These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1741 - 2014-02-01 11:12:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
These are the numbers compiled from my missioning overnight. I do have a lot of additional data. If anyone needs anything specific please let me know.

Began at 0530

Starting wallet 0.00
Starting LP 2196

Agent: Akujainen Hivas

Ship used: Golem
I did use an Eagle for Wildcat Strike. Might have been better off in an HML Drake as my missile skills are better than my gun skills. But I do like flying the HAC.

I did no looting (aside from mission objectives) and no salvage.

End at 0930

Ending Wallet: 67,865,081.00
Ending LP: 37,790

Missions Completed: 14

Longest Mission Time: Vengeance 32 minutes

Storyline Missions: 1 (Under Suspicion-Guristas) 2 jumps to Agent and 2 jumps back to Hivas

Total Jumps: 18

ISK Value of LP from: ISK per LP Store = 1,356

ISK value of LP earned 35546 * 1356 = 48,265,464.00

Total earned per hour in 4 hours (67,865,081 + 48,265,464.00)/4 = 29,032,636

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1742 - 2014-02-01 11:29:33 UTC
I don't know if anyone has noticed but ccp has not been nerfing high sec with modules like the ESS. Indeed in the ESS thread a ccp dev said that the amount of money generated in null was an inflation driver and that something had to be done about it due to the crazy amount of isk generated in null. Therefore high sec is not the problem, null sec however is.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1743 - 2014-02-01 11:38:37 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I don't know if anyone has noticed but ccp has not been nerfing high sec with modules like the ESS. Indeed in the ESS thread a ccp dev said that the amount of money generated in null was an inflation driver and that something had to be done about it due to the crazy amount of isk generated in null. Therefore high sec is not the problem, null sec however is.

No, it isn't. That dev was also wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1744 - 2014-02-01 11:56:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

No, it isn't. That dev was also wrong.

So the largest isk faucet in the game that accounts for nearly 50% of all Isk entering the game isn't an inflation driver?
Inflation may have been under control as of CSM Summer summit, but it doesn't mean that the largest isk faucet in the game doesn't have a strong influence on it. Lets be serious here.

Under control does not mean 'can't be improved on at all'.
Though sure, it doesn't mean 'has to be improved on' either.
However the ESS is not an income nerf to Null on the whole any more with it's revised stats. It 'should' (Apparently it's bugged atm but a fix is incoming or something?) be making for an overall income growth due to the additional LP even if you just sit an alt (That couldn't be running the anoms because of capacity issues atm so wouldn't have been making isk anyway) on it spamming 'share all' constantly. (About 115% income overall compared to old income at that point).

So in theory Null has received a buff to income. While a possible slight nerf to isk income which helps with the faucets. Now you just have to make it actually work properly, with that epic organisation you have shouldn't be a problem.
ashley Eoner
#1745 - 2014-02-01 12:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kimmi Chan wrote:
These are the numbers compiled from my missioning overnight. I do have a lot of additional data. If anyone needs anything specific please let me know.

Began at 0530

Starting wallet 0.00
Starting LP 2196

Agent: Akujainen Hivas

Ship used: Golem
I did use an Eagle for Wildcat Strike. Might have been better off in an HML Drake as my missile skills are better than my gun skills. But I do like flying the HAC.

I did no looting (aside from mission objectives) and no salvage.

End at 0930

Ending Wallet: 67,865,081.00
Ending LP: 37,790

Missions Completed: 14

Longest Mission Time: Vengeance 32 minutes

Storyline Missions: 1 (Under Suspicion-Guristas) 2 jumps to Agent and 2 jumps back to Hivas

Total Jumps: 18

ISK Value of LP from: ISK per LP Store = 1,356

ISK value of LP earned 35546 * 1356 = 48,265,464.00

Total earned per hour in 4 hours (67,865,081 + 48,265,464.00)/4 = 29,032,636
It's hard to get full value on a large monthly supply of LP too. Having said that overestimating the value of the LP does no harm here.

On the flip side if you salvage/loot carefully in a marauder you can sometimes increase your income per hour.

I don't fly a golem but I wonder why you didn't squeeze a damage module in the last low instead of the DCU II?


EDIT : I'm not really a fan of blitzing these days as transit time can be a pain. My dps is high enough that I just blast through missions rapidly while a second support account loots/salvages.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1746 - 2014-02-01 12:59:10 UTC
Tch, see, not entirely sure (since I consider myself to suck at PvE), but those numbers are indicative of one or two things.

Either you need more practice, or your fit needs redone.

Because I certainly should not be able to beat that in a Navpoc. And I easily can.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1747 - 2014-02-01 13:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tch, see, not entirely sure (since I consider myself to suck at PvE), but those numbers are indicative of one or two things.

Either you need more practice, or your fit needs redone.

Because I certainly should not be able to beat that in a Navpoc. And I easily can.


It could also be that I may have gotten some missions that sucked.
It could also be that 2 of the missions were not completely blitzed because I missed one of the requirement rats.
It could a lot of things.

What it is not is anywhere near 90m ISK/hr.

Say what you want about the fit or what practice I need.

What more can I do to that fit to get another 60m ISK/hr?
How much practice would you say one needs to be able to make an additional 60m ISK/hr?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here. Again, I am trying to leave the politics out of this. But I am just not seeing anything near what is being claimed in this thread in terms of average High Sec Level 4 ISK/hr. It seems to be a lot of "best case scenario" ISK/hr claims.

ED: Adding list of missions received. None were declined.

The Assault
Gone Berserk
The Wildcat Strike
The Anomaly 1/3
The Anomaly 2/3
The Anomaly 3/3
Attack of the Drones
Vengeance
Unauthorized Military Presence
Under Suspicion
Gone Berserk
Attack of the Drones
Infiltrated Outposts
Intercept the Saboteurs

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1748 - 2014-02-01 13:17:46 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Total earned per hour in 4 hours (67,865,081 + 48,265,464.00)/4 = 29,032,636

Thanks for the data, Kimmi. I don't blitz through missions, but this weekend I'll take some test points doing exactly that to see how I fare against the "150mil/hr" claim. My mission runner is pretty much level 5 to all relevant combat skills to the CNR and Navy Apoc and all pertinent social skills.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1749 - 2014-02-01 13:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Kimmi Chan wrote:
But I am just not seeing anything near what is being claimed in this thread in terms of average High Sec Level 4 ISK/hr. It seems to be a lot of "best case scenario" ISK/hr claims.


And that is somehow... not the case when people talk about nullsec isk/hr?

Like all of the bullshit claims in this thread, those aren't people spouting off about how nullsec's best case scenarios are better than highsec's?

MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Total earned per hour in 4 hours (67,865,081 + 48,265,464.00)/4 = 29,032,636

Thanks for the data, Kimmi. I don't blitz through missions, but this weekend I'll take some test points doing exactly that to see how I fare against the "150mil/hr" claim. My mission runner is pretty much level 5 to all relevant combat skills to the CNR and Navy Apoc and all pertinent social skills.


Once again, your lies of omission are hilarious.

150mil/hr was the incursion figure.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1750 - 2014-02-01 13:20:54 UTC
Ok, I'll just say it straight up.

Your fit, your methods, or both are flawed.

Because, like I said before, there is no way in hell I should be able to beat a Golem in a Navpoc. And I can easily beat the numbers you put up.

So quite simply, you're doing it wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1751 - 2014-02-01 13:26:47 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
What it is not is anywhere near 90m ISK/hr.

The claim is that not only could you achieve this number, but that it is sustainable Shocked!

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1752 - 2014-02-01 13:29:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Once again, your lies of omission are hilarious.

150mil/hr was the incursion figure.

Baltec1 wrote:
I also chose 100-120 mil for missions as thats more the norm although 180 mil is easily doable in SOE missions.

You're right, I should have said 180 mil Roll.

Troll.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1753 - 2014-02-01 13:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ok, I'll just say it straight up.

Your fit, your methods, or both are flawed.

Because, like I said before, there is no way in hell I should be able to beat a Golem in a Navpoc. And I can easily beat the numbers you put up.

So quite simply, you're doing it wrong.


Then I'm certain you can tell me what changes can be made to achieve the additional 60m ISK/hr.

The fit may not be perfect. My method may not be perfect. But to a point that it drives a 66% loss?

Minutes spent in each mission:

The Assault 11
Gone Berserk 11
The Wildcat Strike 19
The Anomaly 1/3 10
The Anomaly 2/3 6
The Anomaly 3/3 20
Attack of the Drones 12
Vengeance 32
Unauthorized Military Presence 22
Under Suspicion 24
Gone Berserk 10
Attack of the Drones 10
Infiltrated Outposts 21
Intercept the Saboteurs 23

ED: Minutes from time of accepting mission to completing mission with the agent.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1754 - 2014-02-01 13:35:26 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Once again, your lies of omission are hilarious.

150mil/hr was the incursion figure.

Baltec1 wrote:
I also chose 100-120 mil for missions as thats more the norm although 180 mil is easily doable in SOE missions.

You're right, I should have said 180 mil Roll.

Troll.


Kimmi isn't doing SoE.

Are you? And if you are, which item do you have chosen to sell for? Which agents are you planning on running, with which ones as a backup if you have to decline? How are you planning on mitigating travel times?

Come on then, let's have the specifics, since you're claiming to be the subject matter expert here.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1755 - 2014-02-01 13:40:58 UTC
Quote:
Then I'm certain you can tell me what changes can be made to achieve the additional 60m ISK/hr.


No, I really can't. I know what works for me, but in general I suck at PvE. I make most of my money scamming/corp thefting, and with PI.

Quote:
The fit may not be perfect. My method may not be perfect. But to a point that it drives a 66% loss?


That's like asking me if a slight error on the fitting on a PvP ship can drive a loss.

Yes, it can. Little things make the difference. Once again, PvE is hardly my forte, and I fly Amarr or Minmatar ships for PvE anyway, so I can't exactly tell you how to fit that Golem for it.

To answer such things, Jenn is by far a better authority than I am. I just merely wanted to point out that your numbers right now are pretty low, so something is clearly wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#1756 - 2014-02-01 13:41:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I don't know if anyone has noticed but ccp has not been nerfing high sec with modules like the ESS. Indeed in the ESS thread a ccp dev said that the amount of money generated in null was an inflation driver and that something had to be done about it due to the crazy amount of isk generated in null. Therefore high sec is not the problem, null sec however is.

No, it isn't. That dev was also wrong.


And goons are right like always? Twisted

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1757 - 2014-02-01 13:44:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kimmi isn't doing SoE.

Are you? And if you are, which item do you have chosen to sell for? Which agents are you planning on running, with which ones as a backup if you have to decline? How are you planning on mitigating travel times?


This is a good point and one that I think really needs addressing.

I can not comment on this as I do not have data or evidence to back it up BUT

Assuming that Mission X for a Navy Clone mission gives the same LP as Mission X for SOE.
Assuming also that the sec status of the Navy Clone and SOE agents are the same.

Can it be said that LP amount, not ISK value of the LP, is the same?

My first mission, The Assault, awarded 4539 LP. Abagawa and Osmon are both 0.6 systems so if we assume that an SOE Level 4 agent in Osmon gives the same amount of LP for the same mission then the amount of LP gain would be similar or identical as well.

The fact that the LP for SOE trades higher than Navy Clone is related to the player driven economy and is not something CCP likely wants to intervene in and I doubt anyone really wants them intervening in such a thing as it sets a dangerous precedent.

But yes, Hivas is NOT an SOE agent.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1758 - 2014-02-01 13:48:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kimmi isn't doing SoE. Are you?


MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
I'm actually considering setting up base in an SOE system. I need to find the time to make the move with my mission runner.



Quote:
And if you are, which item do you have chosen to sell for? Which agents are you planning on running, with which ones as a backup if you have to decline? How are you planning on mitigating travel times?

Come on then, let's have the specifics, since you're claiming to be the subject matter expert here.

First, the "conversion" will be based off whatever sells the highest. So, what items I have "chosen to sell" is irrelevant, as I doubt I'll even have enough LP to sell anything of good value. What matters is how much I accrue within 4 hours.

Second, the who, what, where, when, and how will be provided AFTER I run the missions. I wasn't born yesterday. I'm not about to just hand you a gank without you having to work for it.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1759 - 2014-02-01 13:49:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Then I'm certain you can tell me what changes can be made to achieve the additional 60m ISK/hr.


No, I really can't. I know what works for me, but in general I suck at PvE. I make most of my money scamming/corp thefting, and with PI.

Quote:
The fit may not be perfect. My method may not be perfect. But to a point that it drives a 66% loss?


That's like asking me if a slight error on the fitting on a PvP ship can drive a loss.

Yes, it can. Little things make the difference. Once again, PvE is hardly my forte, and I fly Amarr or Minmatar ships for PvE anyway, so I can't exactly tell you how to fit that Golem for it.

To answer such things, Jenn is by far a better authority than I am. I just merely wanted to point out that your numbers right now are pretty low, so something is clearly wrong.


Kaarous it's okay to say you don't know. But to immediately dismiss it as something wrong with the fit or my method because the numbers I got don't support your claim is no bueno man.

I agree the fit can be better. I agree that I made mistakes. But I can't see how mistakes of this nature create a deficiency of 66% in terms of ISK/hr. Yes a slight error causes PvP loss. As you've noted we're not talking about PvP here. Little things do make a difference they do not make a difference of 60m ISK/hr.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Taranogas 3rd
Doomheim
#1760 - 2014-02-01 13:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Taranogas 3rd
Kimmi Chan wrote:
These are the numbers compiled from my missioning overnight. I do have a lot of additional data. If anyone needs anything specific please let me know.

Began at 0530

~snip~


yup, sounds about right, everytime I hear someone saying 50 - 90 mill/hr I just wanna hit him in the head with a frying pan, thats calculating that you're getting over 2-2.5k+ lp/isk each time, that you have a salvage alt and are somehow getting the best missions and blitzing through them like butter.



Quote:
Kimmi isn't doing SoE.

Are you? And if you are, which item do you have chosen to sell for? Which agents are you planning on running, with which ones as a backup if you have to decline? How are you planning on mitigating travel times?

Come on then, let's have the specifics, since you're claiming to be the subject matter expert here.


why not post your specifics then ? how are you averaging the high isk income you claim? Kimmi already provided it, how about yours?

And this is (again which I stated 3 times already) completely disregarding doing lvl 4 missions as a NEW PLAYER, his income will be very low, lvl 4 with basic battleship and supports skills give barely above high sec solo mining income, how do I know? I do both.