EVE General Discussion

Why should I have to spend precious time outside the game reading about something that should be fun to do in the game.
This is what needs fixing in my opinion, clarity withing the game, so that we play, not read wikis and blogs and what not.....

The transfer of PI materials into a planet you have perm. colonized with Advanced factories or teir'd production would help.

PI visual could be a bit more visually appeasing, but not at all the biggest of issues.

So I took the survey and I don't remember anything about removing the standing requirement to anchor a POS...


I do remember talking about the crappy invention path tho, but that's because I put it in the comments.


The survey was seriously lacking in depth as compared to the dev blog on the upcoming changes.

Because roles are hard...

Actually roles are hard, so I can't make jokes there, but I don't think that's changing until POSs, so Soon™

Now you will not be able to research with the BPO in the station
also the only thing still worth to research and copy ( long and expensive BPOs like capitals/supercapitals ) will only last a few days to copy. Like the market was not already saturated with BPCs for ships too expensive to build or too nerfed to use. A titan or a supercarrier BPC will most likely go down in price to under a dread/carrier one.

like research was not already nerfed to almost useless.

Currently the big issues for me are:

- Too many skills to train
- Lots of stuff need to be sourced but have no clue where to find it, as it is not on the market or contracts
- When at the end you manage to produce something, it's a lot more expensive than buying it on the market

I think in view of the above it would beneficial if:

- The game is simplified
- There are more rewards for the profession
- More guidance is provided
- Put in place a mechanism to reduce speculation
- Allow Rorquals in High sec for major operations to be conducted there
- Increase defence mechanisms for miners in low sec and below

I just finished watching the Fanfest keynote on industry and I'm a bit confused at what CCP's aim is.

They want to encourage more people to get into industry by increasing the complexity of the process? Now you have to deal with "special teams" if you want to have the best industrial edge?

The reason why people don't get into industry is because it's impossible to make a profit unless you have dang near max skills and enormous capital. There are a few key factors to industry, your skills, your BPO levels, how you get your materials, how you manufacture it, and how you sell it.

There are no changes to the skill requirements to start industry.

BPO levels are possibly easier to attain now that you don't need to own your own POS just to research a BPO (previously limited due to research slots). This one was a HUGE capital sink because somehow you had to build your own POS or join a corp that is trustworthy enough to not screw with your blueprints.

Acquiring materials is more difficult for those who mine their own minerals now because of the need for absolutely maxed skills and a stupidly expensive implant (which I can only imagine to get even more expensive with increased demand). Sure you can just buy your minerals off of the market, but that's one less avenue that people will be using.

The new changes to POS manufacturing arrays now mean that you have to own a POS, or even more difficult, own a POS in low sec to get the best profit margin. So basically, again unless you are in an industrial corp, good luck getting this perk without having a huge sum of ISK to start.

Selling the end product still requires decent business skills to not lose a fair chunk of your profit margin to broker fees. (Yay, leveling skills)


So more now than ever it is more difficult to get into industry. I don't understand CCP's idea that increasing the required capital and higher entry skill levels are going to entice people to get into industry. If you are just starting manufacturing, if run the math, you know that with low skills and buying your materials off the market will net in a negative total profit. That is, it costs more to produce the item than you can possibly sell it for on the market because there are so many other people who have those maxed skills, maxed BPO's, and the capital to start their own manufacturing lines. To complicate matters, there are now special teams that will cause you to have to relocate your operations because it wasn't difficult enough to get into manufacturing...

Honestly, who says, yes I want to spend the next several months of skill training time so that I might be able to start having a positive profit margin when manufacturing? Alternatively, you could spend a bit of time on combat skills which let you pvp and make stupid amounts of ISK by ratting for an hour and in the process make more than a starting industrialist makes in a month.

So I ask the question, this is supposed to entice people into starting industry HOW?

Actually... yeah. It wasn't originally planned, but break enough stuff, and eventually you accidentally get around to breaking everything.

Shall we recap the thrashing being done in the Industry changes?

Infinite lines. Instead of converting hard cap on concurrent jobs per facility to soft-cap with fees for going over on a facility by facility basis, they completely removed the concept of concurrent jobs and just made cost be based on total solar system usage, with stupid complexity in figuring out discounts for multiple-facilities.

But what to do with the bonuses for facilities/outpost upgrade that granted extra lines. Oh, Material need reductions of 2% for POS and 5% for Outpost.



Research complexity. Convert to whole % reductions in need instead of fractional reductions of added on waste.

Where x is an INT, round(round(x * 1.111) * 0.9) = x ALWAYS.

At upgrade, increase base need by ratio of 1.1111, convert fractional % waste BPOs to whole % reduction BPOs.

Hey, can we get "better than old perfect" by combining research and ME reductions for facility? Ummmm.... didn't think it through, but sure, why not?

OOOPS, break!!!!!!!...
Where x = 4, round(round(x * 1.111) * 0.9) = 3. A 25% reduction from that extra 5% reduction.


Hmmmm... HACK. Let's make it always round up.
Okay...... That fixes 4, but....
Where x = 5, ciel(round(x * 1.111) * 0.85) = 6

There is no way to get back down to 5...

Oh, let's just round to the job instead of the run. SO... if we do a 3-run job of billion ISK ships, we get closer to the old needs.

OH, but what about T2? If I used to need 1 T1 ship per run, now, I may need 9 per run of 10.. or even more stupidly, 2 for a run of 1 due to negative PE from invention.


More hacks.... max(batch rounded need, run) to ensure you always need 1.
AND hack get rid of the -40% ME on invented BPC.

Decryptors?
Hanges to total T2 component demand from better invented T2 BPCs?
Not sure yet. Trying to come up with more not-thought-through last minute hacks to fix the breaks caused by the last not-thought-through last minute hacks, that were needed to fix the breaks from the previous not-thought-through hacks....



All to try to save what was:
1) Poorly designed move to infinite concurrent jobs per facility.
2) Ill advised change to research, that appeared simple enough at the high level, but is game breaking in the details.

And don't get me started on "teams". Huge mega alliances buy special advantages that small corps will never be able to afford, allowing the mega alliances to dominate and dooming small, casual players.

Only 5 years too late......

edit.