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ESS Discussion Thread

First post First post
Author
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#61 - 2014-01-16 04:29:23 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:

Oh how terrible, all the big nullsec blobbers agree that actually pvping to keep their ratters income up is a travesty. This is totally unacceptable, I mean do you actually mean that now we can't just dock up? Do you mean now we have to actually start protecting our renters and ratting income, tsk tsk, totally unacceptable.

Anyways the only issue I find with it is the time to steal is very short, 60 secs is way too low, it should at least be 3 mins and 5 mins ideally. Give time for actual ships to warp there.

And it's not a nerf if you deploy this right and are willing to fight for the income. It will decrease it by 5% intially but has the potential to increase it by 25%, which is a significant boost in income.

The only thing worse than carebears is nullbears, because carebears are at least honest about it.


Ugh I hate nested quotes. But at any rate there is at the moment very little you can do to deal with a gang of 5 or so interceptors except run away. There is no way to force them into conflict with a force that could "Deal" with them.

Baiting them is ineffective because an interceptor with MWD running can allign/warp before a ship lands on grid.

Covert drops won't work because again, with MWD running they can warp out before the first ship loads grid.

Sitting cloaked on grid won't work because of decloak delay. You could in theory tackle with a bomber, but that would imply the interceptors weren't running a kiting missile fit with MWD's working (Sidebar: It's fast aligning fleet ceptors with missiles that are really causing all of the problems) and frankly... they will be. So that's pretty much out the window.

Interceptor gangs have always been dangerous to ratters, and with the warp speed buffs they would be even more so, but before you could force an engagement and actually "Defend" your space using bubbles and force them to fight hide or die. Now they can run in, kill something, run straight through the defensive gang meant to "kill them" and bounce down the pipe. The only thing you can really do is chase them around and hope they get tired of it and leave.

Before the inevitable comparison to a blops gang, bombers and the like are very vulnerable at gates, and are generally easy to counter drop if you know they are active. And that's kinda the point: There is a counter.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#62 - 2014-01-16 04:33:01 UTC
Genseric Tollaris wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
It's not unfair, it's broken. There's a difference. A hotdrop is generally "Unfair" to the recipient of a hotdrop. But it's not broken, it has a counter, and it has inherent risks and rewards. I realize you are dumb so you may not understand the inherent "Risk vs Reward" tenant that is the entire basis for this game and I'd spell it out but I'm honestly pretty lazy.


No, please do explain it to me. As though you were explaining it to a child. Explain to me how the ESS is broken and has no counter. Explain to me how it doesn't add to the risk v reward dimension. Explain how it won't be fixed if CCP finds that it really is broken and you're not just a whinging *****.



The initial nested quote that started this argument was me talking about the interceptor problem you inconsistent shitlord.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-01-16 04:34:49 UTC
WASPY69 wrote:
+1
The most useless, irrelevant addition to EVE in a long time. Not only that, but it spams local worse than Jita isk doublers...

"EVE System > *Person1* is now in proximity of the Encounter Surveilance System"
"EVE System > *Person2* is now in proximity of the Encounter Surveilance System"
"EVE System > None is now in proximity of the Encounter Surveilance System"
"EVE System > *Person1* is now in proximity of the Encounter Surveilance System"
"EVE System > None is now in proximity of the Encounter Surveilance System"

And it goes on and on and on and on... make it stahp!


^^^ This. I've seen the thing in action as well, 'Spam-o-tron 9001' is what it should be called.
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2014-01-16 04:36:52 UTC
Genseric Tollaris wrote:


Then how about you whiny fucks go back to high sec. You'll get the big isk and you can grief the hell out of all the carebears and pubbies and you won't have to worry about interceptors. Seriously. Why do you even null?


Because we'd kill everybody. ...which now that I think about it isn't a bad idea. Yeah, let's implement this, nerf null, make the game more imbalanced, **** off nullsec players, force them(all of them) to make their isk in highsec, except we awox, gank, pillage, steal and destroy everyone.. The more I think about it, the more I like it.Twisted

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-01-16 04:38:02 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
incursions and l4's dont generate a ton of isk.


