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Gallente-Caldari Relations, Are They Improving?

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Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#21 - 2014-01-11 01:12:03 UTC
Oh, I certainly understand, Oniseki-Charantes-haani. Her baiting is as transparent as it is hilarious. Consider me both relaxed and entertained. I'll admit I had another line I wanted to use, but, ah, business calls, and business before pleasure.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-01-11 03:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Makoto Priano wrote:


But as you seem to not know, given your tirade about prostitutes and pride and all that, Kaalakiota-Okusaika-does-maintain-Federation-facilities. Indeed, these facilities are in secure Federation territory, meaning that in all likelihood Kaalakiota likely pays taxes and thus funds the Federation military. Rich, isn't it? And these aren't necessarily facilities in lockdown, with skeleton crews. No, as you'd expect, it's business-as-normal for Kaalakiota. I could carry on.

In any case, please continue with your fanciful efforts to goad us and paint Ishukone Okusaika as the traitorous outsiders. It's hilarious. Honestly. Have you ever tried comedy?



If you can find corporate tax returns paid to the Federal government by Kaalakiota corporation and not to the Secure Commerce Commission which ostensibly regulates interstellar trade, and which the space-borne assets you have graciously referenced would fall under the jurisdiction of, then by all means please provide them. The same interstellar treaty under CONCORD and the SCC that safeguards space-borne assets of Kaalakiota and other State companies in the Federation likewise safeguards the space-borne assets of Federal companies such as CreoDron and Poteque in the State.

You appear to be under the misconception that the conduct of trade and business in the Federation constitutes becoming a, "Traitorous outsider," as you put it when it is not the case for a Caldari company should retain the prerogative of conducting their own business and affairs as they see fit. How Ishukone conducts their business is their own, but it does not change the fact that it was Ishukone under Reppola-haan that wept and begged before the Federal Senate and in so doing gained the dubious distinction of being perhaps the very first Caldari leader in the State to have dropped to his knees before a foreign government power.

If you believe such a shameful display of capitulation before jaiiji is acceptable and carries with it no burden of dishonour then perhaps the corporate culture of Ishukone has changed drastically from the days of honoured Gariushi-haan who at least understood the concept of compromise with strength - not weakness.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#23 - 2014-01-11 03:35:35 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
[quote=Makoto Priano]
If you believe such a shameful display of capitulation before jaiiji is acceptable and carries with it no burden of dishonour then perhaps the corporate culture of Ishukone has changed drastically from the days of honoured Gariushi-haan who at least understood the concept of compromise with strength - not weakness.


Reppola-haan is no comparison. Nobody argues that fact. We'd all love to have back our dear Otro Gariushi-haan, just as you regained your dear Oiritsuu-haani, but we cannot. Nonetheless, he stood for something that we have refused to allow to die with him. Among other things, he stood for peace between the Federation and State. It was Heth who used our grief and rage to start a war, and Reppola has done his best to follow Gariushi's example and stay the hell out of it.

We follow our CEO just as loyally as we are expected to. We follow his policies, we back his decisions, and we will continue to do so until such time as he is no longer the CEO of Ishukone Okusaika. You are welcome to speak your criticisms of him, just as we did of your former CEO Tibus Heth.

Speaking of Heth... you weren't terribly keen on his policies either, were you? Well then perhaps you can understand why we grit our teeth and continue on, despite not totally agreeing with everything the management does.

Katrina Oniseki
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2014-01-11 03:51:27 UTC
So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#25 - 2014-01-11 04:03:08 UTC
Nonsense, this is normal!

It's healthy.

Katrina Oniseki
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-01-11 04:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Felsusguy wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I'm sure Ishukone will do their utmost to improve their own relationship with the Federation.

First half of that sentence was encouraging. Second half, not so much.


I fail to see how you cannot be encouraged by the prospect of a potential Ishukone-Federal relationship in the future?

The way you put it makes it sound like Ishukone is attempting to curry favor with the Federation for their own purposes rather than for the good of the State. If you didn't mean for it to sound that way, I apologize, but it just seems like it.


Improving relationships with the Federation would open markets for Ishukone I would assume. With further assumption this would allow Ishukone to generate more revenues which would not only benefit them but their standings in the Caldari State.

