These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

[Idea] "Farms and Fields"

Author
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#21 - 2014-01-17 14:53:49 UTC
IrJosy wrote:

I don't hate mining. It doesn't even have to mine ore or ice. Again, I'll let ccp figure that out.

What is the difference between an afk mackinaw that docks up every 20 minutes or so and a dude in a pvp ship babysitting a deployable structure?

One of these situations leads to pvp. The other leads to a dude docking up. Do you want an eve with more content or less?



1. Your first line of your post clearly states that they will be, "deployables that mine asteroids"....Sheesh the title of your post is "Farms and Fields", meaning those things like asteroid belts that some of us farm as our preferred form of game play. So, you dont get to skate by with saying you didnt intend for them to destroy all the farming professions.

2. You take a guard put them into a heavy piece of equipment like a dump truck and tell them to operate it. They wont be able to do it, why because guarding is not doing, it is guarding. You are eliminating a profession (mining) and creating nothing since guarding stuff already is required in the game (see SOV etc. if you dont think guarding as a profession already exists).

3. Removing all the farming professions and putting in more guard duties takes content out of the game, it doesn't add anything.


Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#22 - 2014-01-17 15:33:27 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
3. Removing all the farming professions and putting in more guard duties takes content out of the game, it doesn't add anything.

Yeah... I'm going to have to insert my opinion on this point.

I am a miner, and right now interaction with the game boils down to this:
(No hostiles) Target asteroid, fill hold, involve hauler.
Rinse & repeat.

(With hostiles) Run away or explode.
The excel sheets don't lie, over time this is the least effort / greatest reward path for mining.
Mining ops, while fun, are as much if not more about social interaction, and this interaction actually draws in non miners to hang out and participate in these too brief events.

The original idea was to have players risking their ships more in some areas, in exchange for better yields. What emerged was instead a "best practice" which amounted to avoid hostiles due to no PvP cover.

Why guard the miners like me? It is dull and at best you get to shoot a few rats while waiting. Those wanting PvP find their needs better met going on roams, so that is exactly what they do.

Ok, so why does this work at gate camps? I see PvP pilots standing a post their quite often!
Ah, that is because they are still following the path of least effort / greatest reward by doing that.
They can't mitigate the risk from hostiles popping through these bottlenecks more efficiently. Mining ships can avoid risk by docking, but noone knows how to stop the incoming hostiles beyond direct intervention this way.

The pilots at a gate camp would probably jump onto a roam too, except they find two things happen:
1. The excel sheets indicate alliance losses are less overall by maintaining these camps.
2. Despite them being common knowledge, other players will still try to run them IF they think they have a decent chance. That means either overwhelming force trying to plow through, or cloaked / speedy ships trying to dodge the guards.
Those defending the camps want to get out the intel about these intruders ASAP either way, making the case that they are also observation posts in the event they cannot block entry.

TL;DR: Make defending mining interests something that requires interaction, rather than avoidance as a best practice, and the game benefits.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#23 - 2014-01-17 20:19:10 UTC
I think this would be fun. I also think it has the possibility to tank the market. +1 from me.
Ze'nedra
Digital Instrumental Machines
#24 - 2014-01-21 14:37:10 UTC
This is not the Farmville you were looking for!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#25 - 2014-01-21 14:58:34 UTC
Ze'nedra wrote:
This is not the Farmville you were looking for!

Real miners don't want farmville.

The Miner's Manifesto:

Real miners also are not grinding in order to play the parts of the game they prefer over mining.

Real miners want to mine. Mining is the end game for us.

To a miner, you are either grinding ore, trying to be more efficient grinding ore, or attacking those in a different alliance who grind ore.
Ratting happens when rats interrupt mining. They are a distraction to be eliminated, not sought out.

PvP is a distraction. Letting it stop mining is a flaw on the miner's part, as they are pouting over conditions not being perfect.
Refusing to undock is equivalent to throwing a temper tantrum. Throwing temper tantrums is not a sign of maturity, we don't reliably get to have it our way when dealing with other people.
Adapt.

Miners WANT to compete with other miners. Be it in the market place, or sneaking up on each other to sabotage efforts by hostiles.

Miners do it with Deep Core Strip Miner II's.

The Orca is a RV, and the Rorqual is a Mobile Home.

We keep pet drones, and one of my Vespa II's think that you got a purty mouth. It might come to greet you when you visit. Smile purty for it.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#26 - 2014-01-21 17:02:32 UTC
While parts of the OP are seriously flawed, I like the idea that you have something valuable and fragile in space that requires protection. While choosing to dock up is an option, it is not that fun.

Perhaps instead of more deployable structures, mining barges should get the option to enter a siege mode that drastically increases yield and tank, at the expense of immobility - a bastion mode for 0.0 mining. Mining barges would be able to receive remote reps in this mode. This would require accounts in space, which is good for CCP. And, with deployed rorqual and/or carrier support, they could be made tough enough to provoke an escalation by the roaming gang.

