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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1821 - 2014-02-01 17:00:36 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Kimmi, no matter how good your skills, no matter how quickly and efficiently you run missions in hi-sec, no matter what ship and fittings you use, some null-sec folk will still whine that you are using the wrong ship with the wrong fittings, that you are not running missions efficiently and that your sample is not large enough.

Null-sec self pitying whiners will whine no matter what, as indeed will some hi-sec folk Smile



I have no clue what your pubbie whine is about here. Do you have a problem with science?

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1822 - 2014-02-01 17:17:26 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
[quote=Kaarous Aldurald]

I'm not trying to be confrontational here. Again, I am trying to leave the politics out of this. But I am just not seeing anything near what is being claimed in this thread in terms of average High Sec Level 4 ISK/hr. It seems to be a lot of "best case scenario" ISK/hr claims.


Not best case, average case. Your method was extremely screwed up. You mean you actually did a storyline while trying to gauage SOE mission isk/hr? And you take just any mission handed to you? In other words, you did the most inefficient things you could have possibly done and used it to confirm your biases.

The worst thing is you don't understand the argument at all. NO ONE with any sense is claiming that ever dude who jumps into just any crap ship and does any crap mission is making hand over fist isk compared to high sec. The 'average' high sec mission runner probably makes less per hour than yoru average anom farmer in null sec. Where High sec people get defensive about it (and that's where most of the opposition comes from, high sec players feeling "threatened") is that they imagine we're saying "you don't deserve any isk".

What we're saying is that WE (people who know how to successfully pve and would be doing so full time in null were it not for the unblanaced rewards of high sec) make to much isk in high sec because high sec combat PVE is to rewardning. That's what the imbalance does, it drains people away from null who would otherwise be in null sec risking ships in combat pve to the safety of high sec to make the same or even slightly less isk


Look here http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Forge/Osmon#npc24. You think Osmon's constellation has more than 200k NPC kills in less than a day for crap rewards?

No one is trying to take something away from you people. We are advocating to CCP for them to restore something they took from us: the actual economic incentive to 'live' (make isk) in null sec that we once had before CCP inadvertently buffed high sec (directly with with incursions and SOE ships and indirectly with wormholes that boosted SOE LP to incredible heights and freighters that boosted Thukker LP to nearly as incredible heights, among other things). When I started eve you HAD to go to null to make it rich doing combat PVE.

As it is now, the only reason to go to null for combat PVE is "man, i'm bored of these damn missions and incursions".
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1823 - 2014-02-01 17:25:45 UTC
Not exactly what I was looking for but here is a level 3 investigation for you.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1824 - 2014-02-01 17:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
La Nariz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Kimmi, no matter how good your skills, no matter how quickly and efficiently you run missions in hi-sec, no matter what ship and fittings you use, some null-sec folk will still whine that you are using the wrong ship with the wrong fittings, that you are not running missions efficiently and that your sample is not large enough.

Null-sec self pitying whiners will whine no matter what, as indeed will some hi-sec folk Smile



I have no clue what your pubbie whine is about here. Do you have a problem with science?


You are using the word, 'pubbie' again - is it a cool school yard thing for you?

Those null-sec folk who male fantastical claims about how much hi-sec missions runners earn per hour, need to define what parameters they will consider acceptable, otherwise I stand by my earlier comment that some null-sec folk will keep moving the goal posts no matter what figures a hi-sec mission runner posts.

Edit, see Jenn aWhine in the above post 1822 for an example of what I mean Shocked

This is not a signature.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1825 - 2014-02-01 17:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
They tipped too hard by making the SOE ships available without blueprints like the rest of the pirate faction ships.

Now they have blueprints just like the rest. But unlike the rest, they can be obtained entirely in highsec. Which means that their existence is still a net buff to highsec.


What the hell are you talking about?

Before: You can't find these ships in nullsec.

After: They drop in nullsec from drone rats.

How is this a nerf to nullsec?

This is why you are getting called names.


You're hilarious.

Sisters LP could be obtained in nullsec too. All this does is make Drone Regions less utterly worthless.

Which according to you, is a bad thing... why?


What??

I don't recall drone rats dropping enough LP to get an SoE ship before.

That's new.

And I didn't say it was a bad thing. I said it was a buff to nullsec. You are saying it magically is not a buff -- which implies mental deficiency on your end.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1826 - 2014-02-01 18:02:52 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


And I didn't say it was a bad thing. I said it was a buff to nullsec. You are saying it magically is not a buff -- which implies mental deficiency on your end.


What I said was that it's not "A buff to nullsec, get the pitchforks!".

The end result of the introduction of SOE ships is a net buff to highsec more than to null. Especially since buffing something that was previously worthless under every circumstance shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

You're just bitching to *****.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1827 - 2014-02-01 18:07:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


And I didn't say it was a bad thing. I said it was a buff to nullsec. You are saying it magically is not a buff -- which implies mental deficiency on your end.


What I said was that it's not "A buff to nullsec, get the pitchforks!".

The end result of the introduction of SOE ships is a net buff to highsec more than to null. Especially since buffing something that was previously worthless under every circumstance shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

You're just bitching to *****.


You are delusional.

Adding loot to a loot table is a buff.

If you don't want to admit it - fine. It just makes you look like an idiot.

You're probably used to that, though.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1828 - 2014-02-01 18:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Kimmi, no matter how good your skills, no matter how quickly and efficiently you run missions in hi-sec, no matter what ship and fittings you use, some null-sec folk will still whine that you are using the wrong ship with the wrong fittings, that you are not running missions efficiently and that your sample is not large enough.

Null-sec self pitying whiners will whine no matter what, as indeed will some hi-sec folk Smile



I have no clue what your pubbie whine is about here. Do you have a problem with science?


You are using the word, 'pubbie' again - is it a cool school yard thing for you?

Those null-sec folk who male fantastical claims about how much hi-sec missions runners earn per hour, need to define what parameters they will consider acceptable, otherwise I stand by my earlier comment that some null-sec folk will keep moving the goal posts no matter what figures a hi-sec mission runner posts.

Edit, see Jenn aWhine in the above post 1822 for an example of what I mean Shocked


Its an exclusive word you gain access to for paying :tenbux:. And yes it does make me cooler than you :colbert:.

Yeah the highsec pubbies keep moving the goal posts and we keep calling them on it. We haven't moved our goal posts in that highsec reward is still too high for the risk posed.

You want parameters okay here's parameters:

-Nullsec/WH reward: 100%,

-Lowsec reward: 80%,

-Highsec reward 50%.

There we go it balances out the risk : reward. That means the maximum a highsec player can make per hour should be half of what nullsec players make.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1829 - 2014-02-01 18:11:54 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


And I didn't say it was a bad thing. I said it was a buff to nullsec. You are saying it magically is not a buff -- which implies mental deficiency on your end.


What I said was that it's not "A buff to nullsec, get the pitchforks!".

The end result of the introduction of SOE ships is a net buff to highsec more than to null. Especially since buffing something that was previously worthless under every circumstance shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

You're just bitching to *****.


You are delusional.

Adding loot to a loot table is a buff.

If you don't want to admit it - fine. It just makes you look like an idiot.

You're probably used to that, though.


But adding items to an LP store that didn't have them before isn't a buff? Roll

However much you don't want to back down on the point, the net result is a buff to highsec.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#1830 - 2014-02-01 18:12:47 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

You are using the word, 'pubbie' again - is it a cool school yard thing for you?



Jenn aWhine


y u do dis?

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
ashley Eoner
#1831 - 2014-02-01 18:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
La Nariz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Kimmi, no matter how good your skills, no matter how quickly and efficiently you run missions in hi-sec, no matter what ship and fittings you use, some null-sec folk will still whine that you are using the wrong ship with the wrong fittings, that you are not running missions efficiently and that your sample is not large enough.

Null-sec self pitying whiners will whine no matter what, as indeed will some hi-sec folk Smile



I have no clue what your pubbie whine is about here. Do you have a problem with science?


You are using the word, 'pubbie' again - is it a cool school yard thing for you?

Those null-sec folk who male fantastical claims about how much hi-sec missions runners earn per hour, need to define what parameters they will consider acceptable, otherwise I stand by my earlier comment that some null-sec folk will keep moving the goal posts no matter what figures a hi-sec mission runner posts.

Edit, see Jenn aWhine in the above post 1822 for an example of what I mean Shocked


Its an exclusive word you gain access to for paying :tenbux:. And yes it does make me cooler than you :colbert:.

Yeah the highsec pubbies keep moving the goal posts and we keep calling them on it. We haven't moved our goal posts in that highsec reward is still too high for the risk posed.


You can't effectively use a MTU if you're trying to blitz. The slowdown just isn't worth the time. Also blitzing in a marauder is hindered by the slow warp speeds (time to get into warp and velocity). Frankly the numbers that are being thrown around about highsec indicates to me that they are using un-nerfed tengu rates of old. You know before all the nerfs to the ship/weapons platform and missions. You can't even blitz some of the old blitz missions because of spawn changes and such.
You want parameters okay here's parameters:

-Nullsec/WH reward: 100%,

-Lowsec reward: 80%,

-Highsec reward 50%.

There we go it balances out the risk : reward. That means the maximum a highsec player can make per hour should be half of what nullsec players make.

Well according to your fellow goon member he can make a straight 160m an hour not including drops which can easily double or triple the isk per hour. So assuming +220m an hour the ideal rate of 110m an hour in highsec is under half the rate of null..


So now you have no reason to complain because in optimal conditions nullsec nets you over twice the income that highsec can get you.


MTUs are a waste to use while blitzing because missions griefers will probe them down and laugh in glee when they spot one. Also the whole concept of blitzing means that you don't have time to stop moving for long.

I think these people are using old pre-nerf numbers from tengu blitzing. The HML platform was nerfed and I believe the tengu has been nerfed too. Hell even the missions have been nerfed since then as you can no longer blitz some due to spawn changes, requirements to clear full rooms to unlock gates and such. Tengus also warp much faster then even the marauders. If you're using a regular BS then blitzing becomes even less efficient.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1832 - 2014-02-01 18:54:36 UTC
Billy McCandless wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

You are using the word, 'pubbie' again - is it a cool school yard thing for you?



Jenn aWhine


y u do dis?


lol, because that's typical, hypocrites gonna hypo I guess.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1833 - 2014-02-01 18:58:22 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

Well according to your fellow goon member he can make a straight 160m an hour not including drops which can easily double or triple the isk per hour. So assuming +220m an hour the ideal rate of 110m an hour in highsec is under half the rate of null..


So now you have no reason to complain because in optimal conditions nullsec nets you over twice the income that highsec can get you.


MTUs are a waste to use while blitzing because missions griefers will probe them down and laugh in glee when they spot one.

I think these people are using old pre-nerf numbers from tengu blitzing. The HML platform was nerfed and I believe the tengu has been nerfed too. Hell even the missions have been nerfed since then as you can no longer blitz some due to spawn changes and such. Tengus also warp much faster then even the marauders. If you're using a regular BS then blitzing becomes even less efficient.


Why don't you quote what you're trying to reference and try again here. You're faffing about nothing.

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ashley Eoner
#1834 - 2014-02-01 19:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
La Nariz wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

Well according to your fellow goon member he can make a straight 160m an hour not including drops which can easily double or triple the isk per hour. So assuming +220m an hour the ideal rate of 110m an hour in highsec is under half the rate of null..


So now you have no reason to complain because in optimal conditions nullsec nets you over twice the income that highsec can get you.


MTUs are a waste to use while blitzing because missions griefers will probe them down and laugh in glee when they spot one.

I think these people are using old pre-nerf numbers from tengu blitzing. The HML platform was nerfed and I believe the tengu has been nerfed too. Hell even the missions have been nerfed since then as you can no longer blitz some due to spawn changes and such. Tengus also warp much faster then even the marauders. If you're using a regular BS then blitzing becomes even less efficient.


Why don't you quote what you're trying to reference and try again here. You're faffing about nothing.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4170495#post4170495

Thank you come again.


EDIT : I'm sure he's in hot water now for letting the truth out. It's quite clear that goons in particular have been on a campaign to nerf highsec. Part of that campaign is the propaganda war which involves understating nullsec income as much as possible while wildly overstating highsec income.

EDIT 2 : In before grr goons pubbie and all the childish trolls your type engages in. I have nothing against the goons as I find their activities fairly hilarious. This charade is old and moldy though.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1835 - 2014-02-01 19:24:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But adding items to an LP store that didn't have them before isn't a buff? Roll


Of course that was a buff, when it happened. But it already happened. It doesn't count as a retroactive buff for each and every patch.

This is why when patch 1.10 comes out, they don't list the changes that happened in patch .05, because that patch already happened long ago.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
However much you don't want to back down on the point, the net result is a buff to highsec.


This is hilarious!

By this logic, you can take any arbitrary slice of time that benefits your view.

This is obviously a fallacy.

Stuff that happened 15 patches ago happened 15 patches ago. Whatever happens next patch is it's own thing.

For every game I have ever played, if there is a beneficial change that happens in a patch to a style of play or item or whatever....It's called a "buff."

You won't ever hear somebody say something like "Well, that doesn't count as a buff because 15 patches ago ____ happened."

Nobody says that because it's dumb as ****.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1836 - 2014-02-01 19:25:39 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4170495#post4170495

Thank you come again.


EDIT : I'm sure he's in hot water now for letting the truth out. It's quite clear that goons in particular have been on a campaign to nerf highsec. Part of that campaign is the propaganda war which involves understating nullsec income as much as possible while wildly overstating highsec income.

EDIT 2 : In before grr goons pubbie and all the childish trolls your type engages in. I have nothing against the goons as I find their activities fairly hilarious. This charade is old and moldy though.


As has been pointed out hundreds of times now only 100 people can run these at a time per region.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1837 - 2014-02-01 19:30:26 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4170495#post4170495

Thank you come again.


EDIT : I'm sure he's in hot water now for letting the truth out. It's quite clear that goons in particular have been on a campaign to nerf highsec. Part of that campaign is the propaganda war which involves understating nullsec income as much as possible while wildly overstating highsec income.

EDIT 2 : In before grr goons pubbie and all the childish trolls your type engages in. I have nothing against the goons as I find their activities fairly hilarious. This charade is old and moldy though.


You are the same highsec pubbie several of us have had to educate many times over. Okay but first we have to restrict it to only 100 people in highsec being able to make isk per nullsec region then your argument holds up. Anoms are analogous to missions so you can compare the income of those two. Sites are randomly spawned things you must compete with literally everyone else over. So sure if you want to make it so that highsec missions are hotly contested then we have a comparison.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1838 - 2014-02-01 19:35:17 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Okay but first we have to restrict it to only 100 people in highsec being able to make isk per nullsec region then your argument holds up


hahhahahahhahhahahahhahahahahha

Look at this guy.

He thinks the only way you can make ISK in nullsec is to shoot red squares, then compares that to "highsec."

I give this thread a 10/10 for comedy value. It just never stops.

I can read something that is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever read, and minutes later somebody else beats even that.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1839 - 2014-02-01 19:36:00 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4170495#post4170495

Thank you come again.


EDIT : I'm sure he's in hot water now for letting the truth out. It's quite clear that goons in particular have been on a campaign to nerf highsec. Part of that campaign is the propaganda war which involves understating nullsec income as much as possible while wildly overstating highsec income.

EDIT 2 : In before grr goons pubbie and all the childish trolls your type engages in. I have nothing against the goons as I find their activities fairly hilarious. This charade is old and moldy though.


You are the same highsec pubbie several of us have had to educate many times over. Okay but first we have to restrict it to only 100 people in highsec being able to make isk per nullsec region then your argument holds up. Anoms are analogous to missions so you can compare the income of those two. Sites are randomly spawned things you must compete with literally everyone else over. So sure if you want to make it so that highsec missions are hotly contested then we have a comparison.

High sec missions are far more contested than anything in Sov space. Or are you really as bad at EVE as you are painting yourself?

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1840 - 2014-02-01 19:42:01 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

High sec missions are far more contested than anything in Sov space. Or are you really as bad at EVE as you are painting yourself?

Mr Epeen Cool


Whats to contest? They are literally unlimited.