5k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk.
Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD.
Current activation range is 5000m.
It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 10km of another MJU.

Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects.

I was wondering how this will affect wormhole space?
Will it change the standard t3 armor fleet doctrine in w-space?
Will it increase mobility for w-space fights?
Will the grid around w-hole be bigger because of people micro warping around?


Honestly, if you are in a site, the most efficient way to get out is usually plain-old warp, unless it is a C5 site and sleepers have everyone pointed or you are in something very heavy. I am still hoping that the feedback from the PVP community will be negative enough to nerf this carebear easy-mode module.

Once bubbled, it will essentially mean you have to keep a scram on more ships to hold them. This means, if these modules become popular, there will be more scram-fit interceptors in fleets in order to hold them/ catch ships who manage to MJD away.

In all honesty, it encourages blobbing of site runners more, and will encourage smaller groups to consolidate to team up and ensure you have enough fast points to keep a fleet on grid that might be spooling up their jump drives. In the end, it just means more blobbing of carebears, and maybe some creative tactics if a fight is going horribly wrong.

Of course, carebears being carebears and wanting every isk to count, I am sure there will be some that don't want to leave a module behind that cannot be unanchored, so only time will tell how broad this effect will be on wormhole space.

I do not approve of this module, however, as I just think it's silly, pointless, and an attempt to make eve "different" in a way that is non-sensical, illogical, and mostly just feeds the risk averse.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#3 - 2014-01-18 11:01:49 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:

Quote:
Mobile Micro Jump Unit

This baby does pretty much exactly what the name implies. When active, any player within range can use it to launch their ship 100km in the direction that the ship is travelling when it makes use of the structure. It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module. This spoolup duration is not modified by skills and on the base structure it is 12s (just like the MJD module would be if you could use it without skills).

The actual Micro Jump effect works exactly the same as the effect from the module. So during the cycle you go full throttle in one direction with a sig radius penalty, it can't be cancelled, scrams prevent you from jumping, it preserves speed on landing, all that jazz. You only have to be within range of the structure at the start of the micro jump cycle, not at the end. If the structure is destroyed during your spoolup time, you do not get launched. Since the MJU has no cooldown, a player can start the jump cycle from a Micro Jump module or MJU immediately after finishing a previous jump facilitated by a different MJU.

There will be mass restrictions to prevent caps and supercaps from using it, but everything else is fair game. We are currently planning to set the mass restrictions such that freighters can use it but anything larger is blocked. Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you.

Like the Cynosaural Inhibitor and the Siphon Unit, the MJU is a single use structure. Once dropped it can never be scooped and will stay in space until it either gets blown up or finishes its lifetime.

Right now we have the base version set to 60s module activation time, 48hr lifetime, 5k ehp (mostly structure), 50m3 volume and a build cost of about 1m isk.
Micro Jump spoolup is 12s like an unskilled MJD.
Current activation range is 5000m.
It can't be placed within 20km of gates or stations, within 40km of a starbase tower or within 10km of another MJU.

Please note that the version on SISI at the time of this post has a few known defects.

I was wondering how this will affect wormhole space?
Will it change the standard t3 armor fleet doctrine in w-space?
Will it increase mobility for w-space fights?
Will the grid around w-hole be bigger because of people micro warping around?


Honestly, if you are in a site, the most efficient way to get out is usually plain-old warp, unless it is a C5 site and sleepers have everyone pointed or you are in something very heavy. I am still hoping that the feedback from the PVP community will be negative enough to nerf this carebear easy-mode module.

Once bubbled, it will essentially mean you have to keep a scram on more ships to hold them. This means, if these modules become popular, there will be more scram-fit interceptors in fleets in order to hold them/ catch ships who manage to MJD away.

In all honesty, it encourages blobbing of site runners more, and will encourage smaller groups to consolidate to team up and ensure you have enough fast points to keep a fleet on grid that might be spooling up their jump drives. In the end, it just means more blobbing of carebears, and maybe some creative tactics if a fight is going horribly wrong.

Of course, carebears being carebears and wanting every isk to count, I am sure there will be some that don't want to leave a module behind that cannot be unanchored, so only time will tell how broad this effect will be on wormhole space.

I do not approve of this module, however, as I just think it's silly, pointless, and an attempt to make eve "different" in a way that is non-sensical, illogical, and mostly just feeds the risk averse.

^What he said.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-01-18 12:19:00 UTC
Lower classes, yes, higher classes, no. There will still be plenty of idiots that won't use it and will therefore get caught doing sites in lower classes, and in higher classes subcaps shouldn't bail if the capitals get tackled (unless the capitals will die anyay).
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-01-18 14:44:22 UTC
I was more thinking of fights at a wormhole then jumping carebears.
I didn't even think of carebears haveing it easier to escape.
More like fight where you first jump in a hic to bubble the hole so that caps can't close it.
And then taking in shieldfleets or nanoboats.
You won't be stuck at the wormhole on 0 if you drop one of those.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#6 - 2014-01-18 15:10:57 UTC
Think the hard rangelimitation and archons being unable to use those due to mass will disqualify them a little. Also mind the online time, compare it to the average lifetime of a mobile depot / mobile tractor on-grid.
100k is also a quite terrible jumpdistance for everything wormhole related - If you drop a carrier and your opponents don't have th manpower to take that one down at the moment or similiar, they'll just move out to 60-80 off the archon and kill stragglers. If you jump behind them, you'll turn your fleet into an analogy of a big horde of lemmings.

Since you can't use them while pointed, it's quite pointless. I can't see any reasonable - not-obvious - offensive use for them in pvp, besides something defensive like anchoring it 100off a hole to warp your fleet up there and MJD through their bubblecamp.
Bussan
Kabukicho
#7 - 2014-01-18 15:13:46 UTC
To be honest I don't see the problem about "carebears" or such... most of them won't use it... why they should?
You jump on them, they are fast enough to click on the MJU and jump 100km away... you click the same unit and jump 100km close to them again... what is good in that, to escape you?
The only "difficult" part is that you have to face the same direction the poor carebear was pointing too... is that the hard part?
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#8 - 2014-01-18 15:35:36 UTC
Bussan wrote:
To be honest I don't see the problem about "carebears" or such... most of them won't use it... why they should?
You jump on them, they are fast enough to click on the MJU and jump 100km away... you click the same unit and jump 100km close to them again... what is good in that, to escape you?
The only "difficult" part is that you have to face the same direction the poor carebear was pointing too... is that the hard part?

Maybe the 20 second cycle time? What subcap takes longer than 20 seconds to align and warp?

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-01-19 13:25:22 UTC
I forgot the 60s activation timer wich means you can only microjump 1 ship every 60 seconds.
I though it was able to microjump an entire fleet and that the activation timer was only that each ship has to wait 60 seconds to do an other jump.
Maybe a microfleet jump drive unit would change w-space fleet fights more.
Maybe add an upperlimit of 30 ships in 60 seconds to the timers, so that people still can be left behind.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#10 - 2014-01-19 14:37:53 UTC
Useful for bubble camping jump bridges. Worthless for everything else.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
ROSSLINDEN0
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-01-19 15:37:52 UTC
unless you can jump to another one that lets them get back to 0m on the wh as being out of jump range is scary i hear, pvp in wspace sucks as is so this if it ever actually gets used will just make that worse
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-01-19 20:01:07 UTC
And i though i was a bitter vet... .

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2014-01-20 13:07:24 UTC
If they activate it, follow them. It'll still be the close range fight it'd be on a WH... I don't see it being used much.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2014-01-20 13:08:35 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
I forgot the 60s activation timer wich means you can only microjump 1 ship every 60 seconds.


Believe 60s activation time is the time it takes to anchor and come online.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Desmond Strickler
#15 - 2014-01-21 01:54:24 UTC
I can't wait to buy 10 of them and set up a race track around my POS.

[b]Part-Time Moon Bear and Full-Time Black Guy

"My other dread is a Swaglafar"[/b]
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#16 - 2014-01-22 02:45:33 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:
I forgot the 60s activation timer wich means you can only microjump 1 ship every 60 seconds.


Believe 60s activation time is the time it takes to anchor and come online.


It is. Your whole fleet can use it at once, or it'd be absolutely useless.

Talk in the dev thread about it was that these are the beginnings of the replacement POS code, modular structures anchorable in space with various attributes, eventually becoming permanent.

That's my hope anyway, or why are CCP focussing so much effort on deployables?
Bussan
Kabukicho
#17 - 2014-01-23 17:17:36 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
Bussan wrote:
To be honest I don't see the problem about "carebears" or such... most of them won't use it... why they should?
You jump on them, they are fast enough to click on the MJU and jump 100km away... you click the same unit and jump 100km close to them again... what is good in that, to escape you?
The only "difficult" part is that you have to face the same direction the poor carebear was pointing too... is that the hard part?

