These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1621 - 2014-01-19 17:56:02 UTC
Kotaru wrote:
Listen to your subscribers - 4000 accounts were screwed over last night by your failure to fix the basic game. HED last night should have been shot at birth - you managed to turn the clock back 20 years in a single night. Stop playing with silly little toys (particularly this useless one)


I don't remember problems as prevalent as this five years ago when I joined. I have a theory that CCP have scaled back server performance or failed to upgrade over the years on account of the fact that they clear are tight up financially. I suspect that other games are renting space on tranquility like Dust which whilst not huge are nevertheless leaching resources from the array to the detriment of eve.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1622 - 2014-01-19 20:16:56 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Do you have any idea how ridiculous your statement is, when you won't use the isk generating module because it could cost you a few minutes of your time and risks a button pushing stabbed inty being caught and destroyed? Especially since you DON'T EVEN HAVE TO USE IT.

Certainly there are more pressing things for you to gripe about, because your stance is unjustifiably absurd!


Indeed, it's like complaining no small gang pvp exists already in null sec, then refusing to show up in a ship with something other than a cloak or the ability to hotdrop and demand pvp.

I'd LOVE to see some actual small gang pvp in null sec, but the bottom line is that attacking gangs aren't looking for pvp, they are looking for ganks, so they use ships with cloaks or that can blow through gate camps - yourself included.

Nobody will use the ESS module. Alliances have already been discussing bans and you can bet anyone in alliance putting one up will get ejected after maybe one warning. It causes drama with no real rewards so NO THANKS! People simply aren't going to use it NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU THINK THEY SHOULD.

When there is only risk and no worthwhile reward people seldom try the behavior.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1623 - 2014-01-19 20:18:21 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Kotaru wrote:
Listen to your subscribers - 4000 accounts were screwed over last night by your failure to fix the basic game. HED last night should have been shot at birth - you managed to turn the clock back 20 years in a single night. Stop playing with silly little toys (particularly this useless one)


I don't remember problems as prevalent as this five years ago when I joined. I have a theory that CCP have scaled back server performance or failed to upgrade over the years on account of the fact that they clear are tight up financially. I suspect that other games are renting space on tranquility like Dust which whilst not huge are nevertheless leaching resources from the array to the detriment of eve.


Maybe they could start by getting rid of their expensive economists and actually investing in some server lag reduction technologies ...
Fix Sov
#1624 - 2014-01-19 20:21:26 UTC
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Maybe they could start by getting rid of their expensive economists and actually investing in some server lag reduction technologies ...

This would require them making a fairly radical change to the way they process requests. I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening any time soon.

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1625 - 2014-01-19 20:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Muffet McStrudel
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
If you deploy it for yourself, you cannot defend it...you are ratting and the like.


This is the mentality that keeps people docked for days because there is an AFK cloaker in the system. Big smileBig smileBig smile

As a ratter you have just as many options available to you as those who seek to prey upon you. You are not welded into a particular ship, nor are you unable to change the fit of that ship to match the situation... and you certainly aren't cut off from the rest of your corp mates (and their hopefully well organized intel channels) as far as communications goes.

Prey mentality is self fulfilling.

And no, you lose nothing by not using this module. The reward reduction is going to come anyway and is an unrelated issue. So if you don't use the module your pay out is unchanged from what it would be anyway.


LOL - have you ever actually done any ratting?

1) Ratting fits are PVE fits. PVE fits cannot take on PVP fits. It's really just that simple.

2) better than 90% of nullsec "PVP" amounts to watching local for hostiles, only to find out when they do show up, they appear in a gang of 5-8 in cloaking ships or interceptors. The obvious reasons to choose these ships for "PVP" purposes is that they are nearly impossible to counter. Why should ratters in local engage you on your terms? Don't be daft.

3) The math has already been done. Starts at 80% (so 1M rat is an 800k rat), and then after 1.5 solo hours in a system the bounty goes to 82%. Whoopadeedoo. That's definitely worth blowing 30M isk on. Especially when I might need to guard it in a PVE vs PVP fit.

So basically PVP'rs are crying that they want another "I win" button, when they have plenty at their disposal already. Don't get pissed off at the nullsec residents because they have learned to work around gank tactics. Change your tactics.

Sooooo tired of having to waste time posting against a vocal but very small minority of the EVE players that cause "issues" for the rest of us.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1626 - 2014-01-19 20:46:54 UTC
Inspiration wrote:


Limiting troop mobility, automatically means a more modest role for big power blocks. They won't disappear, and there will be room for new ones to form and grow if the existing ones are more power projection constraint.



Amen. Start by nerfing how far someone can hot drop and you'll see a few more actual fights.

For that matter, nerf the hotdrop altogether. Funny how these "issues" we are having with the game now didn't really exist before hot drops and bridging titans.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1627 - 2014-01-19 20:53:31 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Kotaru wrote:
Listen to your subscribers - 4000 accounts were screwed over last night by your failure to fix the basic game. HED last night should have been shot at birth - you managed to turn the clock back 20 years in a single night. Stop playing with silly little toys (particularly this useless one)


I don't remember problems as prevalent as this five years ago when I joined. I have a theory that CCP have scaled back server performance or failed to upgrade over the years on account of the fact that they clear are tight up financially. I suspect that other games are renting space on tranquility like Dust which whilst not huge are nevertheless leaching resources from the array to the detriment of eve.


Then perhaps they could start making everyone pay for their accounts? 45k accounts were on at one time today. I assume that's $15 or the equivalent for each person on at the time. $675k in potential income a month and they can't fix server issues?
Fix Sov
#1628 - 2014-01-19 20:59:24 UTC
You do realize that everyone does pay for their account, right? Those plexing their account is actually paying more, because the people who buy the PLEXes pay more per month than the guy buying the PLEX would if he'd just paid for his account directly.

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1629 - 2014-01-19 21:32:49 UTC
Fix Sov wrote:
You do realize that everyone does pay for their account, right? Those plexing their account is actually paying more, because the people who buy the PLEXes pay more per month than the guy buying the PLEX would if he'd just paid for his account directly.


Well actually the people paying with isk aren't paying more, somebody else is paying for that account. Sure it's more $, but it also creates a bigger drain on the server - yeah I'm talking to the people that multibox 10+ accounts. Would they do that if they had to pay $150/month in cash? I'm betting not.

How many do you think would drop off the subs if everyone was forced to pay in cash? I'm betting new eden would lose about 1/3 of it's pilots. Fewer pilots, less lag, fewer issues to fix, especially if the technology is "better".

CCP has sort of driven this upon themselves. They wanted more people in null sec, so they nerfed empire, then they wanted more income and ballooned the number of subscribers. Interestingly enough, they still seem to have the same issues as they did 10 years ago. Server lag, node crashing are still around.

Anyway, this got off topic.

ESS isn't the new "driver" for small gang warfare in 0.0. There's 80 pages of feedback showing why. Nerf cloaking and hot dropping and then beef up nullsec with even more rewards and you'll get the small conflict drivers you want.
Zircon Dasher
#1630 - 2014-01-19 22:31:11 UTC
This thread is reminding me more and more of the Sifl and Olly Show


For the life of me I cannot figure out why.....

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Thead Enco
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1631 - 2014-01-19 22:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Thead Enco
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Querns wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

There's also no info on how long it takes this thing to power up, which is sort of important.


It´s 60 seconds.

I think he means "how long does it take for the ESS to go from 20% to 25% bounties" bit.


It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it´s a solo player it can take an hour or more.


I take it you never heard of "SOV bills" Which "Special Snowflake" can up with that mechanic? Calling this "********" would be too much of a compliment. All i see happening is even more space being used less (We need this like another hole in the head) because of this "padded room module" In addition has it occurred to you how many people pay their subscriptions with plex? Have you guys considered numbers of potential cancellations do to people cannot offered to pay with cash for their monthly subs???
Mackenzie Ayres
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1632 - 2014-01-20 00:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mackenzie Ayres
CCP Phantom wrote:
With the coming point release EVE Online: Rubicon 1.1 we will add more deployable structures:

  • Two new siphon variants, one to more efficiently stealing refined components and one to steal polymers
  • One unit to be deployable in nullsec called Encounter Surveillance System (ESS)


The bounties in Nullsec are lowered by 5%. An active ESS lowers the bounty payout even more down to a total of -20%. Interacting then with the ESS gives you back between 20% and 25% so that you end up with 100% to 105% bounty of the current bounty value. Interacting with the ESS will allow you then to cash in the collected bounties in form of tags which can be sold to the Empires. You can choose to take all the bounties for yourself or share the bounties amongst every contributor.

