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Gallente-Caldari Relations, Are They Improving?

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Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#341 - 2014-02-07 22:28:48 UTC
How many people is this 'poll' based on? what were political leanings of those polled?

Details Ms. Gridherst.

Without contextual knowledge based on those who took this poll its integrity is questionable. The fact that Caldari Prime, the very planet affected most by this conflict, was excluded from polling further raises suspicion.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2014-02-07 23:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Erys Charantes
Lyka Gridherst wrote:
I proffer the following polls:
Ramanujan poll taken 05.01YC116-08.01YC116. Luminaire, excluding Caldari Prime:
Question: Do you support the actions taken by the Federation Navy regarding the "illegal breaches of the Caldari Border between the dates of October 6, YC110 and March 10, YC115?"
57% approved
31% disapproved
12% neutral/no opinion
Question: Should the Federation continue the efforts of Operation Highlander and completely retake Caldari Prime?
59% approved
27% disapproved
14% neutral/no opinion
Question: Does the Caldari State have a legitimate sovereign claim to Caldari Prime?
63% no
33% yes
4% neutral/no opinion

95% confidence level; +/- 3.5%
Random sample based on coms combination

L'Indépendant Newspaper poll taken 10.10YC115-18.10YC115. Federation wide:
Question: Do you approve of Operation Highlander, the military effort to retake Caldari Prime which occurred in 03 last year?
69% yes
25% no
6% neutral/no opinion
Does the Caldari State have a right to place warships in orbit above Caldari Prime?
85% No
12% Yes
3% neutral/no opinion

95% confidence level; +/-5%
50% random sample based on coms combination; 50% based on electronic post addresses. Stratified by system population.

Public Polling, Inc. taken 25.04YC115-30.04YC115 Federation wide:
Preface: Recently the Federation engaged in military actions to retake Caldari Prime. Operation Highlander was a two pronged effort against the Caldari in space and on the ground. In space, the Federation forces destroyed the Caldari titan. They were unsuccessful in liberating the planet completely.
Please rate whether you strongly agree, agree, are neutral, disagree or strongly disagree with the following statements:
"It was the right thing for the Federation to do."
32% strongly agree
37% agree
11% neutral
14% disagree
5% strongly disagree
"The Federation should attack again and liberate the surface of Caldari Prime."
23% strongly agree
38% agree
19% neutral
11% disagree
8% strongly disagree

95% confidence level; +/-5.5%
75% random sample based on coms combination; 25% based on electronic post addresses. Stratified by system population.

Disclosure: I have been a paid consultant for Public Polling, Inc.

Ah, I recognize these. Paid polls brought forth by the militarist political party (Hawks) later in the same month to try and convince the Senate to launch reprisals against the State. The measure was shot down in minutes, and the information declared far too clearly biased to be admissible as an argument. I agree with the proven majority in that this so called "doctor" has not earned the right to be addressed as such in presenting information that is so laughably one sided from a clearly manipulated and arranged source.

And so you know, Simon, Caldari Prime was not the only planet they didn't poll, it would have skewed the desired results. As a native of Caldari Prime who actually lived through the attack, unlike this charlatan, I can safely say I'm quite content to see an end to this affair. You'll find the public view there much the same, I suspect. Nobody with real experience in such horrors wants them perpetuated.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#343 - 2014-02-07 23:28:59 UTC
So... I've got a couple of questions for the "Doctor" here.

One, have you ever fought a day in your life? Really fought against an enemy that wants you dead?

Two, do you have any children?

I figure I'll either get some racist ad hominem attack or snarky BS, but I do have a real reason for asking. Both are pertinent where this sort of politics are concerned.
Lyka Gridherst
Doomheim
#344 - 2014-02-07 23:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyka Gridherst
Simon Louvaki wrote:
How many people is this 'poll' based on? what were political leanings of those polled?

Details Ms. Gridherst.

Without contextual knowledge based on those who took this poll its integrity is questionable. The fact that Caldari Prime, the very planet affected most by this conflict, was excluded from polling further raises suspicion.


I gave you the confidence level and the deviation. I also told you how the random sample was obtained. I'm not teaching a research methods class here.

The persons on Caldari Prime are a minority in the Federation, a statistical outlier that was removed from the polling process. There are a significant number of persons on Caldari Prime that are not even Federation citizens. Of course they were excluded from the poll, you ninny!

Agiri Falken wrote:
So... I've got a couple of questions for the "Doctor" here.

One, have you ever fought a day in your life? Really fought against an enemy that wants you dead?

Two, do you have any children?

I figure I'll either get some racist ad hominem attack or snarky BS, but I do have a real reason for asking. Both are pertinent where this sort of politics are concerned.

No, on both counts.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#345 - 2014-02-07 23:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
I've seen the Ramanujan poll myself, and she's falsified the numbers. Let me say that again: She has blatantly changed the results in her IGS post, completely different from what they appear on their GalNet site. She's lying.

Question: Should the Federation continue the efforts of Operation Highlander and completely retake Caldari Prime?
27% approved
59% disapproved
14% neutral/no opinion

She swapped the numbers. The article on their GalNet site clearly stated that most Luminaire citizens supported the initial action but voted strongly in favor of an end to the fighting. Fourty-eight percent of them voted in favor of an end to the fighting in the very next question.

Question: Should the Federation seek compromise regarding administration of Caldari Prime?
48% approved
34% disapproved
18% neutral/no opinion

... I guess she didn't want to include that one, huh? I don't see why she would exclude it when she could have simply lied about those results too.

I haven't seen the other two polls, but L'Indépendant Newspaper is openly biased. A cursory reading of their front page can tell you that. They're also owned and funded by Hawk aligned political groups, and provided negative coverage of almost every Dove political candidate for the last decade. Of course their polls would be skewed wildly in one direction. You're asking a bunch of Hawks what they think of a military action against the Caldari State.

I've never heard of "Public Polling Inc.", so I'd question the credibility or very existence of them wholeheartedly.

Katrina Oniseki
Lyka Gridherst
Doomheim
#346 - 2014-02-07 23:33:49 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I've seen the Ramanujan poll myself, and she's falsified the numbers. Let me say that again: She has blatantly changed the results in her IGS post, completely different from what they appear on their GalNet site. She's lying.

Question: Should the Federation continue the efforts of Operation Highlander and completely retake Caldari Prime?
27% approved
59% disapproved
14% neutral/no opinion

She swapped the numbers. The article on their GalNet site clearly stated that most Luminaire citizens supported the initial action but voted strongly in favor of an end to the fighting. Fifty nine percent of them voted in favor of an end to the fighting in the very next question.

Question: Should the Federation seek compromise regarding administration of Caldari Prime?
48% approved
34% disapproved
18% neutral/no opinion

... I guess she didn't want to include that one, huh? I don't see why she would exclude it when she could have simply lied about those results too.

I haven't seen the other two polls, but L'Indépendant Newspaper is openly biased. A cursory reading of their front page can tell you that. They're also owned and funded by Hawk aligned political groups, and provided negative coverage of almost every Dove political candidate for the last decade. Of course their polls would be skewed wildly in one direction. You're asking a bunch of Hawks what they think of a military action against the Caldari State.

I've never heard of "Public Polling Inc.", so I'd question the credibility or very existence of them wholeheartedly.

Surely you have a link their website then? Nope? Right then, continue to spread lies.
((Go godmode somewhere else.))
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#347 - 2014-02-07 23:42:24 UTC
Lyka Gridherst wrote:

Surely you have a link their website then? Nope? Right then, continue to spread lies.
((Go godmode somewhere else.))


Do you really need a link to the site you quoted from first?

((Oh I see, you're the only one here allowed to make up numbers. My mistake.))

Katrina Oniseki
Lyka Gridherst
Doomheim
#348 - 2014-02-07 23:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyka Gridherst
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Lyka Gridherst wrote:

Surely you have a link their website then? Nope? Right then, continue to spread lies.
((Go godmode somewhere else.))


Do you really need a link to the site you quoted from first?

((Oh I see, you're the only one here allowed to make up numbers. My mistake.))


I'm looking at it right now, everything's correct.

((Feel free to make up numbers; just don't make up my numbers. God damn.))
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#349 - 2014-02-07 23:59:31 UTC
Lyka Gridherst wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Lyka Gridherst wrote:

Surely you have a link their website then? Nope? Right then, continue to spread lies.
((Go godmode somewhere else.))


Do you really need a link to the site you quoted from first?

((Oh I see, you're the only one here allowed to make up numbers. My mistake.))


I'm looking at it right now, everything's correct.

((Feel free to make up numbers, just don't make up my numbers. God damn.))


I seem to have misplaced my link. I can't find it in my browser history. Such a shame... could you provide us all with yours? Thanks in advance.

((Only one god-modder per thread then? I mean, it's okay for you to determine the overall opinions of the entire Federation without any consultation or approval of CCP, but it's not okay for my character to claim yours just swapped the numbers? Sorry sweetheart, but that doesn't fly around here. You'd better start qualifying your polls as a very minor subsection or something else that doesn't paint the whole Fed in whatever color you want it to be, and fast.

If you want to be taken seriously, you can start by not trying to determine the motivations of an NPC entity.

Tell you what. If you retract your bullshit polls, I'll retract my own. Deal?))

Katrina Oniseki
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#350 - 2014-02-08 00:09:07 UTC
Lyka Gridherst wrote:


I gave you the confidence level and the deviation. I also told you how the random sample was obtained. I'm not teaching a research methods class here.


You gave us a sample poll with no context behind it other than it was a 'poll' that was issued 'Federation wide' by a number of unconfirmed sources with unconfirmed biases. I would humbly suggest that you take a few research methodology classes before trying to push this kind of crap on the community next time.

Lyka Gridherst wrote:

The persons on Caldari Prime are a minority in the Federation, a statistical outlier that was removed from the polling process. There are a significant number of persons on Caldari Prime that are not even Federation citizens. Of course they were excluded from the poll, you ninny!


Ninny? now thats rich..

Of course! How silly of me! What the supposed 'majority' of the Federation certainly trumps those directly affected!

I employee a number of Federal citizens, approximately forty percent of the planetary workforce in my Bio-Fuels complex on Caldari Prime, and I can very much guarantee you they disagree with your 'majority'. Of course, as you stated, their just a 'statistical outlier'.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2014-02-08 00:16:04 UTC
The irony and hypocrisy is incredible with you Ms. Gridherst. Accusing Ms. Oniseki of the very thing you are blatantly doing is highly dishonorable. Were she Garoun, she probably would of challenged you to a duel. I know I would.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#352 - 2014-02-08 00:18:21 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Were she Garoun, she probably would of challenged you to a duel. I know I would.


Maybe on the next Fred Fred Federation? My daughter and I enjoy the show.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#353 - 2014-02-08 00:21:36 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Were she Garoun, she probably would of challenged you to a duel. I know I would.


Maybe on the next Fred Fred Federation? My daughter and I enjoy the show.


I have always wondered why it isn't called Fred Fred Frederation instead.

Katrina Oniseki
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#354 - 2014-02-08 00:26:48 UTC
indeed, it appears my selective dyslexia is at it again!

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#355 - 2014-02-08 00:30:17 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
indeed, it appears my selective dyslexia is at it again!


Wait what?! Oh Maker it actually is Frederation! Glorious!

Katrina Oniseki
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#356 - 2014-02-08 00:46:09 UTC
That would certainly bring ratings up than they already are! Of course, I am not the one to decide whether or not you two duel. I can organize it on intergalactic television!

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#357 - 2014-02-08 00:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Lyka Gridherst wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I've seen the Ramanujan poll myself, and she's falsified the numbers. Let me say that again: She has blatantly changed the results in her IGS post, completely different from what they appear on their GalNet site. She's lying.

Question: Should the Federation continue the efforts of Operation Highlander and completely retake Caldari Prime?
27% approved
59% disapproved
14% neutral/no opinion

She swapped the numbers. The article on their GalNet site clearly stated that most Luminaire citizens supported the initial action but voted strongly in favor of an end to the fighting. Fifty nine percent of them voted in favor of an end to the fighting in the very next question.

Question: Should the Federation seek compromise regarding administration of Caldari Prime?
48% approved
34% disapproved
18% neutral/no opinion

... I guess she didn't want to include that one, huh? I don't see why she would exclude it when she could have simply lied about those results too.

I haven't seen the other two polls, but L'Indépendant Newspaper is openly biased. A cursory reading of their front page can tell you that. They're also owned and funded by Hawk aligned political groups, and provided negative coverage of almost every Dove political candidate for the last decade. Of course their polls would be skewed wildly in one direction. You're asking a bunch of Hawks what they think of a military action against the Caldari State.

I've never heard of "Public Polling Inc.", so I'd question the credibility or very existence of them wholeheartedly.

Surely you have a link their website then? Nope? Right then, continue to spread lies.
((Go godmode somewhere else.))

((I was going to assume you were just portraying a hypocrite. Clearly I was mistaken. Since you've not figured it out, one of the key rules here is; if you don't have PF to back it, its meaningless. Also, some new character fresh out of diapers telling a vet to go somewhere else? Take your own advice.))
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#358 - 2014-02-08 00:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Agiri Falken
Lyka Gridherst wrote:
Simon Louvaki wrote:
How many people is this 'poll' based on? what were political leanings of those polled?

Details Ms. Gridherst.

Without contextual knowledge based on those who took this poll its integrity is questionable. The fact that Caldari Prime, the very plnet affected most by this conflict, was excluded from polling further raises suspicion.


I gave you the confidence level and the deviation. I also told you how the random sample was obtained. I'm not teaching a research methods class here.

The persons on Caldari Prime are a minority in the Federation, a statistical outlier that was removed from the polling process. There are a significant number of persons on Caldari Prime that are not even Federation citizens. Of course they were excluded from the poll, you ninny!

Agiri Falken wrote:
So... I've got a couple of questions for the "Doctor" here.

One, have you ever fought a day in your life? Really fought against an enemy that wants you dead?

Two, do you have any children?

I figure I'll either get some racist ad hominem attack or snarky BS, but I do have a real reason for asking. Both are pertinent where this sort of politics are concerned.

No, on both counts.

There's an old saying, "Those who are most eager for results are the ones who are safely away from them." It's easy to wish for what you want when it's going to be other people, and their kids, dying for it. Pick up a rifle and do it yourself, and maybe somebody will take you seriously. As of right now, you'd have to be blind to miss the eyerolling you're getting here. That'll be all, civilian. I'm sure your class will eat it up until that first ten mil strikes home. Propaganda is notoriously poor body armor.
Lyka Gridherst
Doomheim
#359 - 2014-02-08 01:38:39 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:

There's an old saying, "Those who are most eager for results are the ones who are safely away from them." It's easy to wish for what you want when it's going to be other people, and their kids, dying for it. Pick up a rifle and do it yourself, and maybe somebody will take you seriously. As of right now, you'd have to be blind to miss the eyerolling you're getting here. That'll be all, civilian. I'm sure your class will eat it up until that first ten mil strikes home. Propaganda is notoriously poor body armor.

How quaint an idea: that only those who have fought or will fight are entitled to an opinion. I am not Caldari and do not particularly care for your opinion on how things should be. Feel free to implement such policies in your own state. The Federation will remain a democracy and not a military junta like the State.

((Ah yes, the "you have to be an established player to have an opinion" fallacy.))
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#360 - 2014-02-08 01:52:04 UTC
Lyka Gridherst wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:

There's an old saying, "Those who are most eager for results are the ones who are safely away from them." It's easy to wish for what you want when it's going to be other people, and their kids, dying for it. Pick up a rifle and do it yourself, and maybe somebody will take you seriously. As of right now, you'd have to be blind to miss the eyerolling you're getting here. That'll be all, civilian. I'm sure your class will eat it up until that first ten mil strikes home. Propaganda is notoriously poor body armor.

How quaint an idea: that only those who have fought or will fight are entitled to an opinion. I am not Caldari and do not particularly care for your opinion on how things should be. Feel free to implement such policies in your own state. The Federation will remain a democracy and not a military junta like the State.

((Ah yes, the "you have to be an established player to have an opinion" fallacy.))


Lucky for us Home remains under Caldari control then aye?

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb