Science & Industry

Well the rest of these fine folks are hitting the nail on the head.

I've already dropped my tower. The cost of fuel, plus paying for jobs is a slap in the face.

It's liquidation time, and auction a much less valuable toon now.

ONE LESS PAID SUBSCRIPTION FROM ME CCP

most serious refiners in null sec already had the skills at near max because we only had 35% yield stations available. The refining issue doesn't much affect the people who already had to have max skills to get close to 100%. Am I sad that loot reprocessing got hurt? Of course, but it isn't comparatively any worse than the nerfs many of my friends have had in pvp ships over the years.
From what i am seeing I think the price for jobs at a POS should have some mitigation as well as by sec status. Maybe low sec stations start at 51% refine or charge somewhat less taxes. Null sec refine at 52% or fewer station taxes again. The only reason is because it is so much harder to keep a pos alive in low-sec and null sec.
I think null and especially WH space should have a much lower maximum cap on the system index. I don't care if 50 producers are in a 0.0 system if they are 20 jumps from the nearest other facility there would still be lenty of workers. Might be easier to implement a regional or at least constellation mitigation factor.

disclaimer
All in all I'm kind of excited by the new patch but i have been out of action for a few years. I only resubbed recently.

Hello,

I agree with Jason Chase and Kesker,

Isn't it a little bit strange that we have to pay for jobs in our own laboratories?

A POS is almost unrentable now...

that there are 3 types of a ores is in my opinion nonsense.

I saw how Pyroxeres was more worth then the 10% more yield type because Pyrox is needed for Missions...

Pls CCP dont make this complex game even more complex with such content

I tried industry out a year ago. It didn't stick with me. Too much hassle and uncertainty. I dabbled in exploration and whenever I came across a bpc I would just sell it because I couldn't be bothered.

Since the industry update I have gotten into manufacturing. The interface is incredibly easy to figure out. I didn't need a third party wiki to find out what the hell it all meant.

So from an accessibility standpoint you guys did a great job. One more player is building things in eve now.

Hi there.

As far as I see, miners are selling all their mining chars, i´ve seen guys selling 15 and 20 mining chars, why they would do that?
Lets see...
Now the ore are traded as compressed ore and not on mineral, miners are loosing isks.
The new regfinning system makes them raise their skill to maximum if they want to get more mineral, however when they want to sell it, no one wants the mineral, they prefer to by compressed ore, at least in null sec.
Then comes the industry... tons of the same structures just to get the bónus and in the end CCP took away that bónus because of the teams costs.
So, now produces on POS worth nothing, I believe soon CCP have to put their hamsters and slaves to work on NPC stations just to supply the players.

Changes are needed of course, I like changes and I guess everybody like changes, however change should not be made at our time expenses because we know that when we get on goal (max skills) you will find a way to make them useless again as always. That have happened several times in the last 4 years and will continue until people say enough is enough and leave the game once and for all.

Why didnt you put T2 BPO´s on market provided by NPC´s? And instead of using decryptors for ME/PE level, use them for decrease manufacturing time, use the datacores for T2 manufacturing as required item.
You want teams, that is ok, but let the people do their munufacturing jobs as allways without those guys and without paying in their own structures, you can make the teams on the same way, however who wants them have to pay for them.
You want to give bonus to manufacting in POS, use ihub upgrades instead of 50 ammunition arrays in the same POS,, you can even make ihubs usefull for wormholes, give those guys an assist and give them at least some sites to run, some of them as none for days and weeks.
Give some ice to wormholers too, in exchange give null sec some gas sites I never see any in all systems I passed.
The reprocess system I agree with the changes.
Move the data sites away or make them worthy, they worth nothing at all, put relics sites in drone space too, drone space still the uggly duck of eve.

Hope you guys read these words, i´ve experienced some eve professions but you guys always have to break my game. I´m tired to make skills that later became useless, or at least let us redistribut our skillpoints for something usefull.

Now I have found where something of industrial relevance is it’s time to destroy it in true eve fashion.

First the R.Db items.

Well they are useless unless you are some age old lucky or multi trillion isk person that has had the luck of having a T2 BPO.

I am yet to find a single use for these items and I’m forced to agree that T2 BPO’s need to make a comeback and in my honest and experienced opinion these need to be reintroduced in data or relic sites ( the how, why and balance of I am leaving to you although this is probably a bad idea ).

Second useless build requirements.

This solely refers to titans build requirements I have recently focused on industry and something really bugs me with the titans BP’s and this is the fact that to build them the BP requires that two certain components are needed to construct these marauding monsters of new Eden let me elaborate.

The components to build these monsters are:
Capital Propulsion Engine
Capital Turret Hardpoint
Capital Sensor Cluster
Capital Armor Plates
Capital Capacitor Battery
Capital Power Generator
Capital Shield Emitter
Capital Jump Drive
Capital Computer System
Capital Construction Parts
Capital Doomsday Weapon Mount
Capital Ship Maintenance Bay
Capital Corporate Hangar Bay
Capital Jump Bridge Array
Capital Clone Vat Bay

Now I don’t know to the readers overall experience within eve ( it’s probably little with the actual functionality of these ships ) but these last two items in the above list draw grate concern with myself, Why have parts such as Capital Jump Bridge Array and Capital Clone Vat Bay when the base hull does not have the functionality of putting up a bridge or installing a clone without additional modules ?

This is just building for the sake of building no wonder industrial focused people are leaving the game and or selling their characters who knows what else requires such pointless and useless parts. ( Looks like the Rorqual requires Capital Clone Vat Bay parts for construction aswell ).

Third Player Owned Structures ( POS’s ).

This part of the game needs the most attention these should be the end game for industrial focused corporations / alliances as it is only at these structures that super capital ships can be constructed at ( at least to myself the fact of super capital construction suggests end game industrial ) and yet the fitting requirements are poor to say the least, POS defences are a joke ( you cant counter capital ships successfully with anything more than a POS and loads of guns ) and even then the POS can’t decide on a target if it’s unmanned for more than a minute or two.

Refining should be better at POS’s than it is. The fuel use should be less for regular space users ( i know it gets a modifier in SOV space and I believe it gets one in FW systems as well ). The recovery of low end moon materials should be altered to make it more financially viable to deploy and defend structures on such moons, and not to mention the fitting requirements should be lower for structures such as defences ( Missile battery’s are scarcely used for the fact they require CPU and when the POS is reinforced these structures go offline compared to turret battery’s that don’t ).

All in all i find the changes you have done to industry to be nothing more than cosmetic with little thought to industry in its entirety, Refining base yield needs to be grater if not in stations then at POS’s you could even alter the skills to give a better modifier to gain better yields from the ore that corporations and alliances spend not just hours or days mining but weeks and months.

In the words of Philip j Fry “fix it” before industry dies a slow and painful death with POS’s being the first to go.

P.S. The only POS array I have found any use for within industry is the compression array all the rest just gather dust in my items bay waiting for the possible day where they become useful once again.

Everything you guys try to "fix" you break. My inventory UI is still broken from when you tried to "fix" that like 2 or 3 years ago and now you break something as basic as the info tab.

So I was just talking to a corp mate who is new to invention and trying to walk him through some stuff so I go to the market to find a BP to link to him so I can explain to him about the skills and data cores and how it all works and guess what the invention tab on the BPO is greyed out so I can't find that info.

Luckily since I was talking basic theory and did not need a specific item I could just go to contracts and be confident that I could find a BPC there so I do and right click on show info and once again the invention tab is greyed out.

So then I go into "view contract" and then click on the info button in there and bingo now I can see the info that I am looking for. So I drag that into corp chat to show my corpie and guess what happened. Yep you guessed it, it went back to the generic BP info UI where the invention tab is greyed again.

So if you are looking for invention info like if you want to train skills to work towards inventing something or start researching data cores to invent something and no one is selling BPCs in contracts the only way you have to find that info is to buy the BPO make a copy and then look that the info UI on that copy. Am I the only one that see's that as being a huge **** up?

This game used to have a lot of ways to look up various kinds of info and link it to people and more and more you are eliminating those ways and claiming it's to make things simpler and more intuitive. This game is very complex and heavily reliant upon vets taking newbies by the hand and teaching them stuff. So your answer to making the game simpler and more new player friendly is to make finding basic info very difficult and make linking that info impossible?

By the way if I sound a bit pissed it's only because seriously every time that I dock and my station hangar becomes my ship's cargo hold and I have to re-setup my inventory window and I want to just throw a bricks with the CCP logo on them through random windows in Reykjavik so the locals show up at your door with pitch forks and torches.

Of course I'm joking about the bricks but I'm not about my frustration with you guys braking everything that you touch and then moving on to the next thing to break.

You guys are thinking to narrowly about doing certain tasks if you already have everything you need in place and forgetting that sometimes people just explore info tabs looking for their next project. Think more general and less specific.

This information is easy to find. Open info for BPO, select copying tab, there you have BPC as outcome. Double click it or right click for popup menu ... you there

This team concept and the new changes especially to industry have IMHO totally messed up industry.

Firstly, I have 5 pos's in hisec, managed by other toons and a couple of corps, two of the pos's have been online for years, the other 3 I use as necessary. Apparently no advantage to owning and maintaining pos's in hisec any more! As if the cost to keep them up and running wasn't enough of an isk sink, now I'm paying exorbitant costs to NPC corps to install jobs in pos's with NO benefit for my corp.

Secondly, this team concept CCP has created, beyond being another isk sink targeting smaller corps while handing industry to the large corps/alliances has caused me to rethink my position when it comes to EVE industry in general.

None of the recent changes CCP has made in the last year has done anything to make EVE more fun! All CCP has done is added layers of complexity, confusion, and change meant to turn EVE into a game for large corporations/alliances and if you don't join one you basically whelping ships and getting very little fun for your subscription.

I used to really love to do the indy stuff and was able to generate a significant isk revenue stream with 132 build slots available across 12 of 21 toons. Plenty of cyno alts and two highly skilled pvp toons.

I currently have 7 accounts with 21 toons most of which are/were industrialists and those characters are all about making isk for this character to be able to afford ships and stuff for pvp along with a few other pvp toons. Maintaining that many accounts in case you at CCP don't know it is an expensive and tedious. In recent months and more specifically with the summer expansion targeting industry I haven't been able to grasp/digest the changes in this expansion and be able to justify continuing along the industrialist profession. That being said I'll probably begin to consolidate my accounts, sell off my indy assets and play EVE for free until the isk runs out.

This toon was my first and will likely be my last in EVE. EVE is morphing into a game where it's hard to find something to do that's fun, lucrative, offers any kind of ability to relax without being constantly "on guard". Don't get me wrong, I play the game primarily to PVP and If you look at my KB stats I'm actually pretty good at it. However, the changes over the years have done everything to move assets and advantages towards the large alliances. Making it impossible for the small alliance to compete at virtually any level. My current alliance keeps plugging away, but IMHO will continue to struggle because we DON't desire to join a large alliance for the safety and security in numbers.

I used to mine ice and minerals in hisec, however, it's just not fun anymore!! Hisec gankers have ruined that career, along with the constant war decs that basically just create work for industrialists, loss of revenue and in my case parking 12 toons for a week or more.

Sorry about the wall of text but just consider this an observation of how CCP is going wrong. Indy toons basically parked, hisec mining toons parked (Don't care to hassle with gankers) .

For those of you that wish to troll me have at it, I could care less!! CCP you need to really wake up and analyse what's really happening with EVE, and, maybe EVE is really on it's way out. Analyse this though, when I first started playing EVE there were about average to see 45 to 55 thousand characters online at any given time, now barely over 30 thousand during prime time. Large alliances getting larger, small alliances/corporations getting smaller or evaporating into the ether of space. Rampant uncontrolled inflation in the markets for virtually anything in the game and all of the isk controlled by a small number of players/alliances. Your catering to the large alliances/power blocks serves only to keep the smaller corps from having fun competing all across the EVE universe and IMHO is contributing heavily to your loss in subscriptions.

If CCP cares to discuss don't hesitate to contact me in game, if ya don't care that's ok as well!! EVE for me is on the verge of no longer being fun and when it's not fun I won't do it anymore! Have fun, fight outnumbered, kill ****, and by all means take care of you family BEFORE EVE.