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Have Goons become the very thing they hated?? (i.e. BoB)

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#261 - 2014-01-10 21:08:34 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kugu account



You are using the biggest troll den on the internet as evidence of our movements...
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#262 - 2014-01-10 21:09:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


You know, you may have a point here. Maybe cap construction should be opened up more, so that everyone would have a chance for a combined arms approach to fleets. Will the CFC pursue such a change with equal vigor?


Wont make a difference.

The old capitals are still there and for every one you build they are also building one. You simply cannot catch up as they are just not getting killed in enough numbers.


Oh and this litle gem here, 400+ carriers die in 60 days but according to Baltec here they're just not getting killed in enough numbers....


How many were supers or titans?


Do you keep your arguments on roller skates to make it easier to switch around?

Someone said something to you about more people building caps, you said it wouldn't matter because the old caps aren't dying in enough numbers, I point out that 400+ carriers died in 60 days and you suddenly shift the conversation to Titans and Supers, just to bring you up to speed here on where you've gotten yourself, but to help you out, 50 supers have died and one titan since the start of this war but that in now way ties into what the original statement was about, which was you saying caps aren't dying in enough numbers.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#263 - 2014-01-10 21:10:49 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


You know, you may have a point here. Maybe cap construction should be opened up more, so that everyone would have a chance for a combined arms approach to fleets. Will the CFC pursue such a change with equal vigor?


Wont make a difference.

The old capitals are still there and for every one you build they are also building one. You simply cannot catch up as they are just not getting killed in enough numbers.


Oh and this litle gem here, 400+ carriers die in 60 days but according to Baltec here they're just not getting killed in enough numbers....


are 400+ carriers dying every 60 days, or is this just an outlier that you're quoting?

really nothing irks me more than bad statistics.

edit: especially since 60 days is a very short time period in a game that's a decade old.


400 carriers have died since the start of the Holloween war, over 100 dreads have died, 50 supers, and 1 titan.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#264 - 2014-01-10 21:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kugu account



You are using the biggest troll den on the internet as evidence of our movements...


Guys guys he didn't say anything like that ever at all

*gets the quote*

Oh guys guys he did say it, but he was trolling.



I'm sure since he's plastered that **** across FHC and other places that next we'll move on to stories about how his accounts have been hacked and its somebody else posting that under his name.

EDIT: And no, I'm not using it as evidence for his movements, I said "Vily said he moved 900 caps into the south", you said "no he didn't" so i went and got you the post where he says it. Try and keep up with your own lies

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#265 - 2014-01-10 21:12:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
dexington wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grath Telkin: disparages the N+1 subcap game.
Promotes N+1 titan game.


Considering the titan is the "most powerful" ship in the game, what would be the alternative?

The alternative would be properly balancing subcaps so that smaller groups have a chance to win against larger groups, also using subcaps.
Of course drone assist is a big part of what's throwing off that balance.


What would stop the bigger group from applying the exact same tactic, as the smaller group, juat with greater numbers, and destroy the smaller group every time.

The bigger group has more battleships, so the smaller group brings a capital, and wins... we all know how round two will end, and in the end both groups are using all titans and the bigger group still wins.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Dave Stark
#266 - 2014-01-10 21:12:58 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


You know, you may have a point here. Maybe cap construction should be opened up more, so that everyone would have a chance for a combined arms approach to fleets. Will the CFC pursue such a change with equal vigor?


Wont make a difference.

The old capitals are still there and for every one you build they are also building one. You simply cannot catch up as they are just not getting killed in enough numbers.


Oh and this litle gem here, 400+ carriers die in 60 days but according to Baltec here they're just not getting killed in enough numbers....


are 400+ carriers dying every 60 days, or is this just an outlier that you're quoting?

really nothing irks me more than bad statistics.

edit: especially since 60 days is a very short time period in a game that's a decade old.


400 carriers have died since the start of the Holloween war, over 100 dreads have died, 50 supers, and 1 titan.


so it's just an outlier that you're quoting?
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#267 - 2014-01-10 21:13:25 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
This is actually a lie, Vily claims you moved 900 caps into the south last week, thats nearly double what n3 and PL can put out, so its technically you that has the largest cap fleet in EVE.


he never said we moved 900 caps though you're free to point out where he said "we moved 900 caps into the south"


Really, because his Kugu posting sure does read that way:

redsaber wrote:
insinuating that our moving op is connected to an event an hour later 4 cynos away is funny.

hey CFC now that your mostly stood down, take your supers a couple midpoints straight by us with no support please "

lol you can do better grath

edit : maybe only 3 cynos

edit; also for the record if you combine our supers and capitals we had just over 900


For the record redsaber is Vily's Kugu account, Endie also claims 837 in that same thread, so please tell me more about how they didn't say that.

This game is fun we should keep playing



For the record that was the total number of caps that were online or in login screens from the CFC, RUS, and DTF to participate in the move op or cover it.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#268 - 2014-01-10 21:14:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


so it's just an outlier that you're quoting?

Wouldn't call ~2 months of war an outlier when discussing wars between the 2 major powerblocs.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#269 - 2014-01-10 21:17:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

So no, its not cowardness its simple numbers. In a supercap war we will run out before they do which will leave us unable to defend our space. We will ciontinue to slowly catch up and overtake them in a few years. This issue has been getting on for a decade in the making but this is a matter for another time

So the actual problem is that they are more (cap pilots) then you? Well this never was a problem for the CFC when its the other way around, and certainly no huge game inbalance Blink
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#270 - 2014-01-10 21:17:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

so it's just an outlier that you're quoting?


I dont know, is it an outlier or is it me taking issue with Batlec saying they're not dying in significant numbers? Because i know which one I think it is, however I'm sure you're going to try and shift it around to something other than exactly what it was: proving Baltec is a ******.

Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
This is actually a lie, Vily claims you moved 900 caps into the south last week, thats nearly double what n3 and PL can put out, so its technically you that has the largest cap fleet in EVE.


he never said we moved 900 caps though you're free to point out where he said "we moved 900 caps into the south"


Really, because his Kugu posting sure does read that way:

redsaber wrote:
insinuating that our moving op is connected to an event an hour later 4 cynos away is funny.

hey CFC now that your mostly stood down, take your supers a couple midpoints straight by us with no support please "

lol you can do better grath

edit : maybe only 3 cynos

edit; also for the record if you combine our supers and capitals we had just over 900


For the record redsaber is Vily's Kugu account, Endie also claims 837 in that same thread, so please tell me more about how they didn't say that.

This game is fun we should keep playing



For the record that was the total number of caps that were online or in login screens from the CFC, RUS, and DTF to participate in the move op or cover it.


So your're not denying your coalition (all those people are in your coalition now, you're all working towards a common goal, that is the basic definition of what a coalition does) has 900 caps in the south, so then deploying Slowcats/Boots shouldn't be any problem for you at all then right? I mean you should just be able to hang those things out wherever you want without any problem at all.

Also you should talk to James and Baltec, evidently they think you're a liar.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Dave Stark
#271 - 2014-01-10 21:17:36 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


so it's just an outlier that you're quoting?

Wouldn't call ~2 months of war an outlier when discussing wars between the 2 major powerblocs.


do you think 60 days of war, out of a game with 10 years of history, is a suitable frame to estimate the death rate of capital ships?
Dave Stark
#272 - 2014-01-10 21:20:18 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

so it's just an outlier that you're quoting?


I dont know, is it an outlier or is it me taking issue with Batlec saying they're not dying in significant numbers? Because i know which one I think it is, however I'm sure you're going to try and shift it around to something other than exactly what it was: proving Baltec is a ******.


going to go with both.

sure you might take issue with what he says, but just because 400+ have died in the last 60 days doesn't tell us anything about the average rate of capital ship deaths, and just as importantly we don't have the rate of capitals being produced to compare it with.

quoting 400 capitals in 60 days is irrelevant, then again it doesn't matter as we have nothing to compare that statistic to.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#273 - 2014-01-10 21:21:32 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


Do you keep your arguments on roller skates to make it easier to switch around?

Someone said something to you about more people building caps, you said it wouldn't matter because the old caps aren't dying in enough numbers, I point out that 400+ carriers died in 60 days and you suddenly shift the conversation to Titans and Supers, just to bring you up to speed here on where you've gotten yourself, but to help you out, 50 supers have died and one titan since the start of this war but that in now way ties into what the original statement was about, which was you saying caps aren't dying in enough numbers.


Are they not capitals?

And no, they have not been getting killed enough. For years huge numbers of these ships have built up to the point were you can dump over 40 titans. CCP originally saw the big organisations only owning two or three.

Both of our sides simply own far to many of these ships for any new alliance to ever match us. With this ugly fact you seem to think that capitals should be immune to all subcaps in a battle. This means most players will have no impact in a war and are simply chaff.

Again, CCP have nerfed capitals five times already because of this very reason. What makes you think a sixth isnt inevitable?

If I were you I would start working on your subcap fleets because if you continue to ignore this incoming nerf you will get crushed like every other superpower that put all of its eggs in the overpowered capital basket.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#274 - 2014-01-10 21:23:32 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
So your're not denying your coalition (all those people are in your coalition now, you're all working towards a common goal, that is the basic definition of what a coalition does) has 900 caps in the south, so then deploying Slowcats/Boots shouldn't be any problem for you at all then right? I mean you should just be able to hang those things out wherever you want without any problem at all.

Also you should talk to James and Baltec, evidently they think you're a liar.


so you're telling us that the numbers from a move op that was announced days in advance with every single party arrayed against your coalition calling CTAs represent the numbers we can pull at the drop of a hat?

i'd like whatever you're smoking

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#275 - 2014-01-10 21:23:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


so it's just an outlier that you're quoting?

Wouldn't call ~2 months of war an outlier when discussing wars between the 2 major powerblocs.


do you think 60 days of war, out of a game with 10 years of history, is a suitable frame to estimate the death rate of capital ships?

Tbh I don't think the ten years of history are terribly relevant. First off, capitals haven't even existed for all of those years. When they were introduced, in the first few years the amount of caps in the game was tiny. Hell even through 2007-2009 caps weren't THAT common.

IMO (and I could be wrong about this) it wasn't until the DRF wars that caps saw truly massive use. So at best, we're talking about 4 years or so of really *relevant* history. And well....60 days out of 4 years isn't really negligible, especially given that the conflict is ongoing.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#276 - 2014-01-10 21:24:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


Do you keep your arguments on roller skates to make it easier to switch around?

Someone said something to you about more people building caps, you said it wouldn't matter because the old caps aren't dying in enough numbers, I point out that 400+ carriers died in 60 days and you suddenly shift the conversation to Titans and Supers, just to bring you up to speed here on where you've gotten yourself, but to help you out, 50 supers have died and one titan since the start of this war but that in now way ties into what the original statement was about, which was you saying caps aren't dying in enough numbers.


Are they not capitals?

.


No, they're Super Capitals, and the original posts were you and that guy talking about building caps in lowsec, sorry Baltec but you're a goal post moving idiot who can't keep up with his own chain of posts, or even know what your overall side is saying is going on, much less understand enough about game mechanics to have an informed opinion on anything you're that you weren't directly handed from a superior.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#277 - 2014-01-10 21:25:23 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

So no, its not cowardness its simple numbers. In a supercap war we will run out before they do which will leave us unable to defend our space. We will ciontinue to slowly catch up and overtake them in a few years. This issue has been getting on for a decade in the making but this is a matter for another time

So the actual problem is that they are more (cap pilots) then you? Well this never was a problem for the CFC when its the other way around, and certainly no huge game inbalance Blink

Shhhhh, don't disrupt their narrative.

Grrrr Capitals, Grrrrrr.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#278 - 2014-01-10 21:26:58 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


No, they're Super Capitals, and the original posts were you and that guy talking about building caps in lowsec, sorry Baltec but you're a goal post moving idiot who can't keep up with his own chain of posts, or even know what your overall side is saying is going on, much less understand enough about game mechanics to have an informed opinion on anything you're that you weren't directly handed from a superior.


Now answer the rest without the personal attacks.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#279 - 2014-01-10 21:27:49 UTC
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So your're not denying your coalition (all those people are in your coalition now, you're all working towards a common goal, that is the basic definition of what a coalition does) has 900 caps in the south, so then deploying Slowcats/Boots shouldn't be any problem for you at all then right? I mean you should just be able to hang those things out wherever you want without any problem at all.

Also you should talk to James and Baltec, evidently they think you're a liar.


so you're telling us that the numbers from a move op that was announced days in advance with every single party arrayed against your coalition calling CTAs represent the numbers we can pull at the drop of a hat?

i'd like whatever you're smoking


Why does it have to be at the drop of a hat? You can't post more ops and get all that together again and then hang 300 slowcats out in an unjammed system or was this move op a once a decade thing like some kind of odd whale migration?

Regardless of how you get it, its there for you to get, so saying you can't do something because somebody else has more caps is a blatant outright lie, you have them, how you get them to do what you need is not my problem. The fact that you're not using Boot carriers down here for planned ops tells the entire tale of what kind of bullshit spin you're putting out, if you did really believe they were invincible and that you had 900 caps at your sides disposal you'd be cramming them down progod and Vince's throat every chance you got.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#280 - 2014-01-10 21:30:10 UTC
GSF - a single alliance - has destroyed 45.5 trillion ISK worth of stuff since its inception in 2010. That's 450 titans worth. How many titans have died, piloted, in CSAAs or otherwise, since they were added to the game?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar