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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1641 - 2014-01-30 15:05:00 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.



Well what a coincidence. It may take *years* before you see the numbers they are claiming.

How convenient.


Let's just wait for the numbers. We can talk all day about ISK/hr provided perfect conditions but I think that unrealistic and absolutist. Let's table this kind of talk until after the numbers are provided.



I have done sisters missions on a single account with decent social skills and never saw 150 million/hr sustained. Such numbers were nonsense when I did them (years ago), and even with the current LP conversion are still nonsense. Did I hit that rate on my best hours? Yes. Could it be sustained? No, not a remote chance in a frozen hell.

However, I do look forward to your results.


I have 0 in SC so that will lower the amount of LP I get. However, it can always be extrapolated to figure it for varying levels of skill in SC.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1642 - 2014-01-30 15:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Kimmi,

Could you please post your results here once you gather your data? I'm curious in seeing how realistic is the 150M/hr discussed here.

Thanks

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1643 - 2014-01-30 15:42:34 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi,

Could you please post your results here once you gather your data?


Of course! Any argument without the data is irrelevant and impotent.

If there are any specific datum that people require please let me know.

If anyone else is interested in running L4s in Lanngisi, I would encourage that to increase the sample size and provide possibly more accurate data based on an average.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1644 - 2014-01-30 15:49:26 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi,

Could you please post your results here once you gather your data?


Of course! Any argument without the data is irrelevant and impotent.

If there are any specific datum that people require please let me know.

If anyone else is interested in running L4s in Lanngisi, I would encourage that to increase the sample size and provide possibly more accurate data based on an average.

I'm actually considering setting up base in an SOE system. I need to find the time to make the move with my mission runner.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1645 - 2014-01-30 16:01:24 UTC
3 things you'll need.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Zbikoki%27s_Hacker_Card (for worlds collide)

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gate_Key (for Dread Pirate Scarlet)

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage (for learing the right mission to do

After that, you need to know what to sell. I'm lazy so I stick to Sisters probes, but probe launchers, virtue implants and of course the ships are good too.

After doing Sisters, you can try these guys and get almost as good isk/lp conversions.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1646 - 2014-01-30 16:07:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
3 things you'll need.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Zbikoki%27s_Hacker_Card (for worlds collide)

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gate_Key (for Dread Pirate Scarlet)

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage (for learing the right mission to do

After that, you need to know what to sell. I'm lazy so I stick to Sisters probes, but probe launchers, virtue implants and of course the ships are good too.

After doing Sisters, you can try these guys and get almost as good isk/lp conversions.





Thank you Jenn. I will have a look at these resources between now and then (because I'm certainly not going to do any work at work Blink)

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1647 - 2014-01-30 16:15:42 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:


I have done sisters missions on a single account with decent social skills and never saw 150 million/hr sustained. Such numbers were nonsense when I did them (years ago), and even with the current LP conversion are still nonsense. Did I hit that rate on my best hours? Yes. Could it be sustained? No, not a remote chance in a frozen hell.

However, I do look forward to your results.


Bolded the only important part. Was the before or after the introduction of wormholes (which made the demand for SOE probing implants and gear go way up)? Or before CCPs exploration mechanic changes that made probing easier , or before CCP made probing a part of the tutorial (along with a free probing ship).

And since you say years ago, that means that you haven't missioned for SOE since CCP added 3 new ships (which again increase the value of SOE probing gear and implants because now people are spending LP on ships) right?

But who needs SOE when there are Thukkers in the form of Trust Partners in high sec?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1648 - 2014-01-30 16:30:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:


I have done sisters missions on a single account with decent social skills and never saw 150 million/hr sustained. Such numbers were nonsense when I did them (years ago), and even with the current LP conversion are still nonsense. Did I hit that rate on my best hours? Yes. Could it be sustained? No, not a remote chance in a frozen hell.

However, I do look forward to your results.


Bolded the only important part. Was the before or after the introduction of wormholes (which made the demand for SOE probing implants and gear go way up)? Or before CCPs exploration mechanic changes that made probing easier , or before CCP made probing a part of the tutorial (along with a free probing ship).

And since you say years ago, that means that you haven't missioned for SOE since CCP added 3 new ships (which again increase the value of SOE probing gear and implants because now people are spending LP on ships) right?

But who needs SOE when there are Thukkers in the form of Trust Partners in high sec?




Jenn is going to be directing a new comedy - Meet the Thukkers

Lol

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1649 - 2014-01-30 16:37:56 UTC
Nobody answered my question in the other thread.

