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[Rubicon 1.1] Interceptor Agility Tweak

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Author
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#201 - 2014-02-02 17:48:01 UTC
Mark Cato wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Rab See wrote:
And ... as mentioned ... why do "Interceptors" get less agility than their companion T1 Frig?

"This, along with superior maneuverability and speed" from the description - is absolute bollox.


Less time i checked T1 frigates didn't have Interdiction Nullifiers on it.


The obvious solution is to get rid of the Interdiction Nullification then. I'm not against the idea, but it would be better suited for a different ship class while keeping Interceptors (especially Fleet Interceptors) for their intended role. Unfortunately that would require CCP to publicly back down from an earlier descision, which is why I doubt the sensible route will be taken here.


Like most obvious solutions, its obvious because its overly simplistic and wrong. Bubbles only work in nullsec; this would leave the problem untouched in lowsec, and any other time there is no bubble present. Escaping gate camps reliably isnt a problem; evading return fire while effortlessly maintaining point because weapons cant reach you, cant track you, or get all their explosion damage speed tanked, especially in ceptor gangs, was out of control.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Talon Kane
ExeKrab
#202 - 2014-02-02 20:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon Kane
This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.

« I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer ».

♣♣♣ I offer a character pricecheck service ♣♣♣

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2014-02-03 01:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Talon Kane wrote:
This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.


80% of people in losec and hisec are not in inties.

That suggests to me the problem lies with SOV or maybe bubble mechanics.

Perhaps the fact that 80% of null use inties now suggests bubbles are too good ? Maybe even more ships need to be interdiction nullified BUT bubbles get some sort of other buff like an inherent effect on all ships align time in compensation?

The issue is a lot more complex than "boost inties/nerf inties"
Justin Cody
War Firm
#204 - 2014-02-03 01:12:28 UTC
JD No7 wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Here's a hypothetical question for you CCP. In your opinion, what sort of scan resolution should be required to catch an interceptor after it has just jumped through a stargate?


This. As it stands they are virtually uncatchable, even with sensor boosts etc. Stupidly easy to get a cyno into system now.



Actually they are easily caught with a boosted electronic attack frigate...and gang bonuses (just the leadership base skills not even counting links gives you 10% more scan res).

They are easily caught even when fully agility fitted. I'd know beucase I was caught and I have ceptors V and all relevant skills to V for navigation...fitting and...its an interceptor it should be bar none the fastest class of ship in the game. And to get a cyno in your system I'd have to at least fit a cargo rig on a crow (not the most agile or fastest) and also have cyno 5. And I have cyno 5. It isn't the most common skill to have maxed out though as it is niche for black ops/recon pilots.

Sure you can fit cargo expanders in your lows but that still gimps your agility and limits slot utility thanks to the cargo nerf to under 100m3.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#205 - 2014-02-03 01:35:16 UTC
Talon Kane wrote:
This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.


You're terrible and here's why:


  • Scan resolution is hard capped by CCP now under 3K
  • The scan resolution isn't about a *chance* to lock the target
  • The server operates on ticks and tocks, but your latency still matters. Lower latency means a more favorable response from the servers so if you're on dial-up still...get better internet service.
  • People use inties because they are still squishy enough where people will engage them instead of hiding in their POS shield or docked inside their outposts.
  • I don't understand how you lose anything ratting in null sec unless awox'd. Local chat is the most powerful intelligence tool in game. If it were delayed I could understand it...but this just means you're bad and should go back to high sec and learn to play eve again.
  • Inties are also used because they can warp through bubbles and make great shuttles or just good for killing silly mining groups with no protection. You 10+ account isboxers know who you are and you should get ganked every once in a while. It isj't wrong to use the ship...it is simply the natural counter to the ridiculous number of systems locked down by spammed bubbles. Or have you never been to any of the drone regions?
  • One web on a ceptor an its nearly done for if it engages...you can also use ECM, target painters, smartbombs, rapid light missile launchers, quad light beam lasers, 75mm gatling rails, 125mm light ac's, warrior II drones, remote sensor boosters, cheap t1 frigates with nearly the same speed and ehp that you can blob with, electronic attack frigates...the sentinel can insta-incap a ceptor from 30K.


I don't understand your crying. If you rat in a domi all you need is some energy neuts and to align and have a MJD ready. If he's long pointing from 30K+ he can't stop you from MJDing off and if he's in scram range you can neut the **** out of him and still warp or MJD. This is even more true for the armageddon. Other BS like the raven might not have quite the heavy neut power of the domi but you can figure it out can't you?

