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Gallente-Caldari Relations, Are They Improving?

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Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#161 - 2014-01-23 11:06:32 UTC
and here we see a classic example of why proof-reading is important. My apologies - the error has been corrected.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#162 - 2014-01-23 13:43:53 UTC
Aelisha wrote:
I refuse to comment on slavery as a whole out of respect for the Empire and its religion, but some methods go too far in my humble opinion. I am sure there are those who have the patience and humanity to conduct the reclaiming in their personal domains in a manner more reflective of the oft stated enlightenment and theological uplifting that underpins public discussion of that particular institution. Simply put, how can one be considered to be moving towards Amarrian terms of religious compliance under duress? Or am I fundamentally misunderstanding the terms some use to describe 'accepting God'?

I guess that my thoughts can be summed up as a question: When you use drugs or mind controlling technology to control your slaves, how different are you from the Cartel or Sansha respectively? Does a supplicant following an implanted artificial script to voice devotion actually carry your God in their heart and soul?


I think you understand God and our religion better than you give yourself credit for.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#163 - 2014-01-23 16:29:51 UTC
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Jace Sarice
#164 - 2014-01-23 16:40:05 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?


The same way it always happens: people meddling in the affairs of others.
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#165 - 2014-01-23 17:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelisha
Claudia Osyn wrote:
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?


It seemed a more interesting talking point than the usual back and forth, in that it was the method, more than the intention, that was being discussed. But by all means, map out the latest peak or trough in the relationship between the State and Federation. Or better yet, we could actually discuss the ideologies that seem to generate those trends?

I'd be pleasantly surprised by a methodological analysis of the current conditions rather than the same old reconciliation for the sake of reconciliation versus war for the sake of pride, resources or whatever else can be accrued more by force than by cooperation.

To my mind, the aggressive colonialist agenda that the Federation represents is the largest obstruction to peace, closely followed by the culturally embedded exaggeration of the view of the Federal agenda held by our beloved State. Can there be a compromise between enforced liberal values with a protected campaign of cultural erosion, and a separatist union of mega-corporations built on the concept of regulated commerce and the restriction of individual liberty in the interests of ensuring the support and well being of the whole?

Simply put, I found less burden in analysing a particularly abhorrent form of population control in the context of the instance, rather than the institution, than I do in even beginning to map the tortured history of the State and Federation. Maybe if we can start talking in terms of mapping causes to effects in a manner that both sides can agree upon, that burden will decrease, but I have doubts as to whether such a thing is possible with the weight of history pressing on every individual differently.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#166 - 2014-01-23 17:18:20 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?


As a conversation continues on the IGS, the odds of the conversation turning to slavery eventually approaches 100%.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#167 - 2014-01-23 19:16:20 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?


As a conversation continues on the IGS, the odds of the conversation turning to slavery eventually approaches 100%.

Diana Kim could keep us on topic, what ever happened to her anyway. Her take on this subject would be amusing , to say the least.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#168 - 2014-01-23 19:21:44 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?


As a conversation continues on the IGS, the odds of the conversation turning to slavery eventually approaches 100%.

Diana Kim could keep us on topic, what ever happened to her anyway. Her take on this subject would be amusing , to say the least.


I'm not sure, really. She simply dropped off the face of the cluster. If her input would be valuable, though...

*clears throat*

The slanderous Gallente filth should not be negotiated with. Their word is not to be trusted. Their involvement in the war attests to this. They speak from one corner of their mouths about wanting peace, and on the other side they spit their ammunition towards our courageous citizens of the State.

This is why the Federation must be destroyed.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#169 - 2014-01-23 19:26:28 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
How did we go from Caldardi/Gallente relations to Amarr slaving practices?


As a conversation continues on the IGS, the odds of the conversation turning to slavery eventually approaches 100%.

Diana Kim could keep us on topic, what ever happened to her anyway. Her take on this subject would be amusing , to say the least.


I'm not sure, really. She simply dropped off the face of the cluster. If her input would be valuable, though...

*clears throat*

The slanderous Gallente filth should not be negotiated with. Their word is not to be trusted. Their involvement in the war attests to this. They speak from one corner of their mouths about wanting peace, and on the other side they spit their ammunition towards our courageous citizens of the State.

This is why the Federation must be destroyed.

Sounds about right. Big smile

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Jace Sarice
#170 - 2014-01-23 20:00:49 UTC
Aelisha wrote:

It seemed a more interesting talking point than the usual back and forth, in that it was the method, more than the intention, that was being discussed. But by all means, map out the latest peak or trough in the relationship between the State and Federation. Or better yet, we could actually discuss the ideologies that seem to generate those trends?

I'd be pleasantly surprised by a methodological analysis of the current conditions rather than the same old reconciliation for the sake of reconciliation versus war for the sake of pride, resources or whatever else can be accrued more by force than by cooperation.

To my mind, the aggressive colonialist agenda that the Federation represents is the largest obstruction to peace, closely followed by the culturally embedded exaggeration of the view of the Federal agenda held by our beloved State. Can there be a compromise between enforced liberal values with a protected campaign of cultural erosion, and a separatist union of mega-corporations built on the concept of regulated commerce and the restriction of individual liberty in the interests of ensuring the support and well being of the whole?

Simply put, I found less burden in analysing a particularly abhorrent form of population control in the context of the instance, rather than the institution, than I do in even beginning to map the tortured history of the State and Federation. Maybe if we can start talking in terms of mapping causes to effects in a manner that both sides can agree upon, that burden will decrease, but I have doubts as to whether such a thing is possible with the weight of history pressing on every individual differently.


The potential benefits of that sort of discussion become very limited when the involved parties realize their fundamental value systems and cultures differ to such a degree that it inhibits anything meaningful occurring.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#171 - 2014-01-23 21:15:27 UTC
This is only true where cultural differences are so extreme as to prevent each side from understanding the others point of view. Sadly our Gallentean cousins often don't seem to be able to get their heads around the concept that you can understand a cultural perspective without agreeing with it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#172 - 2014-01-23 21:29:38 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim could keep us on topic, what ever happened to her anyway. Her take on this subject would be amusing , to say the least.


I, too, miss Diana Kim. The only people who ever push the Like button on my IGS posts are Tibus Heth supporters and Muck Raker. And the former have gone away.
Jace Sarice
#173 - 2014-01-23 21:35:59 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is only true where cultural differences are so extreme as to prevent each side from understanding the others point of view. Sadly our Gallentean cousins often don't seem to be able to get their heads around the concept that you can understand a cultural perspective without agreeing with it.


That is difficult to do when one's belief system essentially dictates that you try to spread your own culture to others. Metacultural imperialism is difficult to negotiate with.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#174 - 2014-01-23 21:47:00 UTC
Jace Sarice wrote:

That is difficult to do when one's belief system essentially dictates that you try to spread your own culture to others. Metacultural imperialism is difficult to negotiate with.


One might say that the first victims of the metacultural imperialism that philosophical and political liberalism represents were the Gallente themselves and the Federation of today represents nothing more than the continued destruction of distinct cultural values and identity on an interstellar scale by the libertine memes first created in Caille.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#175 - 2014-01-23 21:58:54 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Jace Sarice wrote:

That is difficult to do when one's belief system essentially dictates that you try to spread your own culture to others. Metacultural imperialism is difficult to negotiate with.


One might say that the first victims of the metacultural imperialism that philosophical and political liberalism represents were the Gallente themselves and the Federation of today represents nothing more than the continued destruction of distinct cultural values and identity on an interstellar scale by the libertine memes first created in Caille.


I certainly know some ethnic Gallente who feel that way, Ojaabun. Emile Belfleur continually argues that multiculturalism is destroying his own culture in favour of a bastardised hybrid of the various member-states.

It seems that we still have something in common with the Luminaire Galenteans.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#176 - 2014-01-23 22:19:45 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


I certainly know some ethnic Gallente who feel that way, Ojaabun. Emile Belfleur continually argues that multiculturalism is destroying his own culture in favour of a bastardised hybrid of the various member-states.

It seems that we still have something in common with the Luminaire Galenteans.


It's often forgotten that Caldari, Gallente, Intaki, and Mannar co-existed for centuries in peace not because of the Federation but in despite of it. The critical flaw of the Federation is that as a political and economic entity it becomes a sort of homogenizing vector that enforces the metacultural values of liberal thought until all is assimilated into a vapid and empty society that is defined not by culture, but rather its absence.

Nothing more that is left but bland consumerism dictated by rational choice theorems where Freedom and Liberty become nothing more than words to be worshiped but never actually understood.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#177 - 2014-01-23 22:19:53 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is only true where cultural differences are so extreme as to prevent each side from understanding the others point of view. Sadly our Gallentean cousins often don't seem to be able to get their heads around the concept that you can understand a cultural perspective without agreeing with it.

I think you may be confusing tolerance of a thing with acceptance of a thing.

We understand you well enough to know you must be opposed.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#178 - 2014-01-23 22:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is only true where cultural differences are so extreme as to prevent each side from understanding the others point of view. Sadly our Gallentean cousins often don't seem to be able to get their heads around the concept that you can understand a cultural perspective without agreeing with it.

I think you may be confusing tolerance of a thing with acceptance of a thing.

We understand you well enough to know you must be opposed.


Obviously just not quite enough to realise that what we really want is to be left alone. But that's fine, we can keep this up forever.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#179 - 2014-01-23 22:30:55 UTC
Jace Sarice wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is only true where cultural differences are so extreme as to prevent each side from understanding the others point of view. Sadly our Gallentean cousins often don't seem to be able to get their heads around the concept that you can understand a cultural perspective without agreeing with it.


That is difficult to do when one's belief system essentially dictates that you try to spread your own culture to others. Metacultural imperialism is difficult to negotiate with.

Indeed, try dealing with a civilization suffering form collective oppositional defiant disorder.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#180 - 2014-01-23 22:35:16 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This is only true where cultural differences are so extreme as to prevent each side from understanding the others point of view. Sadly our Gallentean cousins often don't seem to be able to get their heads around the concept that you can understand a cultural perspective without agreeing with it.

I think you may be confusing tolerance of a thing with acceptance of a thing.

We understand you well enough to know you must be opposed.


Obviously just not quite enough to realise that what we really want is to be left alone. But that's fine, we can keep this up forever.

Please. Need we rehash recent events?

The State thrives on war.

It is fast becoming all you are.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."