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Crime & Punishment

 
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Highsec PvP-ers needed for foreverwar against Goons

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Author
Usman Bello
United States of Winning
#421 - 2014-01-17 16:38:45 UTC
Northern Misfit wrote:
Now as to RvB being a pet - we are not a pet, we see this assistance as a way to get good fights.

Oh I see, so descending on an enemy you outnumber 1:100 (or is it 1:200 ?), that is already fighting even worse odds, is your way to get the "good fights", yeah that makes sense. Totally! Do RvB tournaments work in a similar fashion? Blink

Meanwhile you have a handful of crazy people opposing some evil empire that rules half the galaxy with fear and spite. What's not to like about these guys? They are like kittens. Fluffy kittens flying spaceships. Adorable..

If you're honestly about good fights... I hate to break it to you but you're clearly fighting on the wrong side.

http://unitedstatesofwinning.ytmnd.com/

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#422 - 2014-01-17 16:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Usman Bello wrote:
Northern Misfit wrote:
Now as to RvB being a pet - we are not a pet, we see this assistance as a way to get good fights.

Oh I see, so descending on an enemy you outnumber 1:100 (or is it 1:200 ?), that is already fighting even worse odds, is your way to get the "good fights", yeah that makes sense. Totally! Do RvB tournaments work in a similar fashion? Blink

Meanwhile you have a handful of crazy people opposing some evil empire that rules half the galaxy with fear and spite. What's not to like about these guys? They are like kittens. Fluffy kittens flying spaceships. Adorable..

If you're honestly about good fights... I hate to break it to you but you're clearly fighting on the wrong side.


Can't like this enough!

Did anyone honestly believe this was about good fights? After page after page of goons saying all Lemmings (and Marmites for that matter) do is camp jita and shoot shuttles/pods? Haha... But yeah, we are the ones that are delusional LolLolLol

So, goons aren't afraid of Lemmings, proven by post after post of goons and their directors claiming their non-interest and even so no poco has been harmed (YET) RVB joined but not because the pocos (since they haven't been touched) but for the good fights against station campers in jita, because they don't have good fights in RED VS BLUE... or something... Got it!

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#423 - 2014-01-17 17:00:07 UTC
Usman Bello wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
... we have a mutually beneficial pact which allows us to share complete control over any POCO we chose to.


May I ask what is so _mutually_ beneficial about this arrangement of yours? Lol


Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.

OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?

Quote:
So far it seems rather one sided

Because grrrrGOONS
Quote:
and the only contribution from the goons is to cry on the forum

Actually we saved the day all by ourselves from the maniacal evil villain that is Gevlon. We were pretty impressed with ourselves, though everyone who went was left sitting with a calculator trying to calculate the opportunity cost of fun. Apparently that's a thing.
Kagura Nikon wrote:
well you know that with so many goons someday one of them will have the ****** idea of moving a staion egg in a freighter in high sec with a character IN the alliance :P. Someday... :P

This is honestly a thing that could happen, I won't deny that, though it wouldn't be an alliance-owned egg, making this a net-positive event for everyone but the victim, much like the VFK beacon that never stops giving.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#424 - 2014-01-17 17:03:25 UTC
Manny Moons wrote:
Usman Bello wrote:
At some point it is inevitable that the goons will find themselves at a point where it's just not worthwhile to keep the POCOs, be the reason them tiring of embassing themselves or just the time and ISK wasted. This is just basic guerilla warfare 101. The Goons simply lack the presence in highsec and keeping those POCOs will just be a PITA for them.

I can't imagine many PI players choosing to use Goonswarm POCO planets. If I were inclined to do PI (heaven forbid), first of all I wouldn't be doing it in highsec. But if I were doing it in highsec, I would look for stability. Defense of a reinforced POCO is not enough - at that point, the POCO customers have already been screwed and are likely planning to relocate. POCOs need to stay open for business. The POCOs near Jita may be "premium" locations for displaying the owners' names, but they are poor choices for PI. So while they may be great catalysts for fights, it's hard to see much profit potential.


So if it helps, we aren't still doing this because no one is using them. Also Gevlon's understanding of the reinforcement mechanics is rather poor, and not what you think.
Usman Bello wrote:
Meanwhile you have a handful of crazy people opposing some evil empire that rules half the galaxy with fear and spite. What's not to like about these guys? They are like kittens. Fluffy kittens flying spaceships. Adorable...