So my conclusion would be a win / win situation for both Ishukone and the Caldari state.
Jace Sarice
#27 - 2014-01-11 05:24:06 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:

Improving relationships with the Federation would open markets for Ishukone I would assume. With further assumption this would allow Ishukone to generate more revenues which would not only benefit them but their standings in the Caldari State.

So my conclusion would be a win / win situation for both Ishukone and the Caldari state.


To assume that opening markets is the only consideration of importance to the State and thus creating a de facto "win/win situation" is not helpful to the relationships you seem to want improved.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2014-01-11 07:29:49 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


If you can find corporate tax returns paid to the Federal government by Kaalakiota corporation and not to the Secure Commerce Commission which ostensibly regulates interstellar trade, and which the space-borne assets you have graciously referenced would fall under the jurisdiction of, then by all means please provide them. The same interstellar treaty under CONCORD and the SCC that safeguards space-borne assets of Kaalakiota and other State companies in the Federation likewise safeguards the space-borne assets of Federal companies such as CreoDron and Poteque in the State.

You appear to be under the misconception that the conduct of trade and business in the Federation constitutes becoming a, "Traitorous outsider," as you put it when it is not the case for a Caldari company should retain the prerogative of conducting their own business and affairs as they see fit. How Ishukone conducts their business is their own, but it does not change the fact that it was Ishukone under Reppola-haan that wept and begged before the Federal Senate and in so doing gained the dubious distinction of being perhaps the very first Caldari leader in the State to have dropped to his knees before a foreign government power.

If you believe such a shameful display of capitulation before jaiiji is acceptable and carries with it no burden of dishonour then perhaps the corporate culture of Ishukone has changed drastically from the days of honoured Gariushi-haan who at least understood the concept of compromise with strength - not weakness.


And, this, Gesakaarin, is why Ishukone manages the majority of Caldari Prime, and you are, as Tuulinen put it, in the muck and the blood.

Have fun with that.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#29 - 2014-01-11 07:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
That's quite enough, Priano-haani.

The Ishukone management of Caldari sectors on Caldari Prime is not some political victory to be thrown in the faces of our bretheren. It is a service to the Caldari people. It is for the good of our nation, not Ishukone. We dealt with the Federation at great cost. Notice how our brothers and sisters sneer and snicker at us for it. We are considered traitors for it, despite that all Caldari can live freely on Caldari Prime again. We do this because somebody had to, because diplomacy without the point of a gun is a forgotten art.

As for the "stuck in the muck and blood" comment, I would like to apologize to the members of Pyre Falcon on behalf of my colleague. What she said was out of line, and does not reflect the opinions of Ishuk-Raata. We respect the work Pyre Falcon does in the warzone, and consider them a shining example of what Kaalakiota is capable of. Their stunning diplomatic acumen, impressive combat record far surpassing our own, and unparallaled ethical and moral considerations should be considered a model for all Caldari.

Katrina Oniseki
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#30 - 2014-01-11 09:49:20 UTC
Since I doubt anyone else will say it...

Not all of us here at Kaalakiota have our heads so far up our own *** that we can't see the sacrifice made by Ishukone in order to bring Home back under our dominion. It takes backbone to make a choice knowing that you'll be a pariah because of it, yet doing so for the sake of something greater.

Frankly, the constant stream of accusation is nothing more than a cover for inadequacy. Reppola-haan swallowed his pride and did what he had to, while others spew their bile from the sidelines with all the grace, tact, and intellect of a drunken guttersnipe. It's not even competition taking place in these disgusting accusations, it's the simpering of a child that didn't get their chocolate milk at lunch like they wanted, trying to make someone else miserable so they feel a little better about themselves.

Heiian, indeed. And since when was Kaalakiota any different in it's pursuit of profit? I've sure as hell never seen this corporation turn down ANY advantage, weather it worked for the State or not, to get ahead ("Whats good for Kaalakiota is good for the State.", someone told me in a conversation once... Going to go back on that now?). Whining about someone else doing the same is just pathetic.

Oh, and lest we forget...

Which corporation was it that was all but forced to sell off one of it's major subsidiaries to cover the financial stupidity of a CEO who thought of nothing but buckets of "Enemy Blood"?...

Kaalakiota.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#31 - 2014-01-11 16:08:04 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Gallente-Caldari Relations have always been tense, but recently it would seem that the hostility between the Gallente and the Caldari has been easing up. Is this a sign of things to come in the future? Perhaps one day the people of the Federation and the people of the State will no longer view the other as enemies, but rather as technological and economic rivals, both racing towards the future to the benefit of all humanity. It's an optimistic view, but I for one would like to see the animosity between the Caldari and the Gallente dissipate.

