These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Very serious danger for all people who like to do missions in faction ships

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#61 - 2014-01-14 15:29:10 UTC
dexington wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
@stoicfaux: yes, there are exceptions but the rule is solid - they're not doing it for lulz, they're in it for the loot.


They are in for the lulz, the loot is just covering expenses.

After CCP introduced security status for tags suicide ganking has exploded, you no longer need to recycle alts or grind security status. A gank including security status costs some 30M pr player, which totals 15 dessies just short of 500M. You can go through the km's and see they are by no means getting rich of suicide ganks.

It's just like ganking miners, no one does that because you get rich. Ganking mission runners, is just taking miner ganking to the next level.

Of cause there are people who gank mission runners for profit, but they are a lot more selective in what they gank, compared to the seo system griefers.


Seems to me then, that clone tags need a hike in price. Obviously there is a demand for them. So time to make some profit.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-01-14 15:36:35 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
1.2bil cerb


Just WTF. That's more than I'd put on a brick tanked rattler. No wonder these people get popped.

Not aimed at quotee, by the way.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#63 - 2014-01-14 15:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


looking at the kills linked by the op and using the BC prices.

5b paladin
1.2bil cerb
3b paladin
1.4b Tengu
2.4b Kronos
3.1b CNR
2.4b CNR
2.6b Golem
4.3b mach
1.5b rattlesnake
2.8b Paladin
1.6b Tengu
2.3b Kronos
5.7b Golem
cheap domi that probably got MTU aggro
3.3b Golem
1.6b Tengu

these all look like profit kills. and I think I might have to take back my comment about whales.


Yep, and you'll notice not a SINGLE Damage control (unless I missed one Edit: i missed a couple, but lol DC on a 4+ bil mach) and at 1st pass I couldn't find any ECM drones either. Hell, most of the BS class ships didn't even have MJDs despite the fact that most of those kills are in 0.5 systems (or as i call them, the 'you damn near in low sec' systems).

The crazy thing about this is that none of those ships make significantly more isk than my flat 1 bil isk Machariel (i literally have one mod on my mach that is above t2 and that's the shield booster and it's not the most expensive one, sure faction gyros are nice but tech2 works fine and doesn't make you a gank target). Hell, to be honest most would make less isk than my fleet phoon.

Some people never learn that EVE is a game where laziness, stupidity and unawareness eventually get punished.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-01-14 15:55:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Yep, and you'll notice not a SINGLE Damage control (unless I missed one Edit: i missed a couple, but lol DC on a 4+ bil mach)

so: is Damage Control MUST HAVE or it is not?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2014-01-14 15:55:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


looking at the kills linked by the op and using the BC prices.

5b paladin
1.2bil cerb
3b paladin
1.4b Tengu
2.4b Kronos
3.1b CNR
2.4b CNR
2.6b Golem
4.3b mach
1.5b rattlesnake
2.8b Paladin
1.6b Tengu
2.3b Kronos
5.7b Golem
cheap domi that probably got MTU aggro
3.3b Golem
1.6b Tengu

these all look like profit kills. and I think I might have to take back my comment about whales.


Yep, and you'll notice not a SINGLE Damage control (unless I missed one Edit: i missed a couple, but lol DC on a 4+ bil mach) and at 1st pass I couldn't find any ECM drones either. Hell, most of the BS class ships didn't even have MJDs despite the fact that most of those kills are in 0.5 systems (or as i call them, the 'you damn near in low sec' systems).

The crazy thing about this is that none of those ships make significantly more isk than my flat 1 bil isk Machariel (i literally have one mod on my mach that is above t2 and that's the shield booster and it's not the most expensive one, sure faction gyros are nice but tech2 works fine and doesn't make you a gank target). Hell, to be honest most would make less isk than my fleet phoon.

Some people never learn that EVE is a game where laziness, stupidity and unawareness eventually get punished.



You fly your machariel unfit? Because its price is basically 1 bil.. :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#66 - 2014-01-14 16:07:38 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


looking at the kills linked by the op and using the BC prices.

5b paladin
1.2bil cerb
3b paladin
1.4b Tengu
2.4b Kronos
3.1b CNR
2.4b CNR
2.6b Golem
4.3b mach
1.5b rattlesnake
2.8b Paladin
1.6b Tengu
2.3b Kronos
5.7b Golem
cheap domi that probably got MTU aggro
3.3b Golem
1.6b Tengu

these all look like profit kills. and I think I might have to take back my comment about whales.


Yep, and you'll notice not a SINGLE Damage control (unless I missed one Edit: i missed a couple, but lol DC on a 4+ bil mach) and at 1st pass I couldn't find any ECM drones either. Hell, most of the BS class ships didn't even have MJDs despite the fact that most of those kills are in 0.5 systems (or as i call them, the 'you damn near in low sec' systems).

The crazy thing about this is that none of those ships make significantly more isk than my flat 1 bil isk Machariel (i literally have one mod on my mach that is above t2 and that's the shield booster and it's not the most expensive one, sure faction gyros are nice but tech2 works fine and doesn't make you a gank target). Hell, to be honest most would make less isk than my fleet phoon.

Some people never learn that EVE is a game where laziness, stupidity and unawareness eventually get punished.



You fly your machariel unfit? Because its price is basically 1 bil.. :P


775 mil is less than 1 bil.

http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=17738
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#67 - 2014-01-14 16:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


looking at the kills linked by the op and using the BC prices.

5b paladin
1.2bil cerb
3b paladin
1.4b Tengu
2.4b Kronos
3.1b CNR
2.4b CNR
2.6b Golem
4.3b mach
1.5b rattlesnake
2.8b Paladin
1.6b Tengu
2.3b Kronos
5.7b Golem
cheap domi that probably got MTU aggro
3.3b Golem
1.6b Tengu

these all look like profit kills. and I think I might have to take back my comment about whales.


The crazy thing about this is that none of those ships make significantly more isk than my flat 1 bil isk Machariel (i literally have one mod on my mach that is above t2 and that's the shield booster and it's not the most expensive one, sure faction gyros are nice but tech2 works fine and doesn't make you a gank target). Hell, to be honest most would make less isk than my fleet phoon.


This really. I just looked through those kills as well, and almost all of them have 500m or more in droppable mods (and very few only have 500m), which is the number you should care about. The exceptions were a t2 fit domi, and a CNR that had 200m in BCUs and a paper tank. You can get a very nicely fit machariel with about 300m in mods, but you can really cut it lower (pith xl + no faction damage mods causes some minor cpu issues). Once you get under 500m, or even further below 300m, the financial incentive to gank disappears, and even quicker if they're using tags. This has been an informative thread through, I think now if I took my mach into the SOE cluster I'd keep the fit under 200m. I'll save my nicer stuff for my middle-of-nowhere missioning and epic arc running.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-01-14 16:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You fly your machariel unfit? Because its price is basically 1 bil.. :P


The hull doesnt drop when it dies though. Nor do rigs so they can be ignored too.

It's about what is likely to drop i.e. mod & cargo value*50%


I've lost count of the number of times I've been scanned but I've never had anything worth the trouble. Could they kill me? Absolutely, without question. Is it worth their time, when there are insane things like 1.2b cerberus flying about? Not so much. The opportunity cost isnt worth it and there are many, many piñatas flying dumb who ARE worth it.

You can do nothing about being ganked for jollies - you can do a great deal to mitigate profit ganking, in general, peoples activities in EVE tend to revolve around money.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#69 - 2014-01-14 16:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Batelle wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


looking at the kills linked by the op and using the BC prices.

5b paladin
1.2bil cerb
3b paladin
1.4b Tengu
2.4b Kronos
3.1b CNR
2.4b CNR
2.6b Golem
4.3b mach
1.5b rattlesnake
2.8b Paladin
1.6b Tengu
2.3b Kronos
5.7b Golem
cheap domi that probably got MTU aggro
3.3b Golem
1.6b Tengu

these all look like profit kills. and I think I might have to take back my comment about whales.


The crazy thing about this is that none of those ships make significantly more isk than my flat 1 bil isk Machariel (i literally have one mod on my mach that is above t2 and that's the shield booster and it's not the most expensive one, sure faction gyros are nice but tech2 works fine and doesn't make you a gank target). Hell, to be honest most would make less isk than my fleet phoon.


This really. I just looked through those kills as well, and almost all of them have 500m or more in droppable mods (and very few only have 500m), which is the number you should care about. The exceptions were a t2 fit domi, and a CNR that had 200m in BCUs and a paper tank. You can get a very nicely fit machariel with about 300m in mods, but you can really cut it lower (pith xl + no faction damage mods causes some minor cpu issues). Once you get under 500m, or even further below 300m, the financial incentive to gank disappears, and even quicker if they're using tags. This has been an informative thread through, I think now if I took my mach into the SOE cluster I'd keep the fit under 200m. I'll save my nicer stuff for my middle-of-nowhere missioning and epic arc running.


Exactly this. I took one of the fits that got killed:
[Machariel, Blingy]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith X-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x6
Hornet II x5
Vespa II x6


And then I unblinged it:

[Machariel, Not Blingy ]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Domination 100MN Microwarpdrive
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x6
Hornet II x5
Vespa II x6

the bling fit costs 4.3 bil. The not bling fit cost 1.06 bil. The blingy fit is in NO WAY at all 3.24 bil better than the cheap fit.

The cheap fit has almost as much EHP, still tanks more than any lvl 4 will ever require and has better damage application to boot. Not very far off what i actually use. I doubt that bling boat would be able to complete even 1 more mission per hour than the cheap one.

Some people just don't know the game they are playing. in a game where people can't shoot you without some pvp flag you can do what these ganked mission runners were doing, but EVE just isn't that kind of game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#70 - 2014-01-14 16:47:15 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Yep, and you'll notice not a SINGLE Damage control (unless I missed one Edit: i missed a couple, but lol DC on a 4+ bil mach)

so: is Damage Control MUST HAVE or it is not?

To me, the answer is always yes, but the most important thing is to not make your ship so attractive to gankers it would be a sin on their part to not gank you.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#71 - 2014-01-14 16:54:06 UTC
I don't like using DG boosters now that fozzie ****** them over by making them LESS efficient than t2.

Here's my non-blingy fit. Ambit rig gives it the same range as a 3x TE fit. If I went with a MWD i'd use the shadow serp one as its a lot cheaper.

[Machariel, SOE cheap blitz XL]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Damage Control II

100MN Afterburner II
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
3x t2/dread guristas/c-type/b-type hardener or t2 invuln

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
whatever

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I or CCC

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-01-14 16:57:46 UTC
dexington wrote:
After CCP introduced security status for tags suicide ganking has exploded, you no longer need to recycle alts or grind security status.


Really? So far nobody who has made this claim has any kind of data to even begin to back it up.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#73 - 2014-01-14 17:19:16 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Yep, and you'll notice not a SINGLE Damage control (unless I missed one Edit: i missed a couple, but lol DC on a 4+ bil mach)

so: is Damage Control MUST HAVE or it is not?


I really like them on pirate/faction BS as they have a ton of HP so it does more for them relatively (especially the mach and active rattle which don't sacrifice damage mods to fit one). Furthermore these ships make good use of their shield buffer and burst tanking ability to rely less on sustained tank, so the damage control helps a lot here as well, while also improving the sustained tank, which is generally weak if you're not using a gist booster or something.

I would probably not use a damage control on an armor-tanked marauder, and I think i would also try to do without on a vargur, especially if I was away from heavy ganking areas or cheaply fit. On the other hand, the damage control is made more attractive by the fact that bastion mode resistances are stacking penalized. I would definitely use a damage control in all cases if near the SOE constellation, a major trade/mission hub, and fitting more than 200m in modules.

I personally wouldn't use a damage control on your typical t1 missioning battleship, but they are very handy if you think you need extra tank more than a 3rd or 4th damage mod, or are shield tanking w/ plenty of lows. The damage control also provides significant extra margin of error if you aren't already overtanked for the given mission or are concerned about your connection. For that reason I always recommend damage controls to people without boatloads of SP in their mission ship.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#74 - 2014-01-14 17:20:17 UTC
As I said on a previous page, if you've got the ISK for the bling fit, why not run a power of two account? No amount of bling is going to reduce your mission run times as much as a second pilot on the field.

There is also no real way to avoid the ganks in hisec without some convoluted staging/logistics. D-scan all you want, but sooner or later you're going to have to jump a gate. Perhaps with a network of mobile fitting units you could work something out, but the refit time will kill whatever benefits you gained from having the mods in the first place.

As for the comments about, "should it be this easy," I offer you a challenge: start a 21 day trial alt, train up a catalyst alt, and put it to work. I am certain that you'll find it's harder than you think. But if it's super easy, well, have fun looting faction mods! (btw it isn't easy, not least because you need to find a like-minded group of killers that you trust not to immediately steal the loot, kick you from fleet, and then pod you for lols). I've done my fair share of ganking on alts and it's almost always about the isk. Sure, thrill kills happen, but the reality is that once you pull the trigger, you're looking at a significant time break until you can do it again. It kills gankers to think about all the fat, delicious ships that they're missing out on. Why blow my wad on a possible 300mil drop when I can be certain some moron with a 3bill isk fit will wander by shortly?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-01-14 17:39:11 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Seems to me then, that clone tags need a hike in price. Obviously there is a demand for them. So time to make some profit.


There are only 2 types of tags that are worth farming, they drop in 0.1 and 0.2 systems. Finding a quit system with the right security status, that was the decent amount of belts, is not that easy.

The clone soldiers have a decent spawn rate and tags have a 100% drop rate, but whether or not it's worth it really depends on you being able to rat undisturbed for longer periods in low-sec, which is not all that likely.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-01-14 17:45:03 UTC
Qalix wrote:
As I said on a previous page, if you've got the ISK for the bling fit, why not run a power of two account? No amount of bling is going to reduce your mission run times as much as a second pilot on the field.



Some people don't want to deal with multiple account and in that case, only bling will ever reduce your mission time. In the end, ignore the tears and accept they are making the economy run by having these module/ships go POP once in a while.
Si1viu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-01-14 18:37:54 UTC
I made this thread to warn missioners about a real danger and to help them to stay in one piece, if you have solutions for them to stay alive please give it to them, if not move on C&P thread please, because are a lot of people there who need you.

Again, here is not "Crime and Punishment" section, so for all professional trolls, tears lovers and other kind of twisted minds please refrain to post here your mental garbage and useless personal opinions about how ganking is good/bad, missioners deserve to die, etc, etc.

So keep this thread clean for people who really do missions & complexes, OK?
Thank you!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#78 - 2014-01-14 18:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
To be fair, the ganker thought processes and motivations are some of the more useful posts here,
as a mission runner I'm glad for the insights (and the damage control tip, had forgotten about that).

Power of two...meh, only really got my main into a healthy shape, still have a ways to go and while I do have 3 alts,
I am pretty broke generaly ( twins are heavy on the wallet) and can only train them every now and again soo none of them are particularly useful yet.

Still though, not blinging anything ,not worth it. The most extravagant thing I fly with is my hull and a navy cap booster.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Si1viu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-01-14 19:04:47 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
To be fair, the ganker thought processes and motivations are some of the more useful posts here.


Again, is Missions & Complexes forum, not a place for psychology or other kinds of debates.
Missioners are more interested how to survive and make money, and the reasons for what gankers do what they do are are obvious and don't need any analyze: isk and fun.
The fact that they target more the expensive ships is again obvious and i mentioned from first post of this thread, so again is no reason for any debate.
What are the deep motivations and thoughts of the individuals who enjoy ganking and the purpose of getting that money have little to no interest for the people who do missions.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#80 - 2014-01-14 19:17:54 UTC
Si1viu wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
To be fair, the ganker thought processes and motivations are some of the more useful posts here.


Again, is Missions & Complexes forum, not a place for psychology or other kinds of debates.
Missioners are more interested how to survive and make money, and the reasons for what gankers do what they do are are obvious and don't need any analyze: isk and fun.
The fact that they target more the expensive ships is again obvious and i mentioned from first post of this thread, so again is no reason for any debate.
What are the deep motivations and thoughts of the individuals who enjoy ganking and the purpose of getting that money have little to no interest for the people who do missions.

...actually their the most relevant things here.
Specifically because that motivation is the determining factor regarding the longevity of ones mission ship.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=