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Crime & Punishment

 
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Highsec PvP-ers needed for foreverwar against Goons

First post First post
Author
Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#441 - 2014-01-17 19:28:16 UTC
Professor Clio wrote:
They never threatened us, and we never threatened them. But it was clear that for either of us to control all the good pocos we'd need to fight which, to put it in your own langage, would come with an opportunity cost.

Oh why am I even bothering, as grandma used to say, never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


Its a bit irrelevant now as both RvB and Goons will soon lose all their POCOs to the rising darkness of Lemmings. Maybe TEST will save us?

Del
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#442 - 2014-01-17 19:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Usman Bello wrote:


Right now you guys can't even be arsed to protect your own POCOs and let them fight your "not so good" fights for you.

Protection hasn't really been necessary, the lemmings haven't done more than pinged a poco in passing since Gevlon personally reinforced that first one. Perhaps they're scared of provoking a real fight Ugh Or maybe Gevlon told them "every attack gets a goon director response, attack enough and you'll burn them out!" in which case it's worked, we ignore the pings now Big smile


e: I've heard chatlogs of the initial negotiations between myself and Mangala Solaris over highsec pocos have escaped into the wild, somehow, so the smoking gun is out there. It's only a matter of time before someone posts them and demonstrates once and for all how we cowed RvB into leaving us the choicest POCOs, or how we had to beg them to leave them, or... whatever.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#443 - 2014-01-17 19:53:30 UTC
Professor Clio wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Professor Clio wrote:

Actually RvB owns 6x as many POCOs in highsec as the goons do, I think they're our pets, not the other way around Blink


Do you know any particular reason why don't you own all of them? I mean why did you leave a single frequented POCO to Goons? Your pet-pact came long before Lemmings were created, so spare the "we just want forum **** and lulz" bullshit (unless you could see into the future 2 months forward).

Admit it, the Goons bluffed that they could threaten your POCOs and you ate it!


Same reason we don't own all 10K highsec pocos, its not feasable. Its better to get a good sized piece of the pie and negociate an arrangement with the goons than to spend weeks reinfocing and defending pocos back and forth. I would think that Mr "opportunity cost" would understand that.

Edit: to clarify. Yes, I think we could take the goon pocos away from them if we wanted to, but it would come at a cost. It would mean a lot of POCO ops, both offensive and defensive and would rish burning out both our line members and our FCs. Better to negotiate an agreement and make sure both sides get what they want. I honestly don't understand how people are confused by that. Its basic diplomacy. If we had made this agreement with anyone but the goons no one would think twice about it.

And for the record I do quite enjoy all this forum drama, its a nice little bonus.

I'm sorry - are you still in RvB? WTF is going wrong over there? I'm sure diplomacy could have avoided the conflict with E-UNI. Or Brave Newbies. But the point of RvB is meant to be conflict.

And the perception from outside is that you are now very close to the CFC, seemingly starting with the talks about renting some null space for PvE a few months ago. How many RvB directors are CFC alts?

I think you need to maintain distance. There is nothing wrong with being a 'shallow' highsec alliance only interested in good fights. Chasing more serious goals will destroy RvB eventually by removing the main point of distinction.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Manny Moons
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2014-01-17 19:55:13 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
...The defense that goons have for their POCOs is that it costs a staggering amount to wardec them, so most people that have the competence to take down POCOs have enough understanding about economics to know that it's not worth it...

Since that staggering amount has suddenly been reduced to zero, maybe we'll see some POCO action soon.

Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#445 - 2014-01-17 19:56:56 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Usman Bello wrote:


Right now you guys can't even be arsed to protect your own POCOs and let them fight your "not so good" fights for you.

Protection hasn't really been necessary, the lemmings haven't done more than pinged a poco in passing since Gevlon personally reinforced that first one. Perhaps they're scared of provoking a real fight Ugh Or maybe Gevlon told them "every attack gets a goon director response, attack enough and you'll burn them out!" in which case it's worked, we ignore the pings now Big smile


e: I've heard chatlogs of the initial negotiations between myself and Mangala Solaris over highsec pocos have escaped into the wild, somehow, so the smoking gun is out there. It's only a matter of time before someone posts them and demonstrates once and for all how we cowed RvB into leaving us the choicest POCOs, or how we had to beg them to leave them, or... whatever.



An RvB Pet asked for information, and in our majesty we provide:

http://pastebin.com/wr6wyd4V
Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#446 - 2014-01-17 20:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Del DelVechio
Mangala Solaris wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Usman Bello wrote:


Right now you guys can't even be arsed to protect your own POCOs and let them fight your "not so good" fights for you.

Protection hasn't really been necessary, the lemmings haven't done more than pinged a poco in passing since Gevlon personally reinforced that first one. Perhaps they're scared of provoking a real fight Ugh Or maybe Gevlon told them "every attack gets a goon director response, attack enough and you'll burn them out!" in which case it's worked, we ignore the pings now Big smile


e: I've heard chatlogs of the initial negotiations between myself and Mangala Solaris over highsec pocos have escaped into the wild, somehow, so the smoking gun is out there. It's only a matter of time before someone posts them and demonstrates once and for all how we cowed RvB into leaving us the choicest POCOs, or how we had to beg them to leave them, or... whatever.



An RvB Pet asked for information, and in our majesty we provide:

http://pastebin.com/wr6wyd4V


Wait, we aren't Goon pets? I can take my Mittens poster down and put the Farrah Fawcett one back up?
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#447 - 2014-01-17 20:48:06 UTC
NNNNGGGHHHHH Farrah.
Northern Misfit
Far Mt Logistics
#448 - 2014-01-17 20:53:19 UTC
Del DelVechio wrote:


Wait, we aren't Goon pets? I can take my Mittens poster down and put the Farrah Fawcett one back up?


I'm pretty sure it's Scarjo posters that you're supposed to be worshipping.

High Priestess of the Sovereign Realm of Explosions and Light

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#449 - 2014-01-17 20:56:40 UTC
Professor Clio wrote:
They never threatened us, and we never threatened them. But it was clear that for either of us to control all the good pocos we'd need to fight which, to put it in your own langage, would come with an opportunity cost.


Fair assumption. However consider the alternative. That the Goons were bluffing and they are unable to defend highsec POCOs. That a 5-days old alliance can take it from them. Except we can't, because RvB is protecting them. I guess they thrown you a couple billions to "have some good fights".

You let Goons upkeep the illusion that they can hold their POCOs, and then because of this illusion you don't dare to mess with them. You are protecting the Goon POCOs from yourself fools!

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Northern Misfit
Far Mt Logistics
#450 - 2014-01-17 21:02:31 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Professor Clio wrote:
They never threatened us, and we never threatened them. But it was clear that for either of us to control all the good pocos we'd need to fight which, to put it in your own langage, would come with an opportunity cost.


Fair assumption. However consider the alternative. That the Goons were bluffing and they are unable to defend highsec POCOs. That a 5-days old alliance can take it from them. Except we can't, because RvB is protecting them. I guess they thrown you a couple billions to "have some good fights".


Actually the entity that has most recently thrown a couple billion over for us to "have some good fights" wasn't GOONs.

High Priestess of the Sovereign Realm of Explosions and Light

Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2014-01-17 21:34:38 UTC
I would like to take a moment to thank Gevlon Goblin for making my job as a recruiter even easier than before: now to the numerous advantages to joining RvB (fast action pvp, low drama, close to Jita, great community etc) I get to add "the opportunity to blow up Gevlon's ship!" I am sure there are at least a few miners who still feel you owe them a barge or two...

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#452 - 2014-01-17 21:48:36 UTC
Louis Robichaud wrote:
I would like to take a moment to thank Gevlon Goblin for making my job as a recruiter even easier than before: now to the numerous advantages to joining RvB (fast action pvp, low drama, close to Jita, great community etc) I get to add "the opportunity to blow up Gevlon's ship!" I am sure there are at least a few miners who still feel you owe them a barge or two...


Careful with that recruitment slogan! How many of your members are N3 alts? What happens if N3 recognizes RvB as a CFC member and bans its own members from having alts in RvB? How many people would you lose overnight? Remember, they have full APIs for their members, so they can enforce it.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#453 - 2014-01-17 22:08:03 UTC
"Blow up Gevlon's ship" is one of those things that would probably attract more alts from N3/PL/anyone but the CFC, not less. Lol

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#454 - 2014-01-17 22:35:16 UTC
It's a nice plan Gevlon. But you need to try a bit harder. Shocked You can't buy everything.

RvB aren't that scarey Big smile In my opinion though due to what this has taught me, they have the power to take the POCO from the Goons. Also, the Goons have the power to take them from RvB. But they don't want the long drawn out fight that would result. Obviously, they have other priorities.

It's fair enough really. It hard forcing people to play games they don't want to play. I'm watching the thread but probably not gonna add much more now. Sorry I couldn't do more!
Davish Krail
#455 - 2014-01-18 00:16:44 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:

You let Goons upkeep the illusion that they can hold their POCOs, and then because of this illusion you don't dare to mess with them. You are protecting the Goon POCOs from yourself fools!


ahahahaha oh man is this guy for real?

I can sense the frustration building due to lack of progress.

Also wololololo that guy dropped corp. What is Renegade Heart's story? Shooting capsules in a trade hub to hard?

Pitiful.
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2014-01-18 00:22:12 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Louis Robichaud wrote:
I would like to take a moment to thank Gevlon Goblin for making my job as a recruiter even easier than before: now to the numerous advantages to joining RvB (fast action pvp, low drama, close to Jita, great community etc) I get to add "the opportunity to blow up Gevlon's ship!" I am sure there are at least a few miners who still feel you owe them a barge or two...


Careful with that recruitment slogan! How many of your members are N3 alts? What happens if N3 recognizes RvB as a CFC member and bans its own members from having alts in RvB? How many people would you lose overnight? Remember, they have full APIs for their members, so they can enforce it.


N3 has more than enough RvB members (as most null sec alliance do I imagine) to have a pretty good idea of who and what RvB is about. We are not concerned.

How many miners did you blow up again?

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#457 - 2014-01-18 00:30:08 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Andski wrote:

Yes, they get to shoot war targets without paying the war bill themselves, but if they lose a ship, there's no replacement.


If there is replacement, there must be cheap doctrines enforced (see also: bombless bombers). If someone is rich enough to throw away T3s in stupid station games, who am I to tell him to stop and fly a Tornado instead?!

You probably still don't get it (your directors do, hence they activated their highsec pet): there are a bunch of bored highsec PvP-ers and PvP alts of missioners who can't do anything with their money. I just channel their boredom into shooting Goons. They would shoot N3 just as happily. They risk their ships, they spend their time, I just have to pay the war bill.

For one week war I pay 0.5B. A week haven't even passed and there is already 1.5B damage to Goons and pets. That's 300% ROI.

Yes, there is also 1.1B damage to the Lemmings. But that's not my loss. Those ships would have been lost anyway in duels, lowsec roams or an RvB Ganked fleet due to the very boredom that drives players to Lemmings.


Okay so you're wrong on all counts, as always

Enforcing cheap doctrines isn't going to help you put the slightest dent in our POCO project. You have nothing close to the numbers needed to make those cheap doctrines work. You're already off to a bad start if your goal is to rid hisec of our POCOs.

Also isn't part of the lolbjectivist philosophy that you cannot challenge the rich and powerful because they're actually better than you? Know your place~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#458 - 2014-01-18 00:37:27 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Professor Clio wrote:

Same reason we don't own all 10K highsec pocos, its not feasable. Its better to get a good sized piece of the pie and negociate an arrangement with the goons than to spend weeks reinfocing and defending pocos back and forth. I would think that Mr "opportunity cost" would understand that.


You are evading. It's obvious that you don't own POCOs in Delerik or a highsec island in Verge Vendor: no one uses those POCOs. I made some POCO scouting and the RvB POCOs are all focused around Jita. It makes sense since random industrialists use them for factories. They buy low-level PI in Jita, ship it 1-2 jumps away and process it to P3-P4. Practically all POCOs within 4 jumps of Jita are in RvB hands. Except the ones in Goon hands.

If you could take ALL other POCOs in 4 jumps, why did you missed the Goon POCOs? Why share with Goons when you could have it all?

My guess stays: the Goons threatened you and you got scared of them. And now they commanded you to defend their POCOs (that should be yours in the first place).

I don't know if this helps, but trying to play #puppetmaster doesn't work 22 pages after you played your hand. RvB knows what they get out of this. We know what we get out of it. All you're doing by gnashing your teeth and raging at both sides to create a divide is showing us that it's working. You can't stop us. You can't even begin to come close to stopping us and you know it.

How is writing your "blame everyone else" post going, by the way? Still too sore to write it?

mynnna wrote:
e: I've heard chatlogs of the initial negotiations between myself and Mangala Solaris over highsec pocos have escaped into the wild, somehow, so the smoking gun is out there. It's only a matter of time before someone posts them and demonstrates once and for all how we cowed RvB into leaving us the choicest POCOs, or how we had to beg them to leave them, or... whatever.


Well, if it's going to leak anyway, why don't we just admit we threatened to hire BL for 500trillion ISK if they said no?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

General Lemming
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#459 - 2014-01-18 00:41:58 UTC
hehe, Goonies and pets...... a great day to get tears..... Twisted
Davish Krail
#460 - 2014-01-18 00:44:54 UTC
General Lemming wrote:
hehe, Goonies and pets...... a great day to get tears..... Twisted


Hello

It would appear that your definition of tears is quite different from the rest of EVE.

Btw I was not aware that Goons did not exist outside of Jita, because you seem to only be getting kills there. Care to comment?