Is Thukker really pronounced the way I think it is???

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1650 - 2014-01-30 16:42:33 UTC
I'm curious. Is Mother Thukker the son or the mom?

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1651 - 2014-01-30 16:45:56 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
3 things you'll need.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Zbikoki%27s_Hacker_Card (for worlds collide)

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gate_Key (for Dread Pirate Scarlet)

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage (for learing the right mission to do

After that, you need to know what to sell. I'm lazy so I stick to Sisters probes, but probe launchers, virtue implants and of course the ships are good too.

After doing Sisters, you can try these guys and get almost as good isk/lp conversions.





Thank you Jenn. I will have a look at these resources between now and then (because I'm certainly not going to do any work at work Blink)


Cool, and when you're done with all that you can join Faction Warfare because that's the best place to see another (this time non-high sec) part of the massive combat PVE imblance. This is simply insane . And i mean really insane. you simply should not be able to do that with frigates, drakes, caracals, hell anything at all.

Still, I have a stack of 20 Caracals in Rens just for that lol. Just because something is madly imbalanced doesn't mean i'm not gonna get my piece of the pie.



The point of alll this can be summed up in the question I asked Infintiy Ziona to answer during his "nulls ec makes so much more" thread (a question he has thus far refused to answer).

Do you think we're crazy? Do you think we can't see our own wallets and do the math on what works best given the actual in-game situation?

How do you account for "professional" PVe players like me (how, weirdly enough, like EVE PVE just for itself) as well as PVP players (like my alliance mates) having High Sec isk making alts? Why do you think we don't spend 100% of our pve time in null sec if it's all milk and honey.

It's because High Sec Incursions and missions for various npc corps (not just Thukker and SOE) is so good that even in situations where it pays a little less, it's worth it because it's VERY hard for people to disrupt what you are doing.

Take high sec incursions vs null sec pve isk making. You want to disrupt isk making in null. Use one alt in a cloaky ship (I don't let it stop me, I put on cloak and MWD+MJD and jump out of system to someplace else, or use one of my "screw your cyno" FoF + warpstabs ratting ships)

You want to disrupt an incursions fleet doing HQs? You gotta either Contest them (takes another 40 man fleet), gank them (need a bunch of dessies or BCs) or pop the mom (60+ member fleet).

it's just easier in high sec. Easier is fine. Easier + the same or just slightly less isk is a massive imblanace that goes counter to EVE's historic Risk vs Reward scheme. As i say, when I started playing, the only thing you could do combat PVE wise in high sec to approach the kind of isk you could make in null was exploit the hell out of that high sec lvl 5 bug....which i did btw...
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1652 - 2014-01-30 16:49:08 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Nobody answered my question in the other thread.

Is Thukker really pronounced the way I think it is???


Thukk yea it is.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1653 - 2014-01-30 17:21:45 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I did that 30 pages ago La Nariz. I posted data sources, maths breakdowns and end results.

Given lack of CCP data releases I did make some assumptions but I typically took the high side of High Sec income and the low side of Null Sec income in those assumptions and we still came out with Null Sec having earned more raw isk than high sec earned in both isk & LP, despite maybe 1/5th the people (again high balling in Nulls favour.)

And this didn't even touch on Loot, PI, Moon Goo & High End Minerals. Which obviously Null wins. Because those are area's everyone knows Null is Superior in. Only way to get officer drops in high is to gank over blinged mission & incursion ships. It was just looking at raw isk income then calculating LP income beside that using average LP value.

If you use current SOE LP value then high sec just beats Null Sec on total gross income. But when you consider the population difference, that still means that Null Sec earns more per capita.

So obviously something is going on income wise that doesn't match up with all the isk/hr figures & null sec woes people are claiming. Exactly what that is, insufficient data set to work out.

As for things like number of people a Null Sec system can support at once, you have my support on those issues. I'd love to see a single Null Sec system able to support 20/30/40 different people all at once. That makes it a lot more attractive for them to do it all in PvP ships even with slightly lower income, because it means when that roaming gang comes through, instead of docking up they can all warp together and have a good brawl, because there are enough people in the same spot to actually defend.


No you didn't you referenced things without links, made a huge amount of assumptions, and then stated everyone else was wrong without picking apart any pieces of their arguments. You also completely ignored any challenges to your arguments by hand-waiving it away as "well CCP hasn't given us any information on that." So try again, you have not been posting well reasoned arguments hence why I keep telling you to bring us data and back up your points.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1654 - 2014-01-30 17:24:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Nobody answered my question in the other thread.

Is Thukker really pronounced the way I think it is???


Thukk yea it is.

And there is my new favourite faction! xD

Where do I sign up? :D

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1655 - 2014-01-30 17:29:34 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Nobody answered my question in the other thread.

Is Thukker really pronounced the way I think it is???


Thukk yea it is.

And there is my new favourite faction! xD

Where do I sign up? :D


They have their own swath of null. Great Wildlands.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1656 - 2014-01-30 17:31:17 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Nobody answered my question in the other thread.

Is Thukker really pronounced the way I think it is???


Thukk yea it is.

And there is my new favourite faction! xD

Where do I sign up? :D


They have their own swath of null. Great Wildlands.
Hmpf. Boring.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1657 - 2014-01-30 17:31:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:


I have done sisters missions on a single account with decent social skills and never saw 150 million/hr sustained. Such numbers were nonsense when I did them (years ago), and even with the current LP conversion are still nonsense. Did I hit that rate on my best hours? Yes. Could it be sustained? No, not a remote chance in a frozen hell.

However, I do look forward to your results.


Bolded the only important part. Was the before or after the introduction of wormholes (which made the demand for SOE probing implants and gear go way up)? Or before CCPs exploration mechanic changes that made probing easier , or before CCP made probing a part of the tutorial (along with a free probing ship).

And since you say years ago, that means that you haven't missioned for SOE since CCP added 3 new ships (which again increase the value of SOE probing gear and implants because now people are spending LP on ships) right?

But who needs SOE when there are Thukkers in the form of Trust Partners in high sec?




Which is why those LP store need to be nerfed to hell. Nerf the high sec ones and make the null one more worthwhile to use if needed by skewing the LP requirement ratios. If the SoE and co LP ratios were along the line of Caldari Navy it would be better imo. Of course market fluctuation and game changes to balance could throw them out a bit from tiem to time but they should come back around what the regular navy LP are worth. You would do mission toward what LP reward you are looking for insetad of whatever the LP reward with the best ratio is.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1658 - 2014-01-30 17:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
EDIT : forum ate my post then double posted...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1659 - 2014-01-30 17:32:40 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Nobody answered my question in the other thread.

Is Thukker really pronounced the way I think it is???


Thukk yea it is.

And there is my new favourite faction! xD

Where do I sign up? :D


They have their own swath of null. Great Wildlands.
Hmpf. Boring.


Well, then do what the Mordu's guys did.

Make your own alliance in their homage.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1660 - 2014-01-30 18:33:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Cool, and when you're done with all that you can join Faction Warfare because that's the best place to see another (this time non-high sec) part of the massive combat PVE imblance. This is simply insane . And i mean really insane. you simply should not be able to do that with frigates, drakes, caracals, hell anything at all.

Still, I have a stack of 20 Caracals in Rens just for that lol. Just because something is madly imbalanced doesn't mean i'm not gonna get my piece of the pie.



The point of alll this can be summed up in the question I asked Infintiy Ziona to answer during his "nulls ec makes so much more" thread (a question he has thus far refused to answer).

Do you think we're crazy? Do you think we can't see our own wallets and do the math on what works best given the actual in-game situation?

How do you account for "professional" PVe players like me (how, weirdly enough, like EVE PVE just for itself) as well as PVP players (like my alliance mates) having High Sec isk making alts? Why do you think we don't spend 100% of our pve time in null sec if it's all milk and honey.

It's because High Sec Incursions and missions for various npc corps (not just Thukker and SOE) is so good that even in situations where it pays a little less, it's worth it because it's VERY hard for people to disrupt what you are doing.

Take high sec incursions vs null sec pve isk making. You want to disrupt isk making in null. Use one alt in a cloaky ship (I don't let it stop me, I put on cloak and MWD+MJD and jump out of system to someplace else, or use one of my "screw your cyno" FoF + warpstabs ratting ships)

You want to disrupt an incursions fleet doing HQs? You gotta either Contest them (takes another 40 man fleet), gank them (need a bunch of dessies or BCs) or pop the mom (60+ member fleet).

it's just easier in high sec. Easier is fine. Easier + the same or just slightly less isk is a massive imblanace that goes counter to EVE's historic Risk vs Reward scheme. As i say, when I started playing, the only thing you could do combat PVE wise in high sec to approach the kind of isk you could make in null was exploit the hell out of that high sec lvl 5 bug....which i did btw...


I think that first link is broken. And the second is a post from Sept 2012 - Is FW still paying out like that?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!