Most of all watch local chat...if its not blue align and warp out. Oh and don't rat like 20,000K from the gate...you are asking for it. By the way we bookmark your sites so if you come back to them and start on the same ones (as you do) we can just warp to a wreck that you're likely to be next to. Stop being bad...or keep it up so we can farm you harder. Either way ceptors aren't broken...they are just marginally better than they used to be for travel. You bears brought this on yourselves by walling up every system in Malpais.
Talon Kane
ExeKrab
#206 - 2014-02-03 02:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon Kane
Justin Cody wrote:


You're terrible and here's why:


  • Scan resolution is hard capped by CCP now under 3K
  • The scan resolution isn't about a *chance* to lock the target
  • The server operates on ticks and tocks, but your latency still matters. Lower latency means a more favorable response from the servers so if you're on dial-up still...get better internet service.
  • People use inties because they are still squishy enough where people will engage them instead of hiding in their POS shield or docked inside their outposts.
  • I don't understand how you lose anything ratting in null sec unless awox'd. Local chat is the most powerful intelligence tool in game. If it were delayed I could understand it...but this just means you're bad and should go back to high sec and learn to play eve again.
  • Inties are also used because they can warp through bubbles and make great shuttles or just good for killing silly mining groups with no protection. You 10+ account isboxers know who you are and you should get ganked every once in a while. It isj't wrong to use the ship...it is simply the natural counter to the ridiculous number of systems locked down by spammed bubbles. Or have you never been to any of the drone regions?
  • One web on a ceptor an its nearly done for if it engages...you can also use ECM, target painters, smartbombs, rapid light missile launchers, quad light beam lasers, 75mm gatling rails, 125mm light ac's, warrior II drones, remote sensor boosters, cheap t1 frigates with nearly the same speed and ehp that you can blob with, electronic attack frigates...the sentinel can insta-incap a ceptor from 30K.


I don't understand your crying. If you rat in a domi all you need is some energy neuts and to align and have a MJD ready. If he's long pointing from 30K+ he can't stop you from MJDing off and if he's in scram range you can neut the **** out of him and still warp or MJD. This is even more true for the armageddon. Other BS like the raven might not have quite the heavy neut power of the domi but you can figure it out can't you?

Most of all watch local chat...if its not blue align and warp out. Oh and don't rat like 20,000K from the gate...you are asking for it. By the way we bookmark your sites so if you come back to them and start on the same ones (as you do) we can just warp to a wreck that you're likely to be next to. Stop being bad...or keep it up so we can farm you harder. Either way ceptors aren't broken...they are just marginally better than they used to be for travel. You bears brought this on yourselves by walling up every system in Malpais.


I am not a ratter. In fact I've spent most of my playtime in the last month and a half trying to catch inties in 0.0

When I say *chance* to lock I mean out of 5 inty going through a gate, you'll catch 1...

We are not on dial-up internet... some of my mates have a 50 mbits stable connection... and also...I am not isboxing, I never will.

You obviously have no clue what people use inties for now...

I never said I was losing too many ships. You make up stories.

I am not complaining on the power of inties in pvp... I'm complaining because I see too many people flying 0.0 in inties and often flying this ship for another task than to *intercept*. Those too many pilots suddenly flying this ship means there is something wrong.

I am not terrible, you obviously are being a troll here. There was no need to tell me I'm terrible.

« I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer ».

♣♣♣ I offer a character pricecheck service ♣♣♣

Justin Cody
War Firm
#207 - 2014-02-03 22:24:15 UTC
you are terrible and no you shouldn't catch every single interceptor, nor even the majority because you want to. They are fast and agile. That means they can engage and disengage from a fight. Stop relying on bubbles for your pvp and camping like a retread. Just HTFU and go for a roam.

People fly them because getting caught in bubbles suck and you should at least have to try hard to point them. Jeeze you need everything served on a silver platter don'tcha my little snowflake?
Talon Kane
ExeKrab
#208 - 2014-02-03 22:58:07 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
you are terrible and no you shouldn't catch every single interceptor, nor even the majority because you want to. They are fast and agile. That means they can engage and disengage from a fight. Stop relying on bubbles for your pvp and camping like a retread. Just HTFU and go for a roam.

People fly them because getting caught in bubbles suck and you should at least have to try hard to point them. Jeeze you need everything served on a silver platter don'tcha my little snowflake?


You are stupid or just acting real hard like one?

In each of your posts you ignore half of what I write.

I am not only relying on bubbles you god damn ******, we have remoted inties to hardpoint them AND bubbles for the other ships.

Inties should be able to engage and disengage into MOST of the encounters, but they should not also serve as multi-purpose platform ship.
There is a ship to counter the gatecamping strat, its called transport ship, T3 nullifiers and covops and there are skills to counter it called warping on tactical celestials and using some of your brain + scouts.

I'm guessing you suck and get often caught in bubbles? Camping gates with 2-3 friends doesn't suck and can bring you small fleet pvp easily.

Now with your arrogant tone you've got me angry, which was unecessary, I was giving my opinion in respectful manner, but you stupid troll had to ruin it!

« I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer ».

♣♣♣ I offer a character pricecheck service ♣♣♣

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2014-02-05 01:11:06 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Talon Kane wrote:
This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.


80% of people in losec and hisec are not in inties.

That suggests to me the problem lies with SOV or maybe bubble mechanics.

Perhaps the fact that 80% of null use inties now suggests bubbles are too good ? Maybe even more ships need to be interdiction nullified BUT bubbles get some sort of other buff like an inherent effect on all ships align time in compensation?

The issue is a lot more complex than "boost inties/nerf inties"



The fastest ships on a grid should never have been given interdiction as a hull feature. Interdictors maybe so that you aren't bubbling yourself everytime you drop a bubble.

Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#210 - 2014-02-05 01:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiryen O'Bannon
The results pretty clearly indicate that giving them the feature was an incredibly good decision. Bubbles are being brought bank to something resembling balance. Bubbles are a major reason people dont try nullsec. With interceptors available, theres a ship new players can train into that lets them move about and see what nullsec is about without having to wait to have the money or skills to use a T3. It also plays to the new player traditional role of fast tackle. I'm sure I'll hear crying about how this is "dumbing it down" and will make new players not develop situational awareness, but constantly shitting bubbles on the entranes to nullsec and other systems where they are likely to first poke their nose in isnt going to teach them either.. except to teach them its not worth th effort.

If people want less "carebears in highsec", they better get used to the idea that it cant be EZ mode ambushing them at every nullsec gate. Of course, they can always come to lowsec, where there are no bubbles. Funny how that just keeps getting ignored.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Internetowy Krzyzowiec
Now.You.See.Me
#211 - 2014-02-05 13:02:11 UTC
interceptors agility has been nerfed because they were "impossible to catch" and yet there are still covop frigs that take less than a second to decloak and cloak again while warping away from gate
well done, well done
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#212 - 2014-02-05 16:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiryen O'Bannon
Very much so. It should simply be expected that there are some ships that will almost never get caught on a gate camp. Gate camping should not be an auto-win tactic. The fact that EVE provides such easily-identified choke points in the first place already makes it easy enough. Interceptors were not merely impossible to catch on a gate, they were almost impossible to catch anywhere else, which was the problem.

Furthermore, in the same bubbles that people are so worried about a covops frigate cannot simply cloak and warp. He (and any other covert ship) must cloak then make their way out of the bubble before warping. Interceptors on the other hand cannot cloak (or if they DO fit one, cannot warp with it on and must fit it at the expense of other things).

The ability to warp cloaked AND miss bubbles remains the province of the T3 cruiser, and only with a certain subsystem which is weaker relative to other subsystems in other ways.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Justin Cody
War Firm
#213 - 2014-02-06 21:06:11 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Talon Kane wrote:
This rubicon interceptor buff is one of the worst modification CCP has made so far...

How about we rename the game to: Interceptors Online ? Since it is almost the only ship you see roaming the null sec.

Interceptors have now become extremely versatiles, they are frequently used as: fleet roams, cyno ship, transport ships for extremely valuable items, scout and... oh yes, tacklers!

And this will only get worst once more people decide to train prop jamming...

And please don't think I'm lazy... my friends and I have been trying to find the perfect way to counter this stupid ship. We can catch a few from time to time, probably when the other pilot gets lagged out or something.

Remoted inties with 5000 scan resolution has 1 chance out of 5 to catch one?

Smartbomb BS seems the way to go but then you can only hope to catch inties and covops and pray not to lose 1 bs/night.

When 80% of people in null sec suddenly use inties, you know somethings wrong.


80% of people in losec and hisec are not in inties.

That suggests to me the problem lies with SOV or maybe bubble mechanics.

Perhaps the fact that 80% of null use inties now suggests bubbles are too good ? Maybe even more ships need to be interdiction nullified BUT bubbles get some sort of other buff like an inherent effect on all ships align time in compensation?

The issue is a lot more complex than "boost inties/nerf inties"



The fastest ships on a grid should never have been given interdiction as a hull feature. Interdictors maybe so that you aren't bubbling yourself everytime you drop a bubble.



you're wrong
Justin Cody
War Firm
#214 - 2014-02-06 21:07:12 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
The results pretty clearly indicate that giving them the feature was an incredibly good decision. Bubbles are being brought bank to something resembling balance. Bubbles are a major reason people dont try nullsec. With interceptors available, theres a ship new players can train into that lets them move about and see what nullsec is about without having to wait to have the money or skills to use a T3. It also plays to the new player traditional role of fast tackle. I'm sure I'll hear crying about how this is "dumbing it down" and will make new players not develop situational awareness, but constantly shitting bubbles on the entranes to nullsec and other systems where they are likely to first poke their nose in isnt going to teach them either.. except to teach them its not worth th effort.

If people want less "carebears in highsec", they better get used to the idea that it cant be EZ mode ambushing them at every nullsec gate. Of course, they can always come to lowsec, where there are no bubbles. Funny how that just keeps getting ignored.



keep up the good work. BNI is far more hardcore than most sov bears. Love you guys!
Justin Cody
War Firm
#215 - 2014-02-06 21:13:13 UTC
Talon Kane wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
you are terrible and no you shouldn't catch every single interceptor, nor even the majority because you want to. They are fast and agile. That means they can engage and disengage from a fight. Stop relying on bubbles for your pvp and camping like a retread. Just HTFU and go for a roam.

People fly them because getting caught in bubbles suck and you should at least have to try hard to point them. Jeeze you need everything served on a silver platter don'tcha my little snowflake?


You are stupid or just acting real hard like one?

In each of your posts you ignore half of what I write.

I am not only relying on bubbles you god damn ******, we have remoted inties to hardpoint them AND bubbles for the other ships.

Inties should be able to engage and disengage into MOST of the encounters, but they should not also serve as multi-purpose platform ship.
There is a ship to counter the gatecamping strat, its called transport ship, T3 nullifiers and covops and there are skills to counter it called warping on tactical celestials and using some of your brain + scouts.

I'm guessing you suck and get often caught in bubbles? Camping gates with 2-3 friends doesn't suck and can bring you small fleet pvp easily.

Now with your arrogant tone you've got me angry, which was unecessary, I was giving my opinion in respectful manner, but you stupid troll had to ruin it!




Shut up sov bear. Something fast and hard to catch will almost always be multi-purpose. It doesn't substitute assault frigs or EAS, or any other t2 frigate. It doesn't supplant T3's for a myriad of reasons the least of which your tiny brain cannot comprehend.

You are clearly relying on bubbles for primary tackle even if you have remote boosted everything on the gate. Transport ships do not have bubble immunity and no one is using inties instead of them for critical hauling. You giant null bears have jump bridges to get around critical areas and people roaming in your space don't have that advantage. Nevermind the cyno beacons for your cap movements.

yes I do get caught in bubbles as I don't have a complete set of tacticals for all the null sec systems in EVE thank you very much. I have some for popularly camped systems...but W-space openings are fairly random so going out to solo roam can often lead to me getting ganked by your 3 man crew with insta-locking long web everything from 50K.

OMG webs from 47K! *dies*. Also I am glad you are mad. I will drink those tears like fine scotch.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#216 - 2014-04-29 16:06:27 UTC
Altrue wrote:
LOL WTF ?

WIth Eve only ticking every second its already a pain to stay at point range when you're going that fast, yet here is an agility nerf ! :(

As long as they take more than one second to align (which is clearly the case here), interceptors are lockable. An agility nerf won't help incompetent people from trying (and failing) to lock interceptors with battleships, their complaints will remain. However, it will impair their combat ability. I mentionned point range, but what about, say, blaster range ? It's very VERY hard to fly already.

Edit : Actually the truth is that the minimum should be two seconds. But the point is still valid : Travel agility might need a nerf, but not combat agility.

See my new role bonus proposal in page two to adress both issues.




I have been through a lot of instalock camps with an intie and find that the instant I move, I'm locked (thank you, stabs). So the "hover the mouse over the overview once the scout says 'he's coming'" thing still works.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!