We put a cover over the exhaust ports on our deathstars. You're all so screwed.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#425 - 2014-01-17 17:29:42 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Usman Bello wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
... we have a mutually beneficial pact which allows us to share complete control over any POCO we chose to.


May I ask what is so _mutually_ beneficial about this arrangement of yours? Lol


Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.

OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?


You join the war and show up with two Ospreys?
Usman Bello
United States of Winning
#426 - 2014-01-17 17:50:39 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.

OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?


They would end up fighting many good fights, I guess.

Right now you guys can't even be arsed to protect your own POCOs and let them fight your "not so good" fights for you.

RvB stands for - or let's say used to stand for - some form of honorable PvP. Which is why I find it so odd that they are actually into this.

Besides who would they need protection from expect the Goons? Are you bees in the mafia now ShockedNice POCO you have there! Would be a shame if something happend to it....

http://unitedstatesofwinning.ytmnd.com/

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#427 - 2014-01-17 17:57:28 UTC
Manny Moons wrote:
Usman Bello wrote:
At some point it is inevitable that the goons will find themselves at a point where it's just not worthwhile to keep the POCOs, be the reason them tiring of embassing themselves or just the time and ISK wasted. This is just basic guerilla warfare 101. The Goons simply lack the presence in highsec and keeping those POCOs will just be a PITA for them.
I can't imagine many PI players choosing to use Goonswarm POCO planets. If I were inclined to do PI (heaven forbid), first of all I wouldn't be doing it in highsec. But if I were doing it in highsec, I would look for stability. Defense of a reinforced POCO is not enough - at that point, the POCO customers have already been screwed and are likely planning to relocate. POCOs need to stay open for business. The POCOs near Jita may be "premium" locations for displaying the owners' names, but they are poor choices for PI. So while they may be great catalysts for fights, it's hard to see much profit potential.
How many do you think get reinforced? Most high sec wardec groups are not interested in shooting a POCO, since it's not profitable and not fun. The defense that goons have for their POCOs is that it costs a staggering amount to wardec them, so most people that have the competence to take down POCOs have enough understanding about economics to know that it's not worth it.
On the other hand, I see the smaller groups having their POCOS reinforced almost every day, since it costs 50m to wardec them and they hold no real resistance, so groups like PIRAT can take them down with ease.
Then add onto that the fact that the goon/RVB rates are pretty much the best rates you are likely to get (5% I believe, remembering that it shows as 15% since concord take their 10% if you have no skill). Factory POCOs close to hubs with low rates are just the best place logistically to do high volume processing which is why they are used.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#428 - 2014-01-17 18:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Snot Shot wrote:
The “you’re not winning fast enough” tears from goonies and their pets from this action is very typical of you F1 monkeys tbh….Lol
I think you've missed the main point being raised. That's that what the lemmings are doing now is no different to what they were doing when they were in Marmite. It's not like before Lemmings was made, goons were safely flying around highsec uncontested. All that's happened is they've paid (1b to make the alliance +their second wardec cost) to shift some of those kills to a new name.
So what's being contested is the idea that this in any way matters. Honestly it confounds me that Marmite are happy to basically hand over their work to Gevlon so he can take half the credit for everything they do to the goons. I genuinely thought they were just scamming him out of isk and we were all going to slap our knees laughing once it all blew over.

Snot Shot wrote:
This thing could just snowball into a casual and consistent presence in Empire which forces goonies to use alternate means to access trade HUBs etc. and that’s effective.
They already do this. For starters it's main rule for many null alliances - don't use an alliance character in high sec. Secondly, Marmite, who actively camp the Jita undock have had goons at war since november.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#429 - 2014-01-17 18:29:48 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.
OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?


Except no one goes after RvB POCOs, because RvB is unquestionably the strongest highsec PvP organization. On the other hand Goons are a joke in highsec, just like we could see with that 99.6% ISK ratio, and easy reinforces.

Goons simply bluffed RvB into submission, telling them that they COULD threaten RvB POCOs which is an outright joke. It's like saying RvB could threaten Deklein sov.

However Lemmings called on the bluff. And even better, Lemmings don't even want POCOs. We just want Goons not having them. It's only time before RvB realizes that they are pets here, without even getting spoils like FA or SMA.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#430 - 2014-01-17 18:40:23 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.
OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?


Except no one goes after RvB POCOs, because RvB is unquestionably the strongest highsec PvP organization. On the other hand Goons are a joke in highsec, just like we could see with that 99.6% ISK ratio, and easy reinforces.

Goons simply bluffed RvB into submission, telling them that they COULD threaten RvB POCOs which is an outright joke. It's like saying RvB could threaten Deklein sov.

However Lemmings called on the bluff. And even better, Lemmings don't even want POCOs. We just want Goons not having them. It's only time before RvB realizes that they are pets here, without even getting spoils like FA or SMA.


We already know were Goon pets. Just being mentioned in the same thread with Mittens and mynnna gives us a warm fuzzy that will last for months.....We have been assimilated.

Del
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#431 - 2014-01-17 18:52:40 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.
OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?


Except no one goes after RvB POCOs, because RvB is unquestionably the strongest highsec PvP organization. On the other hand Goons are a joke in highsec, just like we could see with that 99.6% ISK ratio, and easy reinforces.

Goons simply bluffed RvB into submission, telling them that they COULD threaten RvB POCOs which is an outright joke. It's like saying RvB could threaten Deklein sov.

However Lemmings called on the bluff. And even better, Lemmings don't even want POCOs. We just want Goons not having them. It's only time before RvB realizes that they are pets here, without even getting spoils like FA or SMA.
I honestly can't tell at this point if you legitimately believe this nonsense and are just that clueless about the game, or if you are saying all this in jest.
RVB and Goons both wanted POCOs back when it was estimated they'd be raking in trillions. Rather than 2 massive groups having battles over them with the POCOs spending half of their time reinforced, the 2 groups chose to split them. If this was any other group than the Goons, this would be clear and understandable.

The fact is that you don't like the Goons, thus you state everything with the usual "grr Goons" preconception that you have. And the end of the day you are an ex-TEST, so what can be expected? You have no intention of actually learning to play EVE, you only want to sit on your highchair spewing mountains of nonsense like it's going to somehow make you relevant. I just think it's a shame that Marmite have had to relegate themselves to the level of "Gevlon's pet" to feel better about themselves.

But please, by all means, tell me how all of this means that we are in fact bubbling with rage, while everything continues exactly the same way as it has done since way before the Lemmings even existed. Please proceed to tell me that posting this means that you are relevant, and isn't simply a sign that I have too much time on my hands and regularly post on the forum. Honestly, what you and a bunch of alts say on a forum has absolutely no impact on anything, in fact it just means that if by some miracle you ever say something that IS relevant, most of us will probably dismiss it as rubbish before even reading it. Boy who cried wolf becoming the boy who spewed bullshit and all that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Professor Clio
Apocalypse Lancers
#432 - 2014-01-17 18:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Clio
Del DelVechio wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

Think it over, it's very, very (painfully) obvious.
OK so you won't ever get that. So hint: what do you think happens if someone goes after RvB POCOs?


Except no one goes after RvB POCOs, because RvB is unquestionably the strongest highsec PvP organization. On the other hand Goons are a joke in highsec, just like we could see with that 99.6% ISK ratio, and easy reinforces.

Goons simply bluffed RvB into submission, telling them that they COULD threaten RvB POCOs which is an outright joke. It's like saying RvB could threaten Deklein sov.

However Lemmings called on the bluff. And even better, Lemmings don't even want POCOs. We just want Goons not having them. It's only time before RvB realizes that they are pets here, without even getting spoils like FA or SMA.


We already know were Goon pets. Just being mentioned in the same thread with Mittens and mynnna gives us a warm fuzzy that will last for months.....We have been assimilated.

Del


Actually RvB owns 6x as many POCOs in highsec as the goons do, I think they're our pets, not the other way around Blink

By the way I'd like to point out that the great warriors of RvB have now killed enough lemmings to turn the isk war back in RvBee's favor.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#433 - 2014-01-17 19:09:28 UTC
Professor Clio wrote:

Actually RvB owns 6x as many POCOs in highsec as the goons do, I think they're our pets, not the other way around Blink


Do you know any particular reason why don't you own all of them? I mean why did you leave a single frequented POCO to Goons? Your pet-pact came long before Lemmings were created, so spare the "we just want forum porn and lulz" bullshit (unless you could see into the future 2 months forward).

Admit it, the Goons bluffed that they could threaten your POCOs and you ate it!

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#434 - 2014-01-17 19:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Del DelVechio
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Professor Clio wrote:

Actually RvB owns 6x as many POCOs in highsec as the goons do, I think they're our pets, not the other way around Blink


Do you know any particular reason why don't you own all of them? I mean why did you leave a single frequented POCO to Goons? Your pet-pact came long before Lemmings were created, so spare the "we just want forum **** and lulz" bullshit (unless you could see into the future 2 months forward).

Admit it, the Goons bluffed that they could threaten your POCOs and you ate it!


Yes. It tasted good...
Professor Clio
Apocalypse Lancers
#435 - 2014-01-17 19:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Clio
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Professor Clio wrote:

Actually RvB owns 6x as many POCOs in highsec as the goons do, I think they're our pets, not the other way around Blink


Do you know any particular reason why don't you own all of them? I mean why did you leave a single frequented POCO to Goons? Your pet-pact came long before Lemmings were created, so spare the "we just want forum **** and lulz" bullshit (unless you could see into the future 2 months forward).

Admit it, the Goons bluffed that they could threaten your POCOs and you ate it!


Same reason we don't own all 10K highsec pocos, its not feasable. Its better to get a good sized piece of the pie and negociate an arrangement with the goons than to spend weeks reinfocing and defending pocos back and forth. I would think that Mr "opportunity cost" would understand that.

Edit: to clarify. Yes, I think we could take the goon pocos away from them if we wanted to, but it would come at a cost. It would mean a lot of POCO ops, both offensive and defensive and would rish burning out both our line members and our FCs. Better to negotiate an agreement and make sure both sides get what they want. I honestly don't understand how people are confused by that. Its basic diplomacy. If we had made this agreement with anyone but the goons no one would think twice about it.

And for the record I do quite enjoy all this forum drama, its a nice little bonus.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#436 - 2014-01-17 19:17:30 UTC
Professor Clio wrote:

Same reason we don't own all 10K highsec pocos, its not feasable. Its better to get a good sized piece of the pie and negociate an arrangement with the goons than to spend weeks reinfocing and defending pocos back and forth. I would think that Mr "opportunity cost" would understand that.


You are evading. It's obvious that you don't own POCOs in Delerik or a highsec island in Verge Vendor: no one uses those POCOs. I made some POCO scouting and the RvB POCOs are all focused around Jita. It makes sense since random industrialists use them for factories. They buy low-level PI in Jita, ship it 1-2 jumps away and process it to P3-P4. Practically all POCOs within 4 jumps of Jita are in RvB hands. Except the ones in Goon hands.

If you could take ALL other POCOs in 4 jumps, why did you missed the Goon POCOs? Why share with Goons when you could have it all?

My guess stays: the Goons threatened you and you got scared of them. And now they commanded you to defend their POCOs (that should be yours in the first place).

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Professor Clio
Apocalypse Lancers
#437 - 2014-01-17 19:20:13 UTC
They never threatened us, and we never threatened them. But it was clear that for either of us to control all the good pocos we'd need to fight which, to put it in your own langage, would come with an opportunity cost.

Oh why am I even bothering, as grandma used to say, never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#438 - 2014-01-17 19:22:07 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Professor Clio wrote:

Actually RvB owns 6x as many POCOs in highsec as the goons do, I think they're our pets, not the other way around Blink


Do you know any particular reason why don't you own all of them? I mean why did you leave a single frequented POCO to Goons? Your pet-pact came long before Lemmings were created, so spare the "we just want forum **** and lulz" bullshit (unless you could see into the future 2 months forward).

Admit it, the Goons bluffed that they could threaten your POCOs and you ate it!


We much prefer shooting ourselves to structures, that kinda limits our ambitions. At the moment.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#439 - 2014-01-17 19:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
Learned some stuff from this. I might come back to Lemmings if they will let me later on. We'll see.

For now, I am off to NPC null for more learning Cool

GL all Goons, RvB, and ofc Lemmings Twisted

Forgot about Marmites lol you too!
Usman Bello
United States of Winning
#440 - 2014-01-17 19:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Usman Bello
Lucas Kell wrote:
Rather than 2 massive groups having battles over them with the POCOs spending half of their time reinforced, the 2 groups chose to split them.


Of course, being a carebear myself it makes total sense. I do care to share! Every carebear cares to share. Maybe if the Goons would care to share a bit more of the pie there could be peace in the universe. All this fighting and killing isn't very nice anyway. We could all go mine some asteroids and sing happy songs together.

Sharing is careing!

http://unitedstatesofwinning.ytmnd.com/