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Question of Authority
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James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#1 - 2014-01-12 11:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Nikolas Tesla
I foundthis site offering to sell botting software and I got to thinking how far CCP's authority stretched. If they were able to get this site shut down or they weren't able to do anything unless they found a player who was using a bot?

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2014-01-12 11:25:30 UTC
Please remove the link, as you are not really helping CCP by posting it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#3 - 2014-01-12 11:26:26 UTC
Done

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.
voetius
Grundrisse
#4 - 2014-01-12 11:37:39 UTC

It can be done but it's not straightforward and I presume it could be costly. Here's an example of it being done:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/23/jagex-wins-court-case-against-runescape-botters/

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#5 - 2014-01-12 11:47:29 UTC
James Nikolas Tesla wrote:
I foundthis site offering to sell botting software and I got to thinking how far CCP's authority stretched. If they were able to get this site shut down or they weren't able to do anything unless they found a player who was using a bot?
I think I remember from some fanfest security thing that they do try to take action against such websites.
I'm not sure which one (Or if it was a CSM minute/dev. blog), but it would seem logical to at least try.
If they can close the operations, perfect. If they can't, well, a botcoder probably has fewer lawyer options than a company.

I'd guess it's the same as goldseller websites or filesharing websites - every once in a while they change domain/name due to companies or nations attempting to take them down.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#6 - 2014-01-12 11:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
Think CCp's actions are a bit different on this. There was an older thread like this, where it was explained CCP does not invest much time in putting down those sites, as it's wasted, they pop up again easely under a new name. If it doesn't take much resources, they'll do their best to put it down, but the moment more action is required, they take a different route.

Rather, they visit the sites & analyze the software used, in order to be able to catch the users ingame more effectivly and to find ways to make it harder to use through small changes (the undock button change by example knocked a ton of bots out for a while)

To me, it sounds much more effective & discouraging to use, then putting sites down all the time with little effect (most botusers can find their related sites again pretty quick anyway)

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Pap Uhotih
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-01-12 12:35:08 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Think CCp's actions are a bit different on this. There was an older thread like this, where it was explained CCP does not invest much time in putting down those sites, as it's wasted, they pop up again easely under a new name. If it doesn't take much resources, they'll do their best to put it down, but the moment more action is required, they take a different route.

Rather, they visit the sites & analyze the software used, in order to be able to catch the users ingame more effectivly and to find ways to make it harder to use through small changes (the undock button change by example knocked a ton of bots out for a while)

To me, it sounds much more effective & discouraging to use, then putting sites down all the time with little effect (most botusers can find their related sites again pretty quick anyway)


I agree, whilst the legal route is an option the reality is that it takes time and money. Two years in the case of Jagex and in spite of being awarded damages they will have had to finance the action in the interim which would have diverted money from development. Along side that two years is ample time for other vendors to pop up, when there is a gap in the market someone will be prepared to fill it.
Keeping a focus on the goal rather than getting side tracked by individual bot makers or moral crusades would probably yield the most direct benefit to the players. Improving code and identifying bot footprints is never going to make headlines but It does focus resources on the game rather than a lawyers pension fund.
James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#8 - 2014-01-12 21:25:10 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Think CCp's actions are a bit different on this. There was an older thread like this, where it was explained CCP does not invest much time in putting down those sites, as it's wasted, they pop up again easely under a new name. If it doesn't take much resources, they'll do their best to put it down, but the moment more action is required, they take a different route.

Rather, they visit the sites & analyze the software used, in order to be able to catch the users ingame more effectivly and to find ways to make it harder to use through small changes (the undock button change by example knocked a ton of bots out for a while)

To me, it sounds much more effective & discouraging to use, then putting sites down all the time with little effect (most botusers can find their related sites again pretty quick anyway)

So who should I contact to see if they want the link or not?

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.
voetius
Grundrisse
#9 - 2014-01-12 21:40:06 UTC

can't recall exactly but there is an email address something like security@ccpgames . You should be able to find it if you google Plex4Snitches or maybe just look on the CCP main site
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#10 - 2014-01-12 21:40:19 UTC
James Nikolas Tesla wrote:
So who should I contact to see if they want the link or not?
I think the best you can do is send the link with an accompanying explanation to security@ccpgames.com.
IMHO it's better if they receive such links n-times then not at all. From there it's up to them.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#11 - 2014-01-13 05:59:17 UTC
Join a dev-alt corp, bot with impunity.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-01-13 08:38:11 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Join a dev-alt corp, bot with impunity.


Because if devs wanted to cheat at Eve they'd go to the trouble of setting up a botting corp for their characters, rather than just spawning a trillion ISK out of thin air.

And because players would obviously be able to apply successfully to these "dev-alt" corps.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Kira Enomoto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-01-13 08:57:06 UTC
It is better for CCP to get the software installed on some test PC's and then work on way to detect or stop it.

And a lot cheaper...
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#14 - 2014-01-13 09:00:31 UTC
Sorry, I keep forgetting the party-line slogan of "There are no bots."

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Alastair Ormand
Mine all the things
#15 - 2014-01-13 10:15:25 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Sorry, I keep forgetting the party-line slogan of "There are no bots."


Because everyone with multiple accounts bots.

I discourage running with scissors.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#16 - 2014-01-13 17:22:36 UTC
Alastair Ormand wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Sorry, I keep forgetting the party-line slogan of "There are no bots."


Because everyone with multiple accounts bots.
We are all Chribba's bots.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#17 - 2014-01-13 17:24:53 UTC
Quote:
Rather, they visit the sites & analyze the software used, in order to be able to catch the users ingame more effectivly and to find ways to make it harder to use through small changes (the undock button change by example knocked a ton of bots out for a while)


That's why they did that? I never could out figure out what the motivation for that was, it didn't make a lot of sense asthetically.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#18 - 2014-01-13 19:02:42 UTC
Wait...are you admitting to looking for botting software??!?!?!?




Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-01-13 19:09:45 UTC
I know blizzard has won a couple of law suites against people making/selling botting software, but it seems like this type of court case takes years.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#20 - 2014-01-13 22:07:31 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Wait...are you admitting to looking for botting software??!?!?!?

I wasn't looking for it, it was a random ad on my Facebook page and it sparked my interest on how botting would even work. The way I understand is you are basically creating an AI to control your account.

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.
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