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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
blackpatch
Eighty Joule Brewery
Goonswarm Federation
#101 - 2014-01-14 16:26:53 UTC
- More of the Most Tedious Game Mechanic Ever Invented and
- A 5% nerf to ratting income!

Great job! Bonuses all around.

Really, though, have you noticed that node crashes are assumed consequences of bloc fleet fights? Or that sentries and the outsourcing of targeting have sent PVP hurtling into an insane wonderland?

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#102 - 2014-01-14 16:26:59 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Isn't there any legacy code that could stop you from introducing pointless stuff like ESS and/or MMJD?


No, but our long term goal is to have the ESS code become a legacy code that kills good ideas 7 years down the road.

to kill good ideas, you need some in the first place, and judjing by the past 3 expansion, you don't(you = CCP, not you personnaly)
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#103 - 2014-01-14 16:27:00 UTC
Nassus Ryn wrote:
Increase ratting reduction from 95% to 80% by default.

Decrease ratting reduction from deployed ESS to 5% (75% with ESS active.)

Increase ESS payout to 30% - 45% (105%-120%)



Result: Nullsec entities actually bother setting up and routinely operating ESS's in ratting systems. And ESS won't just be shot on sight due to being useless.

I imagine most would rather eat the 5% income nerf than bother operating an ESS at all.


Double this.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Mirthander Kane
Legion's Ruin
#104 - 2014-01-14 16:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirthander Kane
Not really someone that posts on forums alot, but for this I had to speak up.

The ESS is an incredibly over-complicated deployable that nerfs the crap out of ratters.
Like most of the other people are saying here, it is a mindless nerf to nullsec ratting (the only reason you would be doing nullsec ratting is to pay for your PVP ships/losses)
Thus, from the answers to the questions asked here, we can see that this is an atrocious mod.

I can understand why CCP thought this would shake things up, but it is absolutely just a nerf to ratting income, with a LOT of aspects to make it super annoying to try and rat going forward.
Should anyone actually use it in system (friendly or enemy) it will be a loss for anyone not getting to the ESS first.

The chances that anyone will 'share the loot' is effectively 0%. If you think otherwise, catch a wake up - this is EVE...

Thus, friendly toon drops this - all bounties are decreased to 80%.
Lets assume it will take about an hour with a few people ratting to boost to 105%, as a dev posted.
Woah, epic bonus... NOT!

Riiight... then we get to roaming bubble-immune enemies in inties or cloaky strategic cruisers. There are enough of those around to instantly see the %increase and steal all the loot tags as they warp through systems, before any ratter can even switch to a PVP ship, thus back to 80% bounties. And they can do this every few minutes.
Rinse, repeat.

If an enemy drops it in your space, it is at least something you can go try and kill before continuing to rat, but it is possible the enemy can just constantly plop these down anywhere in a system as soon as the previous one was destroyed - thus locking down a ratting system to 80% income indefinitely! And if they are in a cloaky ship - you cannot find and kill them.

Flying to the ESS in your ratting ship is basically a death sentence due to bubble.

So all in all - using this is in essence a 20% nerf to nullsec ratting... not only a 5% nerf, and will definitely not result in an increase in income.
And why will this only be in nullsec??

As someone that struggles to make enough ISK to pvp vs. the time it takes by doing nullsec ratting, this is one of the worst deployables in the history of EVE...
Seriously, please re-think this deployable.
Meditril
Minmatar Secret Service
Ushra'Khan
#105 - 2014-01-14 16:27:46 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Querns wrote:
I have more questions I hope you like questions

So say I happen upon an ESS and choose the "screw everyone, give me all the money" option. Printing the tags takes 40 seconds. Do I have to stay on grid with the ESS in order to get the tags, or can I warp off and come back after the tags are minted?


A can will drop with the tags in 40 seconds. So you can leave and come back. And hope you get to the can first Smile


I think you should consider changing this. Make the can automatically lock up if there are more than 1 uncloaked ships within the bubble. This would add more possibilitis for drama, since you could block the can by just sitting there and thus forcing a fight.
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#106 - 2014-01-14 16:28:00 UTC
Broadly speaking I approve.
I particularly like the high pitched whine the goonflies are emitting.

Consider allowing the hacking skill to frig with triggering payment levels at a more convenient time to the hacker.
Sitting in that hotspot long enough to complete a hack would be risk enough for the potential reward.
Yur Ko
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#107 - 2014-01-14 16:28:11 UTC
As I see it, the intention (of ESS introduction) is to induce more pvp in nullsec. Yet as is it won't cut it because no one in his own mind will ever launch it. The reasons are all listed already. So it'll net to pure nerf of nullsec pve.

If ever CCP want to make it usefull, the structure:
- should be only accessible to people with positive rating, so that random guy cannot reset it.
- should have more hp (a lot lot lot more), possibly invulnerability timer (think like SBU) - so that it's not a reasonable target for inties.
- should give higher bonus for all the trouble of defending a gun-less structure.