Granted, you qualify this statement as "they generate loyalty points instead", but that is still bar none the stupidest thing I have ever heard anyone say on these forums.


what?

so you don't understand the difference between say, a pound of gold, and a wad of cash? you view them as equivalent?

if you mine gold out of the ground - you "create" dollars?.... no - you don't. ...

or are you just being thick on purpose? some sort of troll?

reminds me of this picture:

https://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1338/97/1338970066809.png


I get that you get this, but just to expand:

LP and the things you buy with it are actually an ISK sink which is a good thing. Rat bounties are an isk faucet as in they inject ISK into the economy out of the ~either~

The money you get from selling your LP gained items is moving from other players to you, thus it is not created out of nothing. It's a really simple concept and I'm at a loss as to why people don't get it.
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#66 - 2014-01-16 04:38:16 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Apparently stuffing sebos in a stilleto till it locks a pod in a second isn't enough.

Sweet baby Jesus ****ing Christ you're full of whine today.

A 5% income nerf... on 0.0 ratting... in a (albeit misguided and unpopular) attempt to add more structures to the game, killing 'ceptors became more difficult (lol, are you ****ing serious?), a minor amount of added risk is injected into the environment, and your insufferable pissyness reaches truly biblical proportions.

This is a growing trend in your alliance. The rage and tears are flowing a bit too openly. Tighten up.

Anyway, cheer up buddy. I'm sure the Keebler Elves will apologize for peeing in yer Cheerios eventually.
Xira Arienne
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-01-16 04:38:27 UTC
Ahh, Nullsec tears, the sweetest tears of them all...
Genseric Tollaris
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-01-16 04:39:03 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Honestly between uncatchable interceptors and this stupid thing, i can't see any real reason to do any moneymaking in null. I mean running an anom right now nets me about 60-70m/h. Meanwhile I can go run an incursion for 100m/h+ and the only risk is hating myself. I already do that.


I'm sorry that I've confused you again. I should have quoted you more carefully. Your whining did indeed include the ESS. Dumbass.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#69 - 2014-01-16 04:40:11 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
incursions and l4's dont generate a ton of isk.


Granted, you qualify this statement as "they generate loyalty points instead", but that is still bar none the stupidest thing I have ever heard anyone say on these forums.


what?

so you don't understand the difference between say, a pound of gold, and a wad of cash? you view them as equivalent?

if you mine gold out of the ground - you "create" dollars?.... no - you don't. ...

or are you just being thick on purpose? some sort of troll?

reminds me of this picture:

https://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1338/97/1338970066809.png


I get that you get this, but just to expand:

LP and the things you buy with it are actually an ISK sink which is a good thing. Rat bounties are an isk faucet as in they inject ISK into the economy out of the ~either~

The money you get from selling your LP gained items is moving from other players to you, thus it is not created out of nothing. It's a really simple concept and I'm at a loss as to why people don't get it.


Ah, I thought she was talking about the end result for the individual player?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Genseric Tollaris
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-01-16 04:43:32 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:
Genseric Tollaris wrote:


Then how about you whiny fucks go back to high sec. You'll get the big isk and you can grief the hell out of all the carebears and pubbies and you won't have to worry about interceptors. Seriously. Why do you even null?


Because we'd kill everybody. ...which now that I think about it isn't a bad idea. Yeah, let's implement this, nerf null, make the game more imbalanced, **** off nullsec players, force them(all of them) to make their isk in highsec, except we awox, gank, pillage, steal and destroy everyone.. The more I think about it, the more I like it.Twisted


Sounds good to me too, that's why I suggested it. Null should be voting with its feet and leaving if its such ****.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#71 - 2014-01-16 04:46:46 UTC
I see this thing as another focal point in PGC.

Funny thing about PGC. It's ******* awesome until it happens to you.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#72 - 2014-01-16 04:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
SmilingVagrant wrote:


Ugh I hate nested quotes. But at any rate there is at the moment very little you can do to deal with a gang of 5 or so interceptors except run away. There is no way to force them into conflict with a force that could "Deal" with them.

Baiting them is ineffective because an interceptor with MWD running can allign/warp before a ship lands on grid.

Covert drops won't work because again, with MWD running they can warp out before the first ship loads grid.

Sitting cloaked on grid won't work because of decloak delay. You could in theory tackle with a bomber, but that would imply the interceptors weren't running a kiting missile fit with MWD's working (Sidebar: It's fast aligning fleet ceptors with missiles that are really causing all of the problems) and frankly... they will be. So that's pretty much out the window.