What are your thoughts on Gallente-Caldari relations? Do you think they will improve, and do you want to see them improve? If not, for what reasons? Here's to a completely civil discussion. Cheers!


I imagine as long as men and women at the highest echelons of power in both our respective nations can profit from such conflict that relations between the Federation and State will remain...tense...at best. The situation on Home may have eased things but a more permanent solution will need to be addressed eventually.

I myself would like to remain optimistic as well, but as they say, only the paranoid survive.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#32 - 2014-01-11 18:11:23 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not.

An insightful and telling observation. But I think many within the Federation, including myself have long past the point where we consider an amicable peace possible.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2014-01-11 18:19:42 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
So in response to the original post, while Federation and Caldari relations may be quieting somewhat, Caldari and Caldari relations are not.

An insightful and telling observation. But I think many within the Federation, including myself have long past the point where we consider an amicable peace possible.


If you've decided that already, James, you may have made yourself correct. Never lose the faith in your fellow man. The Federation and Caldari may have heated issues that will never be forgotten, but trust me that they don't like to kill and die any more than the next man.

As easy as it is to be cynical, the universe slowly moves towards cooperation as we become more civilized. It's just a long process and we, as capsuleers, are directly involved in the more conflict-driven processes. Nobody calls a capsuleer to help build a hospital, after all, we're seen largely as tools of destruction rather than people.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#34 - 2014-01-11 19:22:50 UTC
People, for the most part, just want to be able to live their lives in relative peace and comfort.
The State and the Federation are currently in an wait-and-see phase, I think. The Federation is watching what goes on in the State after Heth's reign, and the State is moslty just cleaning house and figuring out how to move on with the Federation after Heth and Operation Highlander and the Caldari Prime DMZ.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-01-11 20:33:22 UTC
If the Caldari Prime arrangement were really enough, I doubt the lowsec war would still be going.

Don't let's mistake volume for sentiment here. Plenty of people have voiced their anger through silence and quiet menace rather than bluster and shouting.

For my part - and I speak only for my part... Haajakiin taalen - we returned. I respect the service and effort of my countrymen who continue to fight, but given that there seems to be something that resembles a vaguely stable agreement over Home that has some semblance of being acceptable to both sides, I really don't have any idea what the war is for nowadays. What more do we stand to gain or lose?

Haki tavatastsa daa suu moitten.. I don't see the profit in it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2014-01-11 20:58:06 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Improving relationships with the Federation would open markets for Ishukone I would assume. With further assumption this would allow Ishukone to generate more revenues which would not only benefit them but their standings in the Caldari State.

So my conclusion would be a win / win situation for both Ishukone and the Caldari state.


Your opinion is not only correct but is the very reason why the Caldari State is organised in the manner that it is. So that the right thing can be done, even if it is unpopular and without requiring the sort of bloody revolution that a centrist state would need to alter it's direction so radically.

It pains me to see that some of those raised within that system seem to have forgotten it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2014-01-11 21:02:27 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
If the Caldari Prime arrangement were really enough, I doubt the lowsec war would still be going.

Don't let's mistake volume for sentiment here. Plenty of people have voiced their anger through silence and quiet menace rather than bluster and shouting.

For my part - and I speak only for my part... Haajakiin taalen - we returned. I respect the service and effort of my countrymen who continue to fight, but given that there seems to be something that resembles a vaguely stable agreement over Home that has some semblance of being acceptable to both sides, I really don't have any idea what the war is for nowadays. What more do we stand to gain or lose?

Haki tavatastsa daa suu moitten.. I don't see the profit in it.


I have a missile guidance technician called Havaima Tsuurtsen. He's Civire, like me, and his family were one of the original colonists sent out to the Enaluri system. Respectfully, suuolo, his family is the reason he's out here. Because, to certain people, Black Rise ought to be Gallente space and the tyranny of the many is ready to descend from the borders at Ichoriya all the way to Urpiken constellation if we don't fight.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-01-11 23:24:46 UTC
I stand illuminated.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#39 - 2014-01-11 23:54:29 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I stand illuminated.


Stop stealing the limelight, Stitcher.

Katrina Oniseki
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-01-12 01:11:43 UTC
It's more of an ice blue rather than lime, surely?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders