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The Cost of Nothing (ISK =/= $ Discussion)
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Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#1 - 2014-01-15 20:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical 101
http://isk.thealphacompany.net/

When you buy a ship, purchase modules, invest in caps, pick up a BPO, open the market, set out on a mission, undock in a fleet for some PvP, throw up (or take down) a POS, begin research and do anything and everything else that either involves or potentially involves the loss or gain of ISK... do you put a dollar value on it?

This isn't a question about RMT, PLEX or even ISK really, rather, I'm asking if you assign real world values to that which takes place in EVE, or do you ignore the articles that refer to how X person embezzled Y amount of ISK from of Z bank and put a down payment on their new home or fixed their car with it and just perceive all this as "entertainment"?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2014-01-15 20:05:30 UTC
Just another tool for tool's to use when creating whine threads about how much people took from their poorly protected corp assets, or to place a monetary value on their epeens, or to stroke epeens when you ***** on a juicy mail.



Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#3 - 2014-01-15 20:11:41 UTC
I can't get the money (without ban) so it really doesn't matter
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#4 - 2014-01-15 20:13:49 UTC
A good point. I've found that people who try to live off PLEX are, generally speaking, never actually enjoying the game as much as people who just pony-up the subscription fees and forget about it. To a PLEX addict, EvE has become a job. A chore. I already have a real job, thanks, I don't need a second one. I play EvE (and games in general) to relax and have fun, not make some kinds of stupid quota.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
#5 - 2014-01-15 20:14:12 UTC
It is kind of amusing to hear the "dollar value" of some of the impressive heists and scams in EVE. I can't say I've ever attached a dollar value to it myself though.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2014-01-15 20:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Logical 101 wrote:
http://isk.thealphacompany.net/

When you buy a ship, purchase modules, invest in caps, pick up a BPO, open the market, set out on a mission, undock in a fleet for some PvP, throw up (or take down) a POS, begin research and do anything and everything else that either involves or potentially involves the loss or gain of ISK... do you put a dollar value on it?


Occasionally I do, mentally, but its never something I act on. I don't sell my deadspace loot and OPE and turn around and buy plex, its sort of an academic thing, for my own amusement.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#7 - 2014-01-15 20:41:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
I find it more amusing that people don't put isk value on anything they do. For example, a few of the T3 subsystems sell for LESS then they cost to build. its like people who run sits and salvage and make unit x think the salvage comes out of thin air, so if they sell it for less then two nano ribbons, then they are making isk.

So I really don't think most people place a real world value on their stuff. Esp if 99% can't be bothered to put an isk values on there own labor.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2014-01-15 20:44:17 UTC
It's situational.

When you are talking about RMTing or people who use their gametime specifically to earn a PLEX... it makes sense to covert ISK to $$ and/or do a cost-benefit thing.

In any other matter though, it only has pure comedic value.

How did you Veterans start?
Etria Issen
Imperial Varista
#9 - 2014-01-15 20:47:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
It's situational.

When you are talking about RMTing or people who use their gametime specifically to earn a PLEX... it makes sense to covert ISK to $$ and/or do a cost-benefit thing.

In any other matter though, it only has pure comedic value.


Though it does sound infinitely more awesome to say "I killed someone flying a $1000 ship." then to say "Yeah, their ship was worth a few billion ISK." to someone.

They have no idea how much ISK is worth, but they can get an idea of a dollar amount...

Note: I did not even convert that ISK to USD, so I just made up numbers.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#10 - 2014-01-15 21:01:07 UTC
I thought about it the other day. I'd won about 100mil ISK betting on NFL games in EVE Bet. It took a couple of weeks and several high-risk bets, but I doubled my investment. I was pretty primed about that 100mil , but then I realized all my winnings were worth about US. $3.33. Sad
Marsha Mallow
#11 - 2014-01-15 21:06:17 UTC
You can't discuss ISK vs RL values without considering time and how people value it at an individual level. It's really there that perceptions of earned/wasted/enjoyed are relevant.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-01-15 21:18:37 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
You can't discuss ISK vs RL values without considering time and how people value it at an individual level. It's really there that perceptions of earned/wasted/enjoyed are relevant.

The whole "time is money" argument is irrelevent. It's the last breath argument for the people who believe that someday someone will pay them to play video games and they won't have to get a real job.

The economy is based on supply and demand. If it drops often, and lots of people do it, then supplyt is higher then demand and the item is cheap, if it's a rare dop and demand is high, then it's an expensive item. It doesnt matter if it took you 15 seconds or 15 days to get any said item. No one is paying you to play a game.
You are not being paid to play games, get that idea out of you're head. Once you do, then you'll realize, the ore really is free.
Spurty
#13 - 2014-01-15 21:21:32 UTC
I used to keep a note of people that would laugh I you ran a mission and didn't blitz it as you were not making optimal isk per hour .

Sort of people who whatever you did, you were wasting your time because there were faster and more efficient ways to do it.