Solo or poorly-prepared miners could still be caught and killed, but those willing to increase the risk get greater rewards if they can get organized well-enough.

Eve needs something an invading force can pillage, without things bring too easy for one side or the other.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dirala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-01-21 17:45:31 UTC
I like the title Farm and Fields. Its an aspect which can be very fruitfull for small gang pvp.
Burn down your enemys ISK making capabilities in the long run and force him to protect his space not on a SOV level.
Giving out free stuff in the very empty null sec isn't my idea of it.

I was thinking more in the lines of:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4136005#post4136005

"Mobile Incursion Unit"

- Only one Unit per system.
- akts like a warp beacon
- Disrupts ratting bounty Constellation wide by 10%
- Every Unit dropped in different Systems of the Constellation increases the effekt of all Units in the Constellation by 2.5%.
(so 5 Systems with the MIU gives a total 20% disruption)

Stats are like the Mobile Medium Warp Disrupter.

When destroyed, it stays inaktiv for 5 hours until it disappears. (Hence only one can be dropped every 5 hours per system)
This should give the ratting people the reward of not beeing disrupted again for 5 hours. And that you cant spam those things.

Without it beeing destroyed it stays in space for 24hours.


The Goal is, to have the ability to provoke fights. Taunt people to form up a fleet to fight or live with a small disruption of ratting capabilities if unwilling to form up to protect the ratting space.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#28 - 2014-01-21 18:43:34 UTC
In my opinion, if you want people to fight over resources, then the key is to expose the resources.

Sure, put this deployable object out there.

BUT, make destroying it the least attractive option for a hostile. Give that hostile an incentive to be sneaky and greedy all in one.

Let ANYONE take the contents of the device, thus giving them a reward for boldly venturing into hostile space, while also creating a reason for defenders to make an appearance.
By all means, just like that ratting bounty deployable being discussed, let people be told in real time if someone is accessing the storage bin. A popup window telling everyone who happen to be paying attention.

But wait! How can someone take so much ore and run away with it!
Yep... they'll need to bring something to haul with, won't they....

I see potential for great violence surrounding this...
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#29 - 2014-01-21 18:58:31 UTC
You have to give people something to fight over that compels them to fight. If not right this instant, at some time soon.

When the Vikings come to raid and pillage, I run for the castle. If I make it, I laugh at them from the walls. They respond by raping the cattle and stampeding the women who didn't make it inside. The local lord gets his army together and chases away the Vikings. There is no incentive for me to leave my castle, unless the Vikings have caught something expensive and resilient enough that it can be saved. Unless that exists, the best solution is for me to wait them out. The target has to be tough enough that some interceptors cannot take it down, but not so tough that it requires a huge fleet. The goal is to put something at risk that is worth the roaming gang's time and worth standing and fighting to attack or defend. CCP has yet to find this balance.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-01-21 19:03:44 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
In my opinion, if you want people to fight over resources, then the key is to expose the resources.

Sure, put this deployable object out there.

BUT, make destroying it the least attractive option for a hostile. Give that hostile an incentive to be sneaky and greedy all in one.

Let ANYONE take the contents of the device, thus giving them a reward for boldly venturing into hostile space, while also creating a reason for defenders to make an appearance.
By all means, just like that ratting bounty deployable being discussed, let people be told in real time if someone is accessing the storage bin. A popup window telling everyone who happen to be paying attention.

But wait! How can someone take so much ore and run away with it!
Yep... they'll need to bring something to haul with, won't they....

I see potential for great violence surrounding this...



I like the look of that idea, and its completely in line with CCP's "give everyone more options to be dicks to every/anyone," expansion theme. I forsee many humorous instances of basic cloak fit t1 haulers invading belts, scooping loot, jetcanning it and popping it.

Why bother actually taking it for yourself, when you can pop the stuff not worth carrying, and just try to make off with the expensive stuff?

Get some Eve. Make it yours.

Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-01-22 04:47:38 UTC
How about this: instead of making a mining satellite that you have to sit there and defend, why not make a satellite that defends miners? Some kind of mobile turret you can deploy anywhere, limited to one per ship, that was the size of a mobile tractor beam. A single one probably wouldn't stop a determined ganker/thief but combined with drones and/or the defense satellites of friends it could take out a throwaway destroyer or cruiser. This would mean less people having to sit there bored to tears guarding their mining corpmates.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-01-22 07:41:18 UTC
I thought we had "farms and fields" already.
It is called "faction warfare" ;)
Thank you CCP for fixing that :D (irony off)

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-01-22 08:46:18 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
I like an auto mining bot that lets me mine a lot less and make a lot more, and have decent reasons to shoot people. Only problem (for ccp) is it means less accounts are needed for more mining.


That won't stop people from deploying those structures AND use their 200+ accounts to mine all of eve.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Previous page12