Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yeah, I never understood why the bastion module was still stacking penalized with other modules. It doesn't make any sense to me.

i like it. but, knowing these forums, someone is going to come in here and derail it into a "I hate marauder changes" thread

Not sure about the first part. The main thing with the Vargur is actually the stacking penalty. As one can argue Lasers don't gain very much from a fall off increase. So a 1:1 is actually fair enough. Especially if you decrease the optimal bonus Lasers suffer.
Simply removing the stacking penalty will give Vargurs a massive buff already.

i would choose of one of the proposed ideas, double the falloff bonus and remove stacking penalty is a bit OP (especially vargur and kronos)

i would choose B.

I would also like to see a missile flight time bonus, because turrets have 2 rangebonus, missiles only one.

So is my blaster Kronos and I don't complain. The bastion module, in this regard, is yet another range improving module and should be dealt with as such. If it's effect is negligible it means either this module does not need to be run (tank permitting) or some other mid or low slot module is redundant.

You are free to disagree but please do remember that you are disagreeing with math. Equal, 1:1 bonus distribution means your whole operation range increases.

Of those two ships the ship A is better choice from the start, isn't it? Because at 90km, which pretty well covers most typical PVE engagements, it still dished out it's full 1000dps. But let's look how the bonus changes this situation, how the 50%dps (optimal+falloff) point moves along:

before it's at 90+10=100km
90km optimal with 25% bonus is 112,5km
10km falloff with 25%bonus is 12,5km
so the ship A does it's half dps at 125km, which, and it's not a coincidence, equals 100 plus 25%.

the ship B:
before: 50%dps at 10+90 = 100km
10km optimal plus 25% bonus = 12,5km
90km falloff plus 25% bonus = 112,5km
thus 50%dps is done at 12,5+112,5 = 125km = 100km +25% bonus

See the pattern? Uniform bonus linearly scales the dps curve along the range axis, for EVERY gun. Of course there are arguments for this or that change but "being unfair" is not a valid one.

CCP Ytterbium already addressed the stacking penalty in the Marauder thread. The Bastion Module remains stacking penalized because they don't want the Paladin to have even more ridiculous range than it already does. Fozzie backs this up by saying that the Kronos gets crazy range with Null.

Unfortunately, this means that the range bonus doesn't help the Torp Golem or the Anything Vargur nearly as much as one would hope.

Honestly I don't quite remember Paladin's stats before rebalance and thus don't remember if it had bonus to optimal or not but the Kronos has got its falloff bonus and this is the main reason for this crazy Null range. It has nothing to do with bastion.

Torp Golem doesn't have its TC/TE equivalent and the Vargur was already the best marauder before and now the others had catched up with it. In some way I can understand your bitterness.

What I am arguing is that if at a distance X you are doing Y damage then bastion bonuses make that at distance X+25% you are doing the same Y damage. It's simple as that and it can happen only when those bonuses are equal.


I'm not contesting this. I'm only stating that if a certain module is supposed to give general range increase across the board, equal bonuses to relevant attributes is the only fair way.

I tried to avoid stating it this way and I am well aware that those are not the same. I repeat, what happens now when you activate bastion is that whole your dps curve is scaled along Y axis.

Which is not true, I just realised. Bastion's bonuses are already stacked with hull's. Which means that ship with bonus to optimal will receive less of it and the same goes with falloff.


That would be correct if other things were equal. But they are not, as we both know it. You're talking Vargur vs. Paladin aren't you? You conveniently ignored that the Paladin has non-selectable damage profile while the Vargur has almost twice the tracking to compensate for shooting in falloff.

Mind you, I am not strictly against having moar falloff. I occasionally fly Vargur and my Kronos would benefit from it too. I'm just not convinced that this bonus asymmetry is that important to have. Especially when considering that both of those ships are already being flown while stacked to roof.