Interceptor gangs have always been dangerous to ratters, and with the warp speed buffs they would be even more so, but before you could force an engagement and actually "Defend" your space using bubbles and force them to fight hide or die. Now they can run in, kill something, run straight through the defensive gang meant to "kill them" and bounce down the pipe. The only thing you can really do is chase them around and hope they get tired of it and leave.

Before the inevitable comparison to a blops gang, bombers and the like are very vulnerable at gates, and are generally easy to counter drop if you know they are active. And that's kinda the point: There is a counter.


I don't know what "nested" quotes are, does it mean sarcastic ones?

Anyways if intys are a problem by always "running away" then godforbid you actually keep 1 ship to guard the module, or you know actually kill it. At the end of the day even if they heavily outnumber the enemy, ceptors have a very poor ability to actually fight. So if ceptors are a big problem just keep a vaga that can kill a bunch of them. If there is like 50 of them, oh god forbid you have to actually to form up to protect your income.

Worst case scenario, please tell me you are not ratting when there is a 50 man inty gang roaming around, you just destroy the ****** module when they leave system.

Adapt or die, nullseccers have been moaning and whinning about "farms and fields" since forever and once it gets started the whinning against it begins. Maybe by "farms and fields" they meant systems they can plow but cannot be raided?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#73 - 2014-01-16 04:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Joan Greywind wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:


Ugh I hate nested quotes. But at any rate there is at the moment very little you can do to deal with a gang of 5 or so interceptors except run away. There is no way to force them into conflict with a force that could "Deal" with them.

Baiting them is ineffective because an interceptor with MWD running can allign/warp before a ship lands on grid.

Covert drops won't work because again, with MWD running they can warp out before the first ship loads grid.

Sitting cloaked on grid won't work because of decloak delay. You could in theory tackle with a bomber, but that would imply the interceptors weren't running a kiting missile fit with MWD's working (Sidebar: It's fast aligning fleet ceptors with missiles that are really causing all of the problems) and frankly... they will be. So that's pretty much out the window.

Interceptor gangs have always been dangerous to ratters, and with the warp speed buffs they would be even more so, but before you could force an engagement and actually "Defend" your space using bubbles and force them to fight hide or die. Now they can run in, kill something, run straight through the defensive gang meant to "kill them" and bounce down the pipe. The only thing you can really do is chase them around and hope they get tired of it and leave.

Before the inevitable comparison to a blops gang, bombers and the like are very vulnerable at gates, and are generally easy to counter drop if you know they are active. And that's kinda the point: There is a counter.


I don't know what "nested" quotes are, does it mean sarcastic ones?

Anyways if intys are a problem by always "running away" then godforbid you actually keep 1 ship to guard the module, or you know actually kill it. At the end of the day even if they heavily outnumber the enemy, ceptors have a very poor ability to actually fight. So if ceptors are a big problem just keep a vaga that can kill a bunch of them. If there is like 50 of them, oh god forbid you have to actually to form up to protect your income.

Worst case scenario, please tell me you are not ratting when there is a 50 man inty gang roaming around, you just destroy the ****** module when they leave system.

Adapt or die, nullseccers have been moaning and whinning about "farms and fields" since forever and once it gets started the whinning against it begins. Maybe by "farms and fields" they meant systems they can plow but cannot be raided?


Are you illiterate? Start with the post where you quoted me regarding interceptors and work your way up to here.

Hint: It has nothing to do with the ESS.

Double Hint: A vagabond cannot catch or kill a malediction right now unless he screws up in a glorious method.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#74 - 2014-01-16 04:53:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Ah, I thought she was talking about the end result for the individual player?


Nah it was very much a faucets vs sinks thing. Converting bounties to LP would be a bit of a pain, but overall good for the health of the economy.

Allthough according to CCP last year there was no major inflation problem and the graphs they were showing had the worst isk faucets being highsec. And that was before the nullsec anom nerf.
Decian Cor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-01-16 04:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Decian Cor
I don't presonally care too much, because I am nullsec to make capsules explode.

But making more risk (null sec) = less isk sounds pretty back asswards.

Also, please send more pods.

[u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u]

http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#76 - 2014-01-16 04:58:24 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:


Are you illiterate? Start with the post where you quoted me regarding interceptors and work your way up to here.

Hint: It has nothing to do with the ESS.

