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[Idea] for new players to eve

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Author
Zan Callira
Sebiestor Tribe
#1 - 2014-01-14 18:07:25 UTC
Look, since the number of subscribers in EVE has been dropping off dramatically, I thought that what EVE really needs is a REAL hook to reel in the new players. The best I could come up with is a new take on your first 5 minutes of EVE. And then I looked into the other games I play to build up my character. Well, how about a harsh take on reality with a game like Need For Speed: Underground? Example:

- Player N just clicked the [OK] button on character selection.

- Player N is whisked away to a random spot in nullsec (not a part of the full tranquility server so no other players in the system with you), armed with a battleship, and the ever-present Aura guiding with tutorials. (i.e. warp off station, go to sun, go to planet, dock at station, join fleet.)

- Player N joins fleet (NPCs), and is greeted by (scripted) greetings and rowdy banter typical to their chosen faction. Aura guiding on ins and outs of what your ship is, what fittings/rigs are and such. Player N finally gets through the last tutorial and fleet chat starts flashing, opening it, there's a convo about an enemy fleet approaching.

- A fleet member tells everyone to undock, Aura guides Player N to undock.

- A fleet member tells everyone to warp to gate and engage hostiles, once again Aura guides Player N to activate modules to help with tanking explaining a difference in shield, armor, and hull tanking.

- Coming out of warp, it's pure devastation. There's wrecks everywhere, heavy losses on both sides. Aura is helping slightly: aim at this target, click or use a button for this module. Once Player N scores a kill (scripted), the hostiles engage Player N and succeeds in not only killing his ship, but podding him as well.

- Clone activation: Aura appears during the black screen with a tutorial about clones, skills, and various other tips on what to do. Player N upon reaching the end of this tutorial, has to purchase his first Alpha Clone, as well as purchasing (on Aura's market) a noobship (that's all the money they have for it) and various fittings like mining lasers and shield boosters and skillbooks are still given freely through tutorials.

What do you think?

Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius

Ali Aras
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#2 - 2014-01-14 20:53:44 UTC
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/give_it_to_me_stephen_colbert.gif

This is a ******* amazing idea. Pod back to mission system, now you're in the more normal tutorial lineup, and *you know what's out there*. Retool the newbie missions to connect back to that experience (rebuilding your ship stocks?), and bam, it's a hook. It's the same hook you get from well-written fiction that does the whole in media res thing: you skip the boring explanatory setup baloney because nobody wants to read pages of worldbuilding before they get to the good parts.

Problems I can spot: I think this would be annoying on your 2nd or 3rd or 4th or nth alt. If there's a way to skip it, idiot noobs will too ("hurrr I don't need a manual I'm a hardcore gamer"). There could be some smarter ways around it (I don't know what CCP knows about "a player", but, defaulting it to off and offering it as an option if they're sufficiently "a vet" might be useful).

That's it. I'm sure some CCPer could find more-- I'll pass this link to the person I think would be most interested in it, and maybe they'll come post. But, holy hell this would be so many light-years better than what we have now. It'd probably have to wait until the "new content tools" mentioned in the CSM minutes-- CCP's PVE-setup (and this is PvE) is horribly broken atm, making adding new PvE content, er, challenging.

Once it's not broken, though, selling this kind of intro should be easy. It's like a trailer for an expansion, except instead of paying out once it hooks / keeps hooked new players coming into your game.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Moya Aideron
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-01-14 21:04:51 UTC
brilliant suggestion
Ali Aras
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#4 - 2014-01-14 21:08:18 UTC
There's also the whole problem of, "well, how *do* you get the player in a BS when newbies don't start with all that?"

Easy: you start them with all that. Pod them back to station, and they've lost it all. What's that, if you undock in an unupgraded clone you lose skillpoints? GOOD TO KNOW THANKS TUTORIAL.

Basically this would teach a lot of the really niche parts of PvP all in one go, using the traditional RPG trope of "give the player a lot of power, then take it away" (see: Assassin's Creed, iirc the beginning of Mass Effect 2, others). People want to get it back, so boom, you've already got an idea of progress and progression. You can still even be a new capsuleer, woken up specifically for that battle WHEN SUDDENLY oops you get sent back to your newbie institution to relearn some things because of pod death.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-01-14 21:11:54 UTC
I like and Ali's suggestion except there has to be a way to keep the fool from running away from the podding so he can keep the skill list.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Ali Aras
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#6 - 2014-01-14 21:13:45 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I like and Ali's suggestion except there has to be a way to keep the fool from running away from the podding so he can keep the skill list.

m

What's that? Some sort of bubble that spits out of a ship, preventing warp? :D

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Samuel Caldara
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-14 21:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Samuel Caldara
I saw your comment on the post on The Mittani. I love it, its an instant hook and you would learn so much more.

The main advertising of EvE is the awesome fleet fights. If people come to eve because of the market or some of the other niche stuff they have heard about they are already hooked. Its the people that CCP gets from the adverts that we need to convince.

Capsuleers have to graduate from a school before they can be qualified to step in a pod. I'm almost imagining a final exam type deal. This way we don't have to worry about podding/getting out of the simulation/anything else. When they start they are given the skills to fly the ships needed. When they are done, they go back to normal (and aura tells them this)

In a fleet fight almost every aspect of the game comes into play. You have logi boats, ECM, cap warfare, etc. Have a NPC Logi rep the player up from low armor/shield. Use a frigate neutralizer to cap the hell out of the player until he is useless - unable to hit the small frigate with his large guns. Then a pair of NPC destroyers can come in and save him.

The tutorial should be about establishing relationships between things. Big vs small, capacitor and mods, ECM vs DPS etc. The player doesn't need to know EVERYTHING about these things by the end of the tutorial. He merely needs to know that they exist. That cap warfare is a thing, logistics can save a ship, ECM is a ***** and big guns can't shoot small targets.

A tutorial like this will emphasize what can be gained from flying with other people. How different ship types can compliment each other and friends can come in and save the day.



Another thing to add though - I think a plug to Eve University is needed in game. Yes its favoring a group of players, get over it. The amount of help they will be able to give is significantly more than they are ever going to get from the starter corp and help channel.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#8 - 2014-01-14 21:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Mike Azariah wrote:
I like and Ali's suggestion except there has to be a way to keep the fool from running away from the podding so he can keep the skill list.

m


Not a problem if it's a random spot in nullsec. All you need is a dictor.

Hey, they can learn about bubbles, too! I love this idea.

[EDIT: Ninja'd by CSM.]

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#9 - 2014-01-14 21:17:36 UTC
CSM 7 (I think) suggested exactly this sort of thing at one of the summits. Now you are going to make me go back and look at summit minutes.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#10 - 2014-01-14 21:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Two step
Yeah, here it is: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/csm/CSM_CCP_Meeting_2012_05_30.pdf

Page 152:

Quote:
UAxDEATH :
Maybe you could put the noob into the middle of a fake fleet fight of some type, so he
gets a feel of what a real battle is like. And not just looking at it, but participating.

Trebor: To be honest, that sort of thing would probably work better as some sort of video you canwatch while the client is downloading. Sort of like a tour of the universe. For a noob, the depth and
complexity of doing the simplest stuff in EVE are so overwhelming that you can't expect them the
fly through a battle first thing they'll be totally lost.

UAxDEATH: As much as a video during the download would be beautiful, there's no amount of
training that can prepare you for a real fight. You just have to go into it.


Edit: Also, a bunch more a few pages later, on page 157

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2014-01-14 21:26:01 UTC
Wow, that is some serious trial by fire.

But this fleet thing, would it be like an NPC fleet? I mean, as much as i would like it to be a player fleet, its unlikely going to be that. How would aura know "undock now", "warp to xxxx", "bridge via titan".

I mean, it would be one thing if it a weekly thing planned ahead by CCP.
Ali Aras
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#12 - 2014-01-14 21:28:58 UTC
It'd be an NPC fleet, and Aura would know because the entire thing was scripted. Sure, it wouldn't be as amazing as a real thing, but if it's the first thing the player sees, the sense of bigness would still be there.

Two Step, that's awesome.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#13 - 2014-01-14 21:36:54 UTC
many games actually try this "fast forward" introduction but its easy to get it wrong esp in complex games. To pick an example, the introduction chapter of witcher 2 where you start with fairly high skills got the most criticism.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#14 - 2014-01-14 21:43:39 UTC
Don't allow people to skip the mission on their first character. Every other character can skip it.

Want to skip it on a new account? create a throwaway character. biomass it. You can now skip it.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ali Aras
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#15 - 2014-01-14 22:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Aras
Bienator II wrote:
many games actually try this "fast forward" introduction but its easy to get it wrong esp in complex games. To pick an example, the introduction chapter of witcher 2 where you start with fairly high skills got the most criticism.

What makes those games failures?

edit: if it's not clear, I say this not because I'm questioning your assessment or can't use google, but just because it's sometimes useful to think about what parts of a thing work and what don't by looking at other examples.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Algol Bailiwick
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-01-14 22:21:33 UTC
We used to be closer to this, when you started the game in space being shot at by 2 rats. It wasn't much, but it was in space, and there was shooting.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-01-14 22:42:31 UTC
Hmmm. To get the actual size of it, a you would want capitals involved, probably some doomsday animations,
IcyMidnight
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#18 - 2014-01-14 23:13:36 UTC
This sounds like a great idea! It'd be great to tweak it so it still fits in the universe so as to not hurt the RP players. Worst case: it's a training simulation as you graduate from capsuleer training or whatever.

Getting players over the: dying is fun even though you have to buy a new ship (spacesuit) is key. We're immortal, people!
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2014-01-15 00:15:33 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
Create an account
log in
"Warning Friendly fleet is engaging hostiles..."
"Please open your inventory and select a ship."
"You have selected a battleship, Please open your inventory and right click on the modules and select fit to ship."
"your ship is fitted, please click undock"
"on the right you have your overview, please select the Cynosoral field"
"in the window above that, please press Warp To"
....
etc etc
"Please click on the [NPC Titan] and select target, then activate your guns by clicking on them"
"Warning a Doomday weapon has been activated"
"You are now being attacked "
"Your ship has been blown up"
"Oh no, your pod isnt able to get away"
"you are no longer able to fly battleships until the skill is trained"
Mission Complete: Trial by Fire


Do it, I will make trial accounts just to do that.
Samuel Caldara
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-01-15 02:59:13 UTC
You could also build into the small ships vs big ships into this too. Just have a segment where you have to try and shoot a frigate but can't. A play in like this isn't there to teach the new person everything. Its to show the new character that these relationships are there so they can go learn more about them.

Ship types in a battle, ammo, resistances, optimal and falloff, capacitor warfare, ewar, logistics, cynos, overheating, shield tank vs armor tank. You don't need to say "This is a Falcon, falcon's use ECM, this is what ECM does and how it works." NO! Instead the intro can put you through a short jam cycle, point out the ship that is doing it and have you blap it. You don't know HOW ECM works but you do know it exists which is far better than the average pilot ends up after the tutorial mission.
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