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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-01-14 15:47:20 UTC
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Querns wrote:
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Anything that reduces the amount of ISK introduced into the economy via faucets meets with my approval. So yay ESS.


Unfortunately, this is not strictly a reduction. In fact, at full strength, the ESS allows more isk to enter the economy than previously. Of course, if no one uses the ESSes, then yeah, it'd be an ISK sink due to the lower total bounties.


Don't overlook that it pays out in tags, a number of those will get destroyed, never cashed in at all for other reasons etc.

Overall I suspect it'll lead to reduction in ISK flowing in to the economy from rat bounties.


It only pays out in tags if you use the BOGART option. The Share option pays directly to wallets.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2014-01-14 15:47:50 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:

It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it´s a solo player it can take an hour or more.

Does each bounty, independent of the value have the same chance of triggering an increase? Are the increases 1%, .1%, or what?


Yes and yes.
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2014-01-14 15:48:34 UTC
And entire company of developers to come up with this? It seems to me that CCPs main goal lately has been to make it more difficult to earn isk casually in and already difficult and time consuming game. I guess everyone knows that when ISK becomes harder to accumulate the value of ISK vs. the cost of a PLEX is increased. So more shift toward pay to win, plus a subscription model me thinks this game company is struggling to balance it's books.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#44 - 2014-01-14 15:49:00 UTC
Isn't there any legacy code that could stop you from introducing pointless stuff like ESS and/or MMJD?

Invalid signature format
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2014-01-14 15:50:44 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
Dear CCP SoniClover (or Sonic Lover?)

Is there are cooldown for the "Take ISK/Tags" button? Or can 0.0 people just place an alt at the ESS and spam the button every 5 minutes to prevent roamers to get steal anything valuable?

Do you like the band Dire Straits?


The increased payout is reset each time the ESS is emptied, so you can do that, but then you´re never getting the full payout.

And yes, I do like Dire Straits very much (the band, not being in one).
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-01-14 15:51:37 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
I'm not really convinced the rewards for the ESS are worth the risk, here. You're asking people to put 15% of their bounties at risk for an additional 5-10%. Given the recent interceptor changes there's virtually no way to defend you space against an interceptor gang. The interceptor gang cannot be tackled or delayed, and can buzz every ESS with enough inties that they can easily kill any ratting ship that shows up (and most ratting ships are virtually powerless against an interceptor) and if somehow your defense gang gets there, bug out.

There's also no info on how long it takes this thing to power up, which is sort of important.

i dont think its gonna be the ratters that will put those up ;)

dibs on venal
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-01-14 15:51:49 UTC
This is definatelly going to give some goals for small gangs. For one I am happy how this feature turned out. Thank you CCP for listening in to CSM feedback.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#48 - 2014-01-14 15:53:08 UTC
Is it intended that you should not be able to guard the ESS with a POS? You said 100's of kilometres; how many 100's exactly? Nul sec rental empires will try to use these, but I think only roaming hostile murder gangs will profit.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-01-14 15:53:08 UTC
I have more questions I hope you like questions

So say I happen upon an ESS and choose the "screw everyone, give me all the money" option. Printing the tags takes 40 seconds. Do I have to stay on grid with the ESS in order to get the tags, or can I warp off and come back after the tags are minted?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2014-01-14 15:53:13 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Isn't there any legacy code that could stop you from introducing pointless stuff like ESS and/or MMJD?


No, but our long term goal is to have the ESS code become a legacy code that kills good ideas 7 years down the road.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#51 - 2014-01-14 15:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhir
I like the ESS. Gonna be great to force people out to fight rather than hiding in their pos.

Just one question. How 'easy' will it be to kill one?

Edit: derp, I must have skipped the line with EHP

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2014-01-14 15:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
I guess siphons didn't hurt nullsec enough, so we're going to get more arbitrary penalties? The ESS is a defacto 5% nerf to bounties. Putting one up is actively dangerous. It is a kaleidoscope of bad game design. If the purpose of this is to hurt nullsec ratters, it would have been easier to just nerf bounties. As currently designed, there is no reason to actually set these up and lots of reasons NOT to set them up, making them nothing more than a 5% nerf to bounties.

Quote:

The ESS has a global beacon, meaning it will be visible by all players, allowing them to warp directly to it. Note that the new scan-block deployable does not interfer with this.
The ESS has around 150.000 Hit Points (ca. 90000 structure, and 30000 each in armor and shield).
-
The ESS can be scooped up by the owner of the ESS (the player that deployed it).

So it's an easy target that depends on the reliability of random corp members with no regard for roles.

Quote:

The payout level of an ESS is reset if it is destroyed, scooped or when it is accessed and the system-wide pool is distributed.
-
The current payout level of the ESS is visible in the name of it, and can thus be seen anywhere in the system.
-
It takes time for the ESS to print the tags and hand them out, this time is 40 seconds.

The benefits of which are lost every time hostiles enter the system and feel like shooting it. And they can tell if it's worth it without even having to approach the ESS. If it's worth it, they can steal the isk in less time than it takes for people in system to switch ships.

Quote:

The ESS has a warp bubble with a radius of 15km. Warping to the ESS brings you to the edge of the bubble. This warp bubble has exactly the same functionality as a normal one.

This sure is meaningful in a game full of bubble-immune interceptors and strat cruisers.

Quote:

Anyone can access an ESS, not just the owner.

I too like giving isk to hostiles that pass through my space, there is nothing wrong with this plan.

edit:
Quote:

The increased payout is reset each time the ESS is emptied, so you can do that, but then you´re never getting the full payout.
-
A can will drop with the tags in 40 seconds. So you can leave and come back. And hope you get to the can first

Just when I thought it couldn't be made worse. An interceptor can warp in, push button, warp out, warp in, grab can, and warp out all with total impunity.

If the purpose of siphons is as an offensive siphon like module while including a nerf to nullsec ratting, this is just a massively over-complicated bounty-siphon. If they're intended to be something that ratters set up to enhance their income, this is laughable and betrays a deep and frightening lack of knowledge of nullsec mechanics.
Telon Londan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-01-14 15:54:35 UTC
How long will it take to scoop the ESS? Will it be possible to sit at the ESS with an alt and scoop it immediately as soon as a hostile enters local?
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2014-01-14 15:55:00 UTC
Querns wrote:
I have more questions I hope you like questions

So say I happen upon an ESS and choose the "screw everyone, give me all the money" option. Printing the tags takes 40 seconds. Do I have to stay on grid with the ESS in order to get the tags, or can I warp off and come back after the tags are minted?


A can will drop with the tags in 40 seconds. So you can leave and come back. And hope you get to the can first Smile
Lazei
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2014-01-14 15:55:47 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
This is definatelly going to give some goals for small gangs. For one I am happy how this feature turned out. Thank you CCP for listening in to CSM feedback.


What goals? Based on the information available no null sec ratter is going to bother with this. Maybe if they are in a dead end system and have scouts a jump or two out to see anyone coming so that they can click the button (such amazing gameplay experience btw) before hostiles make it to their system. Its just a pointless nerf to null sec ratting that will probably drive some people back to highsec and diminish your targets even more.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-01-14 15:56:49 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:

It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it´s a solo player it can take an hour or more.

Does each bounty, independent of the value have the same chance of triggering an increase? Are the increases 1%, .1%, or what?


Yes and yes.

Uh the second question wasn't yes/no

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#57 - 2014-01-14 15:56:56 UTC
Telon Londan wrote:
How long will it take to scoop the ESS? Will it be possible to sit at the ESS with an alt and scoop it immediately as soon as a hostile enters local?


It´s quick, so this is possible. Note that this resets the payout value and allows anyone to place an ESS of their own somewhere in the system to access the pool.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#58 - 2014-01-14 15:58:23 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:

It depends on the amount of activity in the system (as each bounty payout has a chance of triggering increase). If several people are ratting together it should take around 30 minutes. If it´s a solo player it can take an hour or more.

Does each bounty, independent of the value have the same chance of triggering an increase? Are the increases 1%, .1%, or what?


Yes and yes.

Uh the second question wasn't yes/no


Yeb, see that now, sorry Smile. It´s 1% per increase, so five triggers takes it to full. And before you ask, I´m not going to tell you what the chance is Big smile
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-01-14 16:00:01 UTC
You're supposed to make people want to live in nullsec more, not less.

No sig.
aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-01-14 16:00:22 UTC
as-is I can't possibly imagine anyone placing one of these to actually use, given how easy it is for interceptor gangs to swoop in and take the loot. The only people I see deploying it are people running around ratting space trying to find fights. really this is just another factor driving people away from nullsec pve, which is already awful enough as-is. Is this an effort to try to get more people into highsec incursion farming?