Please read the latest blog by CCP SoniClover which contains all the details about those new structures!


I don't think the reduction of bounty payouts in null of 5% is enough to warrant the risk an ESS brings. Maybe you should consider a reduction similar to NPC taxes of 11%. Concords gotta eat right? :)
Mackenzie Ayres
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1633 - 2014-01-20 00:21:21 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Querns wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

There's also no info on how long it takes this thing to power up, which is sort of important.


It´s 60 seconds.

I think he means "how long does it take for the ESS to go from 20% to 25% bounties" bit.


It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it´s a solo player it can take an hour or more.


I take it you never heard of "SOV bills" Which "Special Snowflake" can up with that mechanic? Calling this "********" would be too much of a compliment. All i see happening is even more space being used less (We need this like another hole in the head) because of this "padded room module" In addition has it occurred to you how many people pay their subscriptions with plex? Have you guys considered numbers of potential cancellations do to people cannot offered to pay with cash for their monthly subs???


Or maybe you'll have a lot more people using less space, since pilots would have to defend their space instead of running around PVPin in wars of stupidity. Which currently is being paid for by AFK empires of bots and R64 towers.

I suspect a few will burn out after this next patch :)
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1634 - 2014-01-20 01:02:56 UTC
To ensure i was not speaking out of my ass in my earlier post in this thread.....

I logged into SiSi and tried said module out

My previous post stands.....this is junk....you want to nerf bounties then please just do that shave the 5% off because that is what this module is going to do anyway. And we wont have another piece of trash floating about EvE.

I must have missed where not only is your isk inside this thing - but you also have to go through a BUBBLE to get to it.

I can see all the carriers and ratting ships lined up...going into a warp disruption bubble to get at their bounties.....yup we are all completely insane.

So....now i have to launch one of these (overpriced) modules.....then do what i would normally do....then change ships to go get said isk because taking my ratting ship inside a disruption bubble is the equivalent of stabbing myself in the eye with a knitting needle. If i am really quite daft i `take all` and end up with some fun tags which I then have to find a way to get to high sec to trade in. YaaaaY more fun game-play because hauling stuff around EvE is one of the best things in the game. Not to mention CCP do you really want a bunch of bitter angry null bears headed to high sec to turn in their tags? Cause last time I checked ganking freighters and shooting miners was supposed to be 'fun'.....perhaps this might not be a bad idea afterall because customer retention is such a high priority....

Yup exciting gameplay.....makes me want to keep paying for my accounts.

If you dont believe me.....got and try it out on SiSi - it is unbelievably not fun and I cannot believe that CCP will spend anymore time on developing this "feature".

All this module does is create problems in corps and alliances where some idiot will drop one and all hell will break loose.

I don't mean to use so much sarcasm in a post or be unfair or disrespectful. I still love my EvE....but these kinds of things make me question it.

That is my 2 cents....i have a feeling that it won't matter much since I have not seen a Dev post in quite some time. And that generally means you are circling the wagons to defend your actions....something you would never have to do if you said "Hey we have this idea - this is it....and then before having spent a bunch of time on it - heard from the player base in advance." I can assure you that when N3, PL, Goons et al agree on something you have touched a nerve.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1635 - 2014-01-20 01:17:59 UTC
I really don't understand all the whinning, nullbears have gotten pretty much what they asked for since 2008 when their representatives took over the CSM. If nullsec is a huge mess, enjoy what you begged for - pretty please give me X, Y and Z with a cherry on top CCP.

IMHO EVE began to get out of CCP's hands a long time ago when they nerfed supers because they were being used as haulers and not for what the devs had envisioned. Let the players play the game the way they want and not have to follow a set path thought out by, dare I write it, selfish nullbears and, oh the horror, implemented on their behalf by a dozen or so devs who were/are/always will be nullbears.
Bear
Fix Sov
#1636 - 2014-01-20 01:20:55 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
I really don't understand all the whinning, nullbears have gotten pretty much what they asked for since 2008

And hisec's been continuously nerfed since 2008 too, right?