Morons that miss the point that "sometimes you just want to take it slow and enjoy the fire works."

List got too Long so I stopped telling them what I was really doing.

It's still just a game to me. No matter how frustrated that'll make the diehards and their ilk

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Marsha Mallow
#14 - 2014-01-15 21:28:17 UTC
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
You can't discuss ISK vs RL values without considering time and how people value it at an individual level. It's really there that perceptions of earned/wasted/enjoyed are relevant.

The whole "time is money" argument is irrelevent. It's the last breath argument for the people who believe that someday someone will pay them to play video games and they won't have to get a real job.

The economy is based on supply and demand. If it drops often, and lots of people do it, then supplyt is higher then demand and the item is cheap, if it's a rare dop and demand is high, then it's an expensive item. It doesnt matter if it took you 15 seconds or 15 days to get any said item. No one is paying you to play a game.
You are not being paid to play games, get that idea out of you're head. Once you do, then you'll realize, the ore really is free.

I don't mean time vs money or opportunity cost. I'm talking purely about how people value their own time and how they 'spend it'. It isn't uniform, and it doesn't always have any type of monetary value attached.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-01-15 21:29:39 UTC
Logical 101 wrote:
When you buy a ship, purchase modules, invest in caps, pick up a BPO, open the market, set out on a mission, undock in a fleet for some PvP, throw up (or take down) a POS, begin research and do anything and everything else that either involves or potentially involves the loss or gain of ISK... do you put a dollar value on it?


No.


...it makes my killboard less painful that way.

Dodixie > Hek
trader joes Ichinumi
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-01-15 22:29:21 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
A good point. I've found that people who try to live off PLEX are, generally speaking, never actually enjoying the game as much as people who just pony-up the subscription fees and forget about it. To a PLEX addict, EvE has become a job. A chore. I already have a real job, thanks, I don't need a second one. I play EvE (and games in general) to relax and have fun, not make some kinds of stupid quota.


Completely agreed. I had recently rejoined. My character had 200k isk to his name. My friend gave me enough to buy +3 implants(the only purchase I really wanted) and I had a lot of fun spending a few weeks working my guy up to 10 million isk.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-01-15 23:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
DaReaper wrote:
I find it more amusing that people don't put isk value on anything they do. For example, a few of the T3 subsystems sell for LESS then they cost to build. its like people who run sits and salvage and make unit x think the salvage comes out of thin air, so if they sell it for less then two nano ribbons, then they are making isk.

So I really don't think most people place a real world value on their stuff. Esp if 99% can't be bothered to put an isk values on there own labor.



I had a very frustrating discussion along these line with someone recently ...

THEM ... I sell quite a few Vexor cruisers a week at ## ISK each cruiser.

ME ... so let me get this straight you sell Vexors for below cost ?

THEM ... no of course not I buy my mats really cheap and even mine some myself.

ME ... but if you sold those mats at current Dodi market sell you would make way more ISK then you get from making cruisers at your current pricing. You are making a loss.

THEM ... no no no as I said I buy the mats really cheap and even mine some of them

ME ... gives up and makes a note of where to buy Gallente Cruisers for below production cost
Mag's
Azn Empire
#18 - 2014-01-15 23:34:28 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
I find it more amusing that people don't put isk value on anything they do. For example, a few of the T3 subsystems sell for LESS then they cost to build. its like people who run sits and salvage and make unit x think the salvage comes out of thin air, so if they sell it for less then two nano ribbons, then they are making isk.

So I really don't think most people place a real world value on their stuff. Esp if 99% can't be bothered to put an isk values on there own labor.



I had a very frustrating discussion along these line with someone recently ...

THEM ... I sell quite a few Vexor cruisers a week at ## ISK each cruiser.

ME ... so let me get this straight you sell Vexors for below cost ?

THEM ... no of course not I buy my mats really cheap and even mine some myself.

ME ... but if you sold those mats at current Dodi market sell you would make way more ISK then you get from making cruisers at your current pricing. You are making a loss.

THEM ... no no no as I said I buy the mats really cheap and even mine some of them

ME ... gives up and makes a note of where to buy Gallente Cruisers for below production cost
But, but, the minerals I mine are free........... Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lady Areola Fappington
#19 - 2014-01-15 23:45:41 UTC
I pretty much only use the ISK to $$$ conversion when discussing EVE shenanigans with non-eve players. Nobody understands what ISK is, everyone gets the value of a US dollar.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-01-15 23:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I pretty much only use the ISK to $$$ conversion when discussing EVE shenanigans with non-eve players. Nobody understands what ISK is, everyone gets the value of a US dollar.


That could be embarrassing ...

Player: "EVE is awesome, I harassed this mining guy for two hours and he eventually gave me 10 million to go away !!"

Non-player: "Wow, you made 10 million in 2 hours? that is cool, ummh how much is 10 million, is it a lot ? "

Player: "ummmh ... about 35 US cents real money"
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