Double Hint: A vagabond cannot catch or kill a malediction right now unless he screws up in a glorious method.


Yes personal insults have began, that means you are winning the argument right?

Anyways If you want to steal from the module you have to actually be in 2500m of it for 60 secs. If you can't kill an inty in that timeframe in a cruiser then I don't know what I can tell you.

If they don't orbit at 2500m it then it is a little harder to kill them (I am not here to teach you how to kill cepters) but hey they can't steal from you either. It is just the like the whinning about afk cloaking. Sure they are impossible to kill but if they don't actually decloak they can't hurt you.

And worst case scenario you kill the module, it has freighter hp and can be killed with a single ship. Yes you lose 5% of your income but hey if you can't defend your ****** system against a bunch of ceptors then you know what you deserve to lose more than 5%.

Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#77 - 2014-01-16 04:59:13 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Are you illiterate?

You are really losing your **** over this, aren't you?

Earlier today, in another thread where I posed the question "Do you consider the RL currency value of what you do in EVE?", you posted the following:

SmilingVagrant wrote:
No because I'm playing a video game turbo nerd.

And now, you're all charts and graphs and ISK faucet data and ERMAGERD 5% TO MAH RATTIN INCOMES.

Seriously buddy, choose a mindset and stick with it.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#78 - 2014-01-16 05:01:47 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:


Are you illiterate? Start with the post where you quoted me regarding interceptors and work your way up to here.

Hint: It has nothing to do with the ESS.

Double Hint: A vagabond cannot catch or kill a malediction right now unless he screws up in a glorious method.


Yes personal insults have began, that means you are winning the argument right?

Anyways If you want to steal from the module you have to actually be in 2500m of it for 60 secs. If you can't kill an inty in that timeframe in a cruiser then I don't know what I can tell you.

If they don't orbit at 2500m it then it is a little harder to kill them (I am not here to teach you how to kill cepters) but hey they can't steal from you either. It is just the like the whinning about afk cloaking. Sure they are impossible to kill but if they don't actually decloak they can't hurt you.

And worst case scenario you kill the module, it has freighter hp and can be killed with a single ship. Yes you lose 5% of your income but hey if you can't defend your ****** system against a bunch of ceptors then you know what you deserve to lose more than 5%.



No I'm calling you illiterate because I wasn't talking about the ESS when you engaged me, I was making a comment on the inability to secure any space no matter how much effort is due to the current meta fast align kiting interceptors have added, I have clearly and overtly stated this directly at least once, yet you still bring the ESS up as if it was winning you the argument. But please talk about he counters to the ESS again because the next time it will totally be what I was talking about when you first quoted me and started this idiot discussion.
Genseric Tollaris
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-01-16 05:03:24 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:


Are you illiterate? Start with the post where you quoted me regarding interceptors and work your way up to here.

Hint: It has nothing to do with the ESS.

Double Hint: A vagabond cannot catch or kill a malediction right now unless he screws up in a glorious method.


Yes personal insults have began, that means you are winning the argument right?

Anyways If you want to steal from the module you have to actually be in 2500m of it for 60 secs. If you can't kill an inty in that timeframe in a cruiser then I don't know what I can tell you.

If they don't orbit at 2500m it then it is a little harder to kill them (I am not here to teach you how to kill cepters) but hey they can't steal from you either. It is just the like the whinning about afk cloaking. Sure they are impossible to kill but if they don't actually decloak they can't hurt you.

And worst case scenario you kill the module, it has freighter hp and can be killed with a single ship. Yes you lose 5% of your income but hey if you can't defend your ****** system against a bunch of ceptors then you know what you deserve to lose more than 5%.



No I'm calling you illiterate because I wasn't talking about the ESS when you engaged me, I was making a comment on the inability to secure any space no matter how much effort is due to the current meta fast align kiting interceptors have added, I have clearly and overtly stated this directly at least once, yet you still bring the ESS up as if it was winning you the argument. But please talk about he counters to the ESS again because the next time it will totally be what I was talking about when you first quoted me and started this idiot discussion.


You've really gone full ******. Get up, get a drink, take a break.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#80 - 2014-01-16 05:03:33 UTC
But yes now that you mention it the ESS adds an even bigger layer of obnoxious over "living" in nullsec rather than just fighting over it and going somewhere else to make isk like 99% of the other nullsec owners.