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
McDarila
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1637 - 2014-01-20 05:21:59 UTC
I can confim that Get off my LAWN alliance is going to have KOS with this deployable. Next time just say your nerfing the rat rewards by 5%.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#1638 - 2014-01-20 06:27:48 UTC
It's soon Monday morning in Iceland, and people show up on the workplace where they earn a living.
Except CCP SoniClover, but that's probably the "earn" thing, not "show up" thing that's wrong...

No seriously, can we get an answer? After 5 days, CCP has yet to respond to any issue with the ESS.
I'm not particularly surprised, but still, it's always one step forwards, one step back with CCP.
Would have been nice with just two steps forward for a change.
Shvak
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1639 - 2014-01-20 07:59:56 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Turelus wrote:
I'm really hoping that the lack of any more replies from CCP means they're having internal meetings about what to do with the ESS.
Though sorry to say my belief is more on the lines of the CCP I have come to know which is them sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the issue (angry players) goes away. Sorry CCP but that is your normal MO.

Anyone from CCP willing to face the mob and post what the plans for the ESS are, will our feedback be taken seriously and in full or should we just shut up and HTFU before moving our assets to Osmon for SOE L4's? P


Unlikely, typically once the responses end it means the change will be implemented as originally proposed.


it will be something like this:

CCP Rise wrote:

.............
I also assure you that I am not ignoring negative feedback. There are absolutely a lot of people giving that in this thread. In the past when I've gotten negative feedback which is backed with well articulated arguments I don't hesitate to make changes (see industrial rebalance, electronic attack frig rebalance, battleship rebalance), but in this thread the majority of complaint is very disorganized and unhelpful, that's why I'm instead going with the positive feedback coming from the CSM, from our testing and from some posters here.



THIS^^ was CCP Rise response in the r/h rapid missile launchers rebalance topic. the fact that after rubicon rapid missile launchers sales went down to 50% of theyr previous number shows probably how good is "... the positive feedback coming from the CSM, from our testing..."
Evil



Rapid missile launchers Roll and the ESS are not on the same level of stupidity. The one RMLs you can ignore but an ESS which as I have stated before is an intelligence gathering tool and an ISK nerf is not just a stupid idea. It is so flawed as to be laughable. When you have to change other ship game mechanics to make it even remotely work as intended (sic) you have been sniffing too much white board cleaner Blink
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#1640 - 2014-01-20 09:39:34 UTC
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Kotaru wrote:
Listen to your subscribers - 4000 accounts were screwed over last night by your failure to fix the basic game. HED last night should have been shot at birth - you managed to turn the clock back 20 years in a single night. Stop playing with silly little toys (particularly this useless one)


I don't remember problems as prevalent as this five years ago when I joined. I have a theory that CCP have scaled back server performance or failed to upgrade over the years on account of the fact that they clear are tight up financially. I suspect that other games are renting space on tranquility like Dust which whilst not huge are nevertheless leaching resources from the array to the detriment of eve.


Then perhaps they could start making everyone pay for their accounts? 45k accounts were on at one time today. I assume that's $15 or the equivalent for each person on at the time. $675k in potential income a month and they can't fix server issues?

fixing the lag / tidi issue is not that simple, yet it' s been 2 years since tidi has been introduced, and yet, NOTHING has changed on this side of the game.

i remember some ppl said when tidi was introduced, that CCP would not do anything since tidi pushed back the need to actually improve server performances (whether adding power, or reducing / distributing the load).

and they were right!

CCP had 2 years to react, and they failed, they could have made the core server code scalable, they could have made it mutli threaded, they could have made the load dynamically shared on the nodes....yet nothing, but a few shy statement on how they think they should add more band aid solution like brain in a box.....

when i look back those 2 years, i only see mostly terrible "expansion", either screwing up mass ppl gameplay, removing features, introducing crappy ones like the ESS, and wasting dev time on side projects wich are doomed to fail before they are even born (dust)....

lately, tidi is kicking more often than ever, and there are more and more fights ending up with the server crashing......maybe it's time to actually WAKE THE F*** UP CCP!!!!