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Crime & Punishment

 
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Something need to be done to stop the massacre of missioning ships and minning barges in hisec

Author
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2014-04-08 07:17:23 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Jarghul Nightowl wrote:


Don't treat your ships like you treat your girlfriends and wives, treat your ships like a pimp treats his whores. They are there to make him money, not to look pretty or shiny.

Hey, if they don't look pretty they don't make money.


The real solution to this is actually better mission mechanics that don't call for totally different mentality to PvP, and that reward several pilots working in a fleet. A gang of 2 navy BS & 2 T1 Logi with T2 fittings & buffer tank will be way way harder to gank than active tanks forced by the solo centric design.


They have that. Incursions.

But it has always been a source of frustration to me that in a "PvP all the time" game like EvE, I have to have different ships to PvE in than I do to PvP. Since usually the rigs are not even the same, you literally do need different ships. Every time I stick my capsule into a PvE ship I say to myself, "Ok, now you are the prey," just so I know my place in the galaxy and act accordingly.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#302 - 2014-04-08 09:49:58 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:


They have that. Incursions.

But it has always been a source of frustration to me that in a "PvP all the time" game like EvE, I have to have different ships to PvE in than I do to PvP. Since usually the rigs are not even the same, you literally do need different ships. Every time I stick my capsule into a PvE ship I say to myself, "Ok, now you are the prey," just so I know my place in the galaxy and act accordingly.

Incursions force a fleet rather than reward a fleet but allowing solo play to still exist, so they aren't quite what I was meaning.
I posted a summary of my thoughts in the CSM forum but none of the CSM seem to be interested in picking up on it or discussing it.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#303 - 2014-04-08 11:24:35 UTC
Flying Lawnmower wrote:
I mission in highsec with a fairly blingy (about 1,2 bil) Tengu and guess what? I keep my eyes on d-scan set to short range, I pay attention and I'm always on guard. Thanks to the T3 being so fast and agile I was always already initiating warp by the time they actually popped up on overview.


This guy knows what's up.

It's possible to make yourself 99.99% ungankable in a mission pocket, since even in something large like a shield expanded battleship, there's probes loose long enough to give yourself enough time to kill any scrambling frigates and warp out, even before the suicide gank is undocked and in warp to the site. Most ships are actually quick enough to still warp out with ships landing on grid.

Mission runners who die in this way are not very good at the game, there's no other way to put it. We alone kill 15+ over 2 or 3 systems whenever we set out, and despite the wails in local (and indeed much of the local list flashing red) it still never occurs to the mission runner that dscan, even lazily applied, would keep them 99.99% safe from harm.

About 1 in 5 we kill will be someone returning to a mission to complete it after managing to warp out the first time. Most times we just assume they're dumb and sit on their entrance gate, clearly on Dscan for everyone to see. They still die, cry in local, and the next guy too.

The only "something" that needs to be done, is for the mission runners to become better at the game. Even the smallest amount of awareness would clue them in to what is very likely to happen to them.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#304 - 2014-04-08 12:56:39 UTC
i like how people think ganking is killing the game, it's what keeps the game going.
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#305 - 2014-04-08 14:30:59 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Is that nameless NPC Corp Nothing still talking crap in this forum.

Why are you people feeding a Nothing NPC Corp alt?


Those tears aren't going to make themselves...
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#306 - 2014-04-08 17:08:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:


They have that. Incursions.

But it has always been a source of frustration to me that in a "PvP all the time" game like EvE, I have to have different ships to PvE in than I do to PvP. Since usually the rigs are not even the same, you literally do need different ships. Every time I stick my capsule into a PvE ship I say to myself, "Ok, now you are the prey," just so I know my place in the galaxy and act accordingly.

Incursions force a fleet rather than reward a fleet but allowing solo play to still exist, so they aren't quite what I was meaning.
I posted a summary of my thoughts in the CSM forum but none of the CSM seem to be interested in picking up on it or discussing it.


I understand what you're saying now.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Rikanin
The Azerick Corporation
#307 - 2014-04-08 17:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikanin
Good suggestions for highsec missioning safety for the noobs...

here are some for the miners...

Mining in high sec if you must...

1. don't sit by the warp in or right in the asteroids - above or below with clear warp out path is best
2. don't all sit right next to one another - spread out
3. watch local - check every toon that comes through (multiples from the same corp are always suspect)
a. sec status - a 5.0 means mission runner and likely harmless
b. if sec status is less than stellar does the toon or corp name or description talk about ganking or piracy?
c. Check battleclinic for kill history - gives you some idea what the toon has been used for
4. watch dscan

overkill? maybe...but mining is boring so it gives you something else to do.

Also...mine in a mission pocket with asteroids if you can...scenery is at least different and gankers will have to scan you down first. That means you're not the low-hanging fruit that the guys in the belts are.

shrug
Luwc
Maidens Of The Chalice
Two Maidens One Chalice
#308 - 2014-04-09 06:59:00 UTC
I was going to call you a ******* pussy but then i realized that you actually have a point.

risk - profit for suicide ganking is way too unbalanced.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#309 - 2014-04-09 07:40:24 UTC
Luwc wrote:
I was going to call you a ******* ***** but then i realized that you actually have a point.

risk - profit for suicide ganking is way too unbalanced.


How can that be? Only the victim decides how much he hauls, or whether he mines with a tank or not.

The reward and the risk are only as good, or bad, as the target makes it for themselves.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jack Lennox
Grove Street Families
#310 - 2014-04-09 09:34:37 UTC
Mojo Joo wrote:
You cannot tank a ship against tens of destroyers, and don't need to be afk. Actually is nothing you can do if some gankers decide to suicide destroy your faction battleship.
Your idea is just that we all need to fly dirty cheap ships to not be killed in hisec by people who not risk anything in the process? Better think again because that is a silly solution.




That's what's beautiful about this game. If someone decides they want you dead, the only thing you can do to stop them is to never undock.

Been ganked? Robbed? Space feelings hurt?  Now there's something you can do! Fill out a Customer Service Comment Card!  EIther that or contact everyone's favorite Space Detective for an instant ban!

Aimy Maulerant
DDo Squad Gaming
#311 - 2014-04-09 14:30:01 UTC
ok for you to make 10's of billions of isk afk mining and whatever else you do while "relaxing" yet pirates are not aloud to gank people to make there isk, in an ideal world you want to be in highsec with 0 risk, good luck selling your materials and ships for decent isk as pirates contribute alot to the rising prices of ships, materials and everything else in the market
Dilligafmofo
The Branded Few
#312 - 2014-04-10 13:12:48 UTC
Aimy Maulerant wrote:
ok for you to make 10's of billions of isk afk mining and whatever else you do while "relaxing" yet pirates are not aloud to gank people to make there isk, in an ideal world you want to be in highsec with 0 risk, good luck selling your materials and ships for decent isk as pirates contribute alot to the rising prices of ships, materials and everything else in the market



School? attend much? if so, gank your English teacher Lol
Abulurd Boniface
CORE BUSINESS
#313 - 2014-04-10 13:46:48 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Each time one of these threads start my balls boil with great vengeance and furious anger...

- CCP has already listened too much to carebears wanting to turn hisec into a no-risk theme park.
- Risk and non-consensual pew in hisec is what makes EvE special. Get rid of it, and you have just another WoW on your hands.
- WoW is that way ---->


I'm not much involved in PvP. I find I have no taste for it. Which is odd because in other games I will just shoot everything that moves and kill it as fast as I can. I don't know what it is in EVE, but I don't have that same reflex [but I'll shoot back, pumpkin. Don't think I'm shy about it. I will lock on and try to take you before the bulkheads buckle].

Having said that, I don't want New Eden to be safe. Hi-sec should be 'safer', but not safe. Never safe. I'm annoyed that people keep yammering about that.

If you fly a loot pinata don't be surprised if people want to hit it. Don't expose yourself to that risk. I made my first billion in a ship that was as comfortable and sexy as an old pair of boots. People shot at me, of course, but not because I was driving a pimped out battleship.

Do not ask for a safe EVE. Ask, passionately plead for, more engaging and conflict-driven content. It is the lifeblood of New Eden. You should not want it to be a big, plastic, bouncy ball that stops you from getting hurt. If that is what you need from a game, and you are most definitely entitled to that, don't come looking for it in New Eden. Especially don't tell us we have to live by your standard.

You came here. Adapt, overcome. You get to shoot back! It's not a one-way street. You are expected to slap the other guy around if you can grab hold of him. Do that. Don't come here and blubberface about your shiny ship going kaput. Find the other guy, you know who he is, and kick his ass. If you don't want to do that reconsider whether this is the best environment for you to be in.

But don't ask for it to be safe.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#314 - 2014-04-10 14:07:29 UTC
Abulurd Boniface wrote:

Do not ask for a safe EVE. Ask, passionately plead for, more engaging and conflict-driven content. It is the lifeblood of New Eden. You should not want it to be a big, plastic, bouncy ball that stops you from getting hurt. If that is what you need from a game, and you are most definitely entitled to that, don't come looking for it in New Eden. Especially don't tell us we have to live by your standard.

You came here. Adapt, overcome. You get to shoot back! It's not a one-way street. You are expected to slap the other guy around if you can grab hold of him. Do that. Don't come here and blubberface about your shiny ship going kaput. Find the other guy, you know who he is, and kick his ass. If you don't want to do that reconsider whether this is the best environment for you to be in.

But don't ask for it to be safe.


You're all right. I'm putting you on the do-not-kill list....nah I'm kidding, there is no such list. But if I had one, you'd definitely be on it.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Abulurd Boniface
CORE BUSINESS
#315 - 2014-04-10 15:23:41 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:

You're all right. I'm putting you on the do-not-kill list....nah I'm kidding, there is no such list. But if I had one, you'd definitely be on it.


Hey, I don't mean to be on a no-kill list, but if it makes you more likely to target the other guy instead of me, I'll take it. I'm not particular. If I can get out of the scrap and all I have to worry about is that my hair is on fire, I consider that a win!

:-)
Aimy Maulerant
DDo Squad Gaming
#316 - 2014-04-10 23:18:08 UTC
Dilligafmofo wrote:
Aimy Maulerant wrote:
ok for you to make 10's of billions of isk afk mining and whatever else you do while "relaxing" yet pirates are not aloud to gank people to make there isk, in an ideal world you want to be in highsec with 0 risk, good luck selling your materials and ships for decent isk as pirates contribute alot to the rising prices of ships, materials and everything else in the market



School? attend much? if so, gank your English teacher Lol


not really i was too busy eating mushrooms, good thing about 2014 is you dont need to give a **** about anything Big smile
Ecrir Twy'Lar
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#317 - 2014-04-12 16:53:36 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mojo Joo wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:


I looked at it, it doesn't change my opinion, the weak are preyed upon and the strong survive.


The catch is that against 15-20 destroyers no matter how "weak" or "strong" you are, whatever you do and how well you tank it, your ship will die for sure in flames Big smile
And please pull out of your head that darwinian nonsense who not apply to human race... we are humans and we can use various weapons, so don't matter how weak humans are, can kill anytime any strong one using right tools, is enough just to really want to do that.
You will not be never strong enough to survive a knife stiffed in you back or to poison put in your food by a very skinny women Big smile


You are taking my words and turning them into your perceived ignorance. I was not referring to anything physical, as this game does not require any physical strength but strength in the mind.

If you think darwin's observations are non-sense and do not apply to humans then you are going to have a very hard life, both in game and out.

The weak are the ones who think they are safe, or think there is nothing they can do against 15 gankers and just give up.

The strong are the ones who get ganked, figure out why, make adjustments to their strategies and tactics, and execute the changes to the desired effect.



I think you need to go do a bit of research on Darwin. It's not whether the creature is weak or strong. It's their ability to adapt that matters.
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2014-04-12 19:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Syds Sinclair
..I've been playing Eve since '07. I've mined a bit, ran my fair share of missions, and tried my hand at manufacturing.

I've made stupid mistakes in almost everything I've done in Eve. But I did not continue to remake those mistakes. I actively thought about the risks I was blindly taking, and made the decision that the reward was not worth the risk. I made the decision that I would learn to avoid mistakes instead of learning from mistakes.

Just for instance, when I was manufacturing ships in HighSec. For about a week I hauled my own minerals and ships back and forth from the market to my manufacturing area. And then I thought "You know, I usually have 1/3rd or more of my entire wealth in this freighter that I'm slow boating around in. If I get ganked, it would take me months of manufacturing to recoup my losses. I'm not going to haul this much any more. Matter of fact, I'm going to start using currier contracts. I'll let them take all the risk."

I didn't get ganked. I only exposed myself to great loss for a few days, and then I realized how stupid I was behaving. And then I wised up.

Like when I was a miner. This was way back about the time of The first Hulkageddon. I've always enjoyed many aspects of Eve, so I was always informed of things of this nature, because I would read the forums and various other Eve publications.

So anyways, the first Hulkageddon. I purposefully stopped mining a week before the event, and was planning on not starting again until a week after. I never started mining again, but that was because of a different situation altogether.

Point is, I didn't wait to become an ignorant victim. I choose to be an informed participant. And that is what I am now, and what all Eve players should be. An informed participant of the game Eve online.

In closing, I welcome all past and future ignorant victims to try and become Informed participants. Come play Eve with us. It truly is a great game, and I think you just might like it.
Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#319 - 2014-04-14 04:30:49 UTC
Mojo Joo wrote:
Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones, and moreover, with new dumb pro-piracy feature of sec status instant boost, using pirate insignias, gankers can get security status back instant, and keep going on suicide gank ships at infinitum as long is very profitable too.

I call shenanigans on this bit, I can suicide gank just fine with -10.0 sec status.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#320 - 2014-04-14 04:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
oohthey ioh wrote:
i like how people think ganking is killing the game, it's what keeps the game going.

For sure.

Very few people take the time it takes to realize that the game needs everyone of all play styles to some extent with the possible exception of people who just run missions to watch their wallet grow. No miners/industrialists, no ships or modules to pvp with. If no one is getting blown up miners/industrialists have no one to sell to, this includes miners/industrialists that get blown up. If anyone out there can't handle losing a ship then they should feel free to quit. This game is not for everyone and never has been, the key is we need a critical mass of players to keep the whole thing running and we have that. Could we use more? Sure, but what I hear often is how EVE doesn't have millions of players but frankly I don't think the game could handle it if it did. That much competition over sites/rocks would create even more of a bloodbath than we have already not to mention the effects it would have on faction mods/ships and the values of ISK and LP and somehow I just don't think TiDi would cut it if we start talking about 50k players in a system.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.