Maybe the 20 second cycle time? What subcap takes longer than 20 seconds to align and warp?


I'm sorry, but where did you find that 20 secs cycle time? I fail to see it...
Moreover as stated in the description, " It has no cooldown or limit to how many ships can use it at once, but it does have a spoolup time just like the MJD module."
So, for what I understand, you can follow him without having to wait any CD.
Moreover I read "scrams prevent you from jumping" too.... so in case you are already in range, he won't run away.
And another one... " Like I mentioned above, it is usable by everyone and is not restricted to the owner or their corp/fleet. This means you can feel free to use it to try and escape, but your assailant is also free to use it to follow you."
I understand people just wanna kill other ships without effort and as much safe&easy as possible, but sometimes it's really a bit too much...
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#18 - 2014-01-23 18:05:03 UTC
I've got a use for it, but it'll take some mental imagery on your part to picture it.

Dress Fozzie up in one of those white clown suits (the one w/ the big red dots all over it)
Add floppy shoes, honk honk nose, and frizzy wig (color to taste - Bane likes rainbow wigs, so consider those)
Put said clown in a full body harness (one of the good ones the rescue squads use - think sturdy)
Hook the haness to the mico jump drive (don't launch him yet - there's more!!!!)
Put all knowledge and mention of micro jump drives and anything with the word stablizer in his pockets
Set micro jump drive range to infinity (all the way to the right and keep turning until the knob breaks off)
Hit the jump button and run
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#19 - 2014-01-24 20:03:31 UTC
I do not like this advice. I think it just make carebears safer in wormhole space, and a lot of kills will be missed by the uninformed who no longer carry scrams.

That said, we will be carrying scrams with every fleet, so not super worried.

My hope is people are stupid enough to try to spool up their jump drive prior to warp when a fleet comes on scan, instead of just trying to warp out/ stay aligned. Also, since you can't scoop it, I'm pretty sure that a lot of bears will be TIGHTWADS OVER 9000! and not want to spend the extra isk, even if it is dirt cheap.
Malcolm Rennolds
Inquisition FiS Division
#20 - 2014-01-26 04:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Rennolds
My alt flies a MJD Domi. It's hilarious. Seriously, insanely fun small gang ship. This could add some interest to super small gang fights (1-3v1-3), but I'm gonna have to agree that it'll mostly help carebears run sites with unscouted wormholes and escape.

For those people who say they will click and follow: You're confused over how this will work.

CAREBEARS READ THIS PART/Proper MMJD usage for escaping.

0: Fly a fleet that can get buy without ANY speed tank.
1: Deploy MMJD.
2: Passive align yourself to your pos/safe spot, within click range of MMJD.
3: Kill sleepers
4: The second gankers show/decloak click MMJD.
5: 12 seconds later you will land 100km away, aligned with your pos at 100% max velocity. Insta-Warp to pos/safe spot.


This reduces the effective align time of every ship to 12 seconds or less. Your triple plate triple trimark battleship? 12 seconds. Your **** scorpion navy issue? 12 seconds. That blinged rattlesnake some drunk mission runner brought into your c3? 12 seconds. If you're using strat cruisers to run sites it's less useful, but still viable. If you're doing this consider making an align grid so that you're always aligning to a safe spot instead of orbiting cans or some other silly thing.

Catching these people will be... difficult. Maybe cloaked on grid hictors 350km off their pos if they are obviously aligned to a specific pos? Difficult to time and such. Scrams are great but you'd have to land, lock and scram within 12 seconds of them screaming on comms.

Moving on to the click-to-follow idea. Here's what will actually happen.

1: Carebear clicks MMJD
2: ERR MA GERD MUST FOLLOW.
3: Click MMJD
4: 12 seconds later carebear lands 100km off MMJD.
5: Ooops you weren't perfectly aligned with the carebear, 13 seconds later you land 20km off the carebear.

When I say perfect, I mean fricking perfect. You've got a 12 km scram? +/- 6.65 degrees off align is your margin of error. 20km scram? Nice try, all your faction/heat/boosts have extended it to +/- 11.73 degrees off align. Edit: Now if you're a crazy person and you fly an offgrid boosted proteus with an officer scram and heat you'd have a easy time of it. Please start flying this ship.

Go play around with this, even agile ships really gonna struggle to land, align, click MMJD, and land a scram before the target has warped somewhere given the low margin for error and the fact that they land at max velocity meaning as long as they aren't pointed directly away from the sun they're probably aligned to something.
12Next page