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[Rubicon 1.1] Interceptor Agility Tweak

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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2014-01-19 20:47:41 UTC
Sixx Spades wrote:
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:

Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.

Pods aren't bubble immune.

Nor Smartbomb imune... And How about put FoF missiles some use???

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
#142 - 2014-01-19 22:45:03 UTC
I like my 1.9s Align time ceptor, and it having an MSE, and not needing Istabs to make it work. But this nerf is pretty reasonable. Its not going to make sub 2s ceptors impossible, but it is going to quite appropriately increase the tradeoffs for fitting one. Removing bubble immunity means that a dictor spewing bubbles behind a fleeing fleet totally defeats ceptors. It also means that those 10 T2 Large bubbles on your ratting system gate give you plent of time to run from ceptors. The nullification is needed.

Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2014-01-20 00:28:01 UTC
Secret Squirrell wrote:


Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants




I can probably maintain 1.9 on my travel 'ceptors by replacing one or more nanos with istabs.

I have no real issue with the content of this change.

The main problem is the apparent reason ... that whiney null bears got upset and threw tantrums.
JD No7
V I R I I
#144 - 2014-01-20 01:19:08 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Sixx Spades wrote:
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:

Pods warp in 0.08 seconds.

Pods aren't bubble immune.

Nor Smartbomb imune... And How about put FoF missiles some use???


Smartbombs can work but easily avoided using pings and checking if the Smartbomber is on your alignment.

What drugs are you smoking talking about FOFs? You know they only shoot people that aggress you right?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#145 - 2014-01-20 01:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
ZheoTheThird wrote:
And it just so happens that many people have been using 1.9s align time Maledictions to harass and kill otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters, most dominantly Goon ones. And now they're getting nerfed hardcore, making them unusable for that task entirely. :tinfoil:


Sounds like a good reason to nerf them Big smile

Problem: ceptors are going deep into Goon space getting past their camps and killing their ratters.

Fix: just remove bubble immunity
Lin Fatale
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2014-01-20 14:11:47 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Secret Squirrell wrote:


Post patch, you will have 3 options:
*Cheap 1.9s Ceptor that has bad DPS/Survivability from tons of Istabs blooming its sig and taking fitting slots
*Regular Ceptors that will be 2.1s+ and be tacklable buy resbo camps, your tackle orbit may be a bit worse, but very minimally so
*Really expensive sub 1.9s that are still decent at doing ceptor things (but not as good as the cheap 2.1s+ ceptors) require perfect skills, and end up costing 200m+ after fittings and implants




I can probably maintain 1.9 on my travel 'ceptors by replacing one or more nanos with istabs.

I have no real issue with the content of this change.

The main problem is the apparent reason ... that whiney null bears got upset and threw tantrums.



the reason is
that you want an uncatchable, 6k fast, 50k range, run away from every possible risk crowfleet
which CCP deliverd as a workaround to break trough 50 T2 bubbles on every gate in 0sec

Cuz they tend to introduce workarounds and small addons and refuse to think about the root cause
Franky Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#147 - 2014-01-20 14:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Franky Saken
Benito Arias wrote:

Quote:
CLAW
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.15 (+0.15) / 4.8 (+0.23)

=============================================================================

STILETTO
Mobility (agility / align time): 3.5 (+0.4) / 4.95 (+0.57)


And this it what we got in Rubicon 1.0.

Quote:
CLAW
Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 475 / 3(-0.09) / 1100000(-26000) / 4.57s(-0.25) (was 4.82)

=============================================================================

STILETTO
Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 435 / 3.1 / 1020000(-80000) / 4.38s(-0.35) (was 4.73)


I'm confused. So you made them more agile 3 month ago, and now you are reverting the changes to:

Claw, align time 4.8 from 4.57 from 4.82. What?

Stiletto, align time 4.95 from 4.38 from 4.73. Really?

What I see proposed here is making Inties worse shuttes AND worse Interceptors, which is bad. Please reconsider the latter, thank you.


Just quoting this as it is the most important thing in this thread. The interceptors are getting worse than they were before their buff all for the gain of bubble immunity which was never the problem in the first place and fully takes away careful piloting and taking a risk by warping straight to gate.

Mass reduction sounds legit but is probably too bug-prone to implement.

To re-iterate, what needs to be nerfed is the safe-ness of travel. Not the role interceptors were actually meant for, tackling stuff. You *will* die if you need to keep point for long on a carrier or need to dive into a small gang to grab a point on something for your (right now very popular) Ishtars which want to stay out of their own point range.

Either fix this by giving fleet interceptors longer point ranges and lock ranges or fix it by taking away nullification but please don't play with their agility as it will effect the time it takes to warp, but also orbiting distances, turning speeds, it's already hairy to tackle another frigate while trying to avoid getting slingshot as the scram ranges are that close together.

The role is tackling, not safe travel.
Gjor
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#148 - 2014-01-20 19:37:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie,
I am not happy with this tweak. Interceptor Align time and agility are fine. Where they are now is working and does not need any attention. Interceptors are currently being caught on gates at will. This might be the straw...
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#149 - 2014-01-20 19:49:55 UTC
Good change.

The Tears Must Flow
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#150 - 2014-01-21 01:51:53 UTC
Agility goes up.

Align time goes up.

Sounds legit.

Someone fail math? Or just plain lack of logic.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#151 - 2014-01-21 01:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
IIshira wrote:
ZheoTheThird wrote:
And it just so happens that many people have been using 1.9s align time Maledictions to harass and kill otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters, most dominantly Goon ones. And now they're getting nerfed hardcore, making them unusable for that task entirely. :tinfoil:


Sounds like a good reason to nerf them Big smile

Problem: ceptors are going deep into Goon space getting past their camps and killing their ratters.

Fix: just remove bubble immunity


Oh I get it.

Goon tears.

Guess you'll have to nerf titans cause goons are to scared to take those out.

PL blowing up the goons, can't have goons crying.
Xirin
Estrale Frontiers
#152 - 2014-01-21 03:06:59 UTC
I'm still not seeing why this change is the least bit necessary.

I get that it's bad to have uncatchable interceptors. So why not just revert on the bubble immunity? I honestly don''t mind dying in a well-planned gate camp.

What I do mind is being terrible at tackling things because my ship turns like a lethargic elephant at high speeds.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#153 - 2014-01-21 03:10:53 UTC
Xirin wrote:
I'm still not seeing why this change is the least bit necessary.

I get that it's bad to have uncatchable interceptors. So why not just revert on the bubble immunity? I honestly don''t mind dying in a well-planned gate camp.

What I do mind is being terrible at tackling things because my ship turns like a lethargic elephant at high speeds.


Yeah that extra fifth of a second of align time is really going to mess with your tackling RollRollRoll
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2014-01-21 05:07:29 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
IIshira wrote:
ZheoTheThird wrote:
And it just so happens that many people have been using 1.9s align time Maledictions to harass and kill otherwise unkillable nullsec ratters, most dominantly Goon ones. And now they're getting nerfed hardcore, making them unusable for that task entirely. :tinfoil:


Sounds like a good reason to nerf them Big smile

Problem: ceptors are going deep into Goon space getting past their camps and killing their ratters.

Fix: just remove bubble immunity


Oh I get it.

Goon tears.

Guess you'll have to nerf titans cause goons are to scared to take those out.

PL blowing up the goons, can't have goons crying.


LOL its ironic that, after all the propaganda from nullbear alliances and CCP themselves about how nullsec dwellers are super hardcore elite PvPers, the very first time a change makes life in their SOV space even a fraction as risky as hisec never-lone losec they whine and get CCP to bring back their bullet proof "no-one gets through without our say so" gates :D
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#155 - 2014-01-21 11:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
You know what would be bad-ass? If you let inties keep their agility and instead split anchorable and dictor/hic bubbles into different categories, and then gave interceptors immunity to the anchorable variety. It would let inties blow past static defenses, but would leave active interference (gate camps, carefully-positioned and -timed hic/dic drag bubbles, etc) effective against them.

While you're at it, you can apply the same stat to T3 nullifier subsystems.

This is clearly the best idea, since there's no good reason for EVE ships to be categorically immune to other players' active, directed attempts to stop them.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#156 - 2014-01-21 11:47:27 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
as risky as hisec


Hasikan Miallok wrote:
bullet proof "no-one gets through without our say so" gates :D


You seem to have put your post about another MMO on the EVE board by mistake.

(Get out)
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#157 - 2014-01-21 13:54:06 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
You know what would be bad-ass? If you let inties keep their agility and instead split anchorable and dictor/hic bubbles into different categories, and then gave interceptors immunity to the anchorable variety. It would let inties blow past static defenses, but would leave active interference (gate camps, carefully-positioned and -timed hic/dic drag bubbles, etc) effective against them.

While you're at it, you can apply the same stat to T3 nullifier subsystems.

This is clearly the best idea, since there's no good reason for EVE ships to be categorically immune to other players' active, directed attempts to stop them.


Oh did I blow up your ratting ship? Who are the carebears in the game?

Hint. We hear far more crying from goon.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#158 - 2014-01-21 13:55:35 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Agility goes up.

Align time goes up.

Sounds legit.

Someone fail math? Or just plain lack of logic.


Bueller. Bueller.

Ok, I'll give you a hint. Agility reduces align time.
Franky Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#159 - 2014-01-21 15:04:27 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Agility goes up.

Align time goes up.

Sounds legit.

Someone fail math? Or just plain lack of logic.


Bueller. Bueller.

Ok, I'll give you a hint. Agility reduces align time.

The answer is in the first post, I'll quote it for you but basically they do mass * agility = align_time.

Quote:
Agility (as a modifier on mass) affects the turning time (often measured as align time) of ships. Lower is better.
The align times listed below are for a hypothetical character with 0 skills.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#160 - 2014-01-21 15:50:22 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
You know what would be bad-ass? If you let inties keep their agility and instead split anchorable and dictor/hic bubbles into different categories, and then gave interceptors immunity to the anchorable variety. It would let inties blow past static defenses, but would leave active interference (gate camps, carefully-positioned and -timed hic/dic drag bubbles, etc) effective against them.

While you're at it, you can apply the same stat to T3 nullifier subsystems.

This is clearly the best idea, since there's no good reason for EVE ships to be categorically immune to other players' active, directed attempts to stop them.


This would be an epic change.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.