... or just nerf those inties ;)
Qoi
Exert Force
#108 - 2014-01-14 16:29:09 UTC
Will the different racial variants have different colors?

http://eve-industry.org

l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#109 - 2014-01-14 16:29:21 UTC
Enteron Anabente wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
heretic


You forgot again that interceptors are nullified, didn't you?

No I did not. But the heretic is good against interceptors.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#110 - 2014-01-14 16:30:23 UTC
There should be a pirate edition of the EES that allows players to leech FW LP.

It would finally give the farmers a reason to fight for their profit.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Turelus
Utassi Security
#111 - 2014-01-14 16:34:50 UTC
As posted to Twitter:

What I would see as a useful version of the ESS people will use.

-xx% in overall bounties but receive LP.
LP store is a form of ISK sink in that it takes ISK+LP for items which the eventually go boom.
It gives RP/Lore links from NullSec Alliances to their Empires, could even make it ONLY available to enlisted Sov Holders giving a reason for NullSec powers to work for the Empires.
Gives roaming gangs a smaller more killable target and goes towards the idea of players being able to mess with other Alliances income flow.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#112 - 2014-01-14 16:34:52 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Enteron Anabente wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
heretic


You forgot again that interceptors are nullified, didn't you?

No I did not. But the heretic is good against interceptors.

Lots of things are good against interceptors, when they decide not to use their invulnerable "can warp away before being locked" mode.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#113 - 2014-01-14 16:35:46 UTC
Enteron Anabente wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
heretic


You forgot again that interceptors are nullified, didn't you?

the idea in his post is that you use your own interceptor to tackle the enemy interceptor, and then your heretic to kill the enemy interceptor

whether you find this reasonable or not is up to you
ZergRushJohnny
The Order of Atlas
#114 - 2014-01-14 16:35:54 UTC
I'm not sure I like the "Beacon on Overview" method of displaying it. I just think its a little TOO obvious, for both attackers and defenders. It should still be visible, but I think something more like cosmic anoms. Still blatantly obvious if you bother to pull up your scanner, but requires a minimum of attention.
502 Bad Gateway
Doomheim
#115 - 2014-01-14 16:36:02 UTC
Yet another form of Taxation our Nullsec alliances will impose on us.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#116 - 2014-01-14 16:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Can I drop a ESS at a POS anchoring spot, then drop a POS there and online it?

I assume a ratter could drop a ESS right by an alt's ship. If a hostile is incoming, hit the share button, burn out of the bubble and warp. No need to wait around if you hit the share button.

Would it be viable to park a disco beside this thing, to catch interceptors? It would have to be less than a full disco, to make room for remote reps to keep the ESS alive. But an interceptor would still pop. And the pod; its not bubble immune.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Chalur Dallocort
SergalJerk
Winger Aerospace
#117 - 2014-01-14 16:38:09 UTC
502 Bad Gateway wrote:
Yet another form of Taxation our Nullsec alliances will impose on us.

Says the guy in a noob corp.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2014-01-14 16:41:53 UTC
The problems with this implementation basically boil down to two major issues:

1) Interceptors exist

Interceptors are currently bubble immune and cannot be locked before they warp off. They invalidate nearly any defense you'd put up to guard your ESS. A lot of the balance here assumes you can guard it, which isn't really the case. There's no real viable way to kill an interceptor before it gets there, and with the ability of the interceptor to steal, warp out, and warp back in in 40s to get its tags the inty is virtually unkillable. This may be more of an issue that giving bubble immunity to interceptors was simply a mistake, but it makes the intended balance here not work.

2) A massive inbalance in the risk/reward that makes it a bad bet

You're asking people to risk 15% of their income for a 5% boost. That's a bad bet, especially considering point 1: you can't really do anything to affect the odds. You're going to wind up in the red most of the time, and 5% is not enough for people to want to play this game. Plus, the fact you are dumb enough to deploy an ESS means you're suddenly going to get a lot more interceptors in your space and you will lose a lot more often: word will spread about the people dumb enough to drop ESS that you can steal from and interceptors will decend on your space, losing you the money you risked for the ess, and losing you the money you'd have made while you safe up because hostiles are in your ratting system.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Beidorion eldwardan
Tactically Armed Vanguard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#119 - 2014-01-14 16:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Beidorion eldwardan
Dear CCP " i dont give a rats behind about the nulsec playerbase " unless they are the pirates

( this is just asilly idea beyond belief )

and now to contractive questions

please put a cool down on the payout 5+ minutes otherwise the completely OP interceptors will suck dry the ESS's all over eve

please incluede all of eve in this silly idea and see how your high sec carebears will scream your forums full.


and please state the intended price level and seize of this module - due to the level of problems this silly thing is going to cause it schould NOT be usable by a frigate

and how many of these devil devises can be put in one system at a time
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2014-01-14 16:42:45 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Can I drop a ESS at a POS anchoring spot, then drop a POS there and online it?

I assume a ratter could drop a ESS right by an alt's ship. If a hostile is incoming, hit the share button, burn out of the bubble and warp. No need to wait around if you hit the share button.

You'd be better off training another ratter on that account and doing some 95% ESS-free ratting.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.