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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1621 - 2014-01-30 11:08:46 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Yet if the maths agreed with you, it would be praised as a perfect example & proof baltec. Go peddle your rubbish somewhere else and let the goons who actually accept logic take part.


So tell me, where is the logic in ignoring accurate data and instead trying to argue your point using data that has nothing at all to do with individual income?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1622 - 2014-01-30 11:18:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


baltec1 wrote:
For example the primary form of income in null are anoms, they will on average net you around 90 mil/hr in raw isk, less in poor trusec systems which make up the bulk of null.


360 / 90 = 4

So it's 4 anoms a day then?

And on top of that 360 million ISK/day, as of Tuesday, you could also get between 54,000 and 72,000 LP/day.

SoniClover wrote:
As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level


Source

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1623 - 2014-01-30 11:25:07 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


baltec1 wrote:
For example the primary form of income in null are anoms, they will on average net you around 90 mil/hr in raw isk, less in poor trusec systems which make up the bulk of null.


360 / 90 = 4

So it's 4 anoms a day then?

And on top of that 360 million ISK/day, as of Tuesday, you could also get between 54,000 and 72,000 LP/day.

SoniClover wrote:
As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level


Source


4 hours*

Not 4 anoms.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1624 - 2014-01-30 11:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


baltec1 wrote:
For example the primary form of income in null are anoms, they will on average net you around 90 mil/hr in raw isk, less in poor trusec systems which make up the bulk of null.


360 / 90 = 4

So it's 4 anoms a day then?

And on top of that 360 million ISK/day, as of Tuesday, you could also get between 54,000 and 72,000 LP/day.

SoniClover wrote:
As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level


Source


4 hours*

Not 4 anoms.


360 million ISK per day / 90 million ISK per anom = 4 anoms per day..

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1625 - 2014-01-30 11:32:19 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


360 million ISK per day / 90 million ISK per anom = 4 anoms per day..



You do not get 90 mil per anom.

You earn 90 mil per hour running anoms.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1626 - 2014-01-30 11:37:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


360 million ISK per day / 90 million ISK per anom = 4 anoms per day..



You do not get 90 mil per anom.

You earn 90 mil per hour running anoms.


Of course, you're right. My apologies.

So running anoms. 4 hrs a day gets you 22 billion ISK in 2 months.

And between 3.3 and 4.4 million Empire Navy LP with the new deployable.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1627 - 2014-01-30 11:49:54 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Of course, you're right. My apologies.

So running anoms. 4 hrs a day gets you 22 billion ISK in 2 months.

And between 3.3 and 4.4 million Empire Navy LP with the new deployable.


Only if you deploy an ESS. We haven't banned their use but at the same time people are not enthusiastic with plopping these things down given how easy it is to lose 15% of your income and the fact that you would have to do a lot more than 4 hours for it to earn back your invested isk in the deployable.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1628 - 2014-01-30 11:52:02 UTC
Pay no heed to the null dweebs.

They will say whatever it takes to keep the treasure trove that is 0.0 from being overrun by all the rest of EVE. They can throw away 70 Titans but they aren't pulling in a kings ransom every day.

Ohhhh- kay


Mr Epeen Cool
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1629 - 2014-01-30 12:05:04 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Pay no heed to the null dweebs.

They will say whatever it takes to keep the treasure trove that is 0.0 from being overrun by all the rest of EVE. They can throw away 70 Titans but they aren't pulling in a kings ransom every day.

Ohhhh- kay


Mr Epeen Cool


Actually, Mr. Epeen the argument that is being made is that we highsec bears make way too much ISK for little risk and as such it should be nerfed.

So we have Baltec claiming 90m per hour in Null Sec anoms.

This weekend I am going to go to Lannxsi as Jenn aSide has suggested and run L4 missions for 4 hours. If Jenn aSide would be kind enough to give me suggestions about which missions to decline and which ones to actually blitz so that I can maximize this amount I would be grateful. It will make for a more accurate comparison I think. I believe the current claim is that one can make 150-180m per hour.

I will not be looting or salvaging as I understand that those things are not where the money comes from.

I will spend the LP on Launchers and Probes and sell them in Rens.

If I am missing anything I am sure Jenn will let me know.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1630 - 2014-01-30 13:06:34 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This weekend I am going to go to Lannxsi as Jenn aSide has suggested and run L4 missions for 4 hours. If Jenn aSide would be kind enough to give me suggestions about which missions to decline and which ones to actually blitz so that I can maximize this amount I would be grateful. It will make for a more accurate comparison I think. I believe the current claim is that one can make 150-180m per hour.

Keep in mind that declining multiple missions at a time lowers standing, potentially (eventually?) locking you out from using these agents and thus, voiding the claim of 'sustainability'.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1631 - 2014-01-30 13:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Bear in mind that you may have to practice mission blitzes to get them right (see my damsel fail as an example), so you may fail a lot in your first 4 hours.

Cap booster, armor Sentry+5 gun Dominix times, @ 1000 lp conversion (for FIO) - all times are undock to dock (my agent usually gives me x mission in y place that doesn't vary very often). Further improvements available from pirate ships.

these will be over 100m/hr for sisters.

Matts for War - (2 jumps) - buy kernite in station, receive implant - rate 300m/hr
Ammar Smash supplier - 7 minutes - kill tower - effective rate 99.5m/hr
Ammar Smash supplier - 47 minutes - clear all and loot - used when out of rejects - effective rate 74m/hr
Dread pirate scarlet - 25 minutes (4 jumps), clear to scarlet and scarlet pocket, loot and leave. effective rate 93m/hr
Serp assault - 9 minutes - blitz gates are open - effective rate 79.2m/hr
Serp blockade - 23 mins - triple sebo domi full clear - effective rate 78m/hr
Serp/gurista wc - 19 mins with card - experimental kronos run - effective rate 61m/hr
Serp/gurista wc - 25 mins dominix clear first pocket, ignore guristas - effective rate 57m/hr
Ammar Surprise Surprise - 22 - clear and loot for tags - 59m effective
merc stop thief - 5 mins - prestashed reports, kill 2 bs - 56.9m effective
angel pirate invasion - 17 mins - full clear triple Omni - 57.3m effective
serp extrav - 26 mins - full clear - 52.9m
attack of the drones - 14 mins full clear (believed blitzable) - 61m/hr effective
damsel - 16 + 12 loot - badly failed kronos test run shot wrong tower + loot - 68m/effective (potential there!)

missions last recorded in the 40m - 50m range for FIO - Will probably be 80m/hrs for sisters, may reject some if on a good run.

zor right hand - 6mins - kill zor group and leave
angel unauthorized - run to ripped structure kill group and leave - note run made with navy mega
blood cargo delivery - frigate blitz - can probably stash stuff for this
silence informant - 22 mins (4 jumps) - not blitzable
angel smuggler intercept - 22 mins - fit failure (no prop mod - possibly better)
serp score - 18 mins - domi was 5 minutes faster than prebastion kronos maybe diff now
mordus headhunters - 28 mins (maybe potential in this one - it really wants the navy domi)
drones infiltrated - 13 mins
angel extrav - 39 mins, doesn't agree with the domi or I was interrupted, can't remember (was a zerker/bouncer loadout).


rejects

serp duo of death
serp spies
sansha rogue slave


Other missions likely to be ok, but not recorded

buzzkill - method - move to 60km, snipe.

Some one else can fill in other races missions, but the sisters agent I used was fairly "gallente" in mix.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1632 - 2014-01-30 13:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This weekend I am going to go to Lannxsi as Jenn aSide has suggested and run L4 missions for 4 hours. If Jenn aSide would be kind enough to give me suggestions about which missions to decline and which ones to actually blitz so that I can maximize this amount I would be grateful. It will make for a more accurate comparison I think. I believe the current claim is that one can make 150-180m per hour.

Keep in mind that declining multiple missions at a time lowers standing, potentially (eventually?) locking you out from using these agents and thus, voiding the claim of 'sustainability'.


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can I go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1633 - 2014-01-30 13:32:34 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1634 - 2014-01-30 13:34:05 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Bear in mind that you may have to practice mission blitzes to get them right (see my damsel fail as an example), so you may fail a lot in your first 4 hours.

Cap booster, armor Sentry+5 gun Dominix times, @ 1000 lp conversion (for FIO) - all times are undock to dock (my agent usually gives me x mission in y place that doesn't vary very often). Further improvements available from pirate ships.

these will be over 100m/hr for sisters.

Matts for War - (2 jumps) - buy kernite in station, receive implant - rate 300m/hr
Ammar Smash supplier - 7 minutes - kill tower - effective rate 99.5m/hr
Ammar Smash supplier - 47 minutes - clear all and loot - used when out of rejects - effective rate 74m/hr
Dread pirate scarlet - 25 minutes (4 jumps), clear to scarlet and scarlet pocket, loot and leave. effective rate 93m/hr
Serp assault - 9 minutes - blitz gates are open - effective rate 79.2m/hr
Serp blockade - 23 mins - triple sebo domi full clear - effective rate 78m/hr
Serp/gurista wc - 19 mins with card - experimental kronos run - effective rate 61m/hr
Serp/gurista wc - 25 mins dominix clear first pocket, ignore guristas - effective rate 57m/hr
Ammar Surprise Surprise - 22 - clear and loot for tags - 59m effective
merc stop thief - 5 mins - prestashed reports, kill 2 bs - 56.9m effective
angel pirate invasion - 17 mins - full clear triple Omni - 57.3m effective
serp extrav - 26 mins - full clear - 52.9m
attack of the drones - 14 mins full clear (believed blitzable) - 61m/hr effective
damsel - 16 + 12 loot - badly failed kronos test run shot wrong tower + loot - 68m/effective (potential there!)

missions last recorded in the 40m - 50m range for FIO - Will probably be 80m/hrs for sisters, may reject some if on a good run.

zor right hand - 6mins - kill zor group and leave
angel unauthorized - run to ripped structure kill group and leave - note run made with navy mega
blood cargo delivery - frigate blitz - can probably stash stuff for this
silence informant - 22 mins (4 jumps) - not blitzable
angel smuggler intercept - 22 mins - fit failure (no prop mod - possibly better)
serp score - 18 mins - domi was 5 minutes faster than prebastion kronos maybe diff now
mordus headhunters - 28 mins (maybe potential in this one - it really wants the navy domi)
drones infiltrated - 13 mins
angel extrav - 39 mins, doesn't agree with the domi or I was interrupted, can't remember (was a zerker/bouncer loadout).


rejects

serp duo of death
serp spies
sansha rogue slave


Other missions likely to be ok, but not recorded

buzzkill - method - move to 60km, snipe.

Some one else can fill in other races missions, but the sisters agent I used was fairly "gallente" in mix.


SOE is primarily Gallente - they have an 8.0 standing with Gallente. I ran SOE for standing because it does not tank Caldari standing (running SL missions for SOE can NEVER take your raw Caldari standing below -0.25 unless you are shooting at Caldari Faction) never for ISK or LP.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Notorious Fellon
#1635 - 2014-01-30 13:55:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.



Well what a coincidence. It may take *years* before you see the numbers they are claiming.

How convenient.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1636 - 2014-01-30 13:55:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.


I've run L4 missions for SOE, it's how I got my standing to 10.00. I did them with the agent in Gicodel that used to do security division missions. It has been a couple years at least but in that time I've been running L4s for various Caldari State corps (Caldari State Best State). So as far as getting them done - not worried. But I appreciate Tauranon giving me some insight on what to decline as I've always been in the habit of declining only the Faction specific missions to avoid tanking Faction standings (I don't need to get shot at by the Gallente Navy again).

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1637 - 2014-01-30 13:56:26 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.



Well what a coincidence. It may take *years* before you see the numbers they are claiming.

How convenient.


Not years. Please read things before you sperg out.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1638 - 2014-01-30 13:57:39 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.



Well what a coincidence. It may take *years* before you see the numbers they are claiming.

How convenient.


Let's just wait for the numbers. We can talk all day about ISK/hr provided perfect conditions but I think that unrealistic and absolutist. Let's table this kind of talk until after the numbers are provided.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1639 - 2014-01-30 14:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Mr Epeen wrote:
Pay no heed to the null dweebs.

They will say whatever it takes to keep the treasure trove that is 0.0 from being overrun by all the rest of EVE. They can throw away 70 Titans but they aren't pulling in a kings ransom every day.

Ohhhh- kay


Mr Epeen Cool



Pay no need to the highsec dweebs.

They will say whatever it takes to keep the treasure trove that is highsec from being brought down to the same level as the rest of EVE. They can throw away bling fit mission ships and freighters every day, but they claim not to have too much income.

Ohhhh- kay.

Look, I can do it too.

Notorious Fellon wrote:


Well what a coincidence. It may take *years* before you see the numbers they are claiming.

How convenient.


There is no point to what you just said.

You won't max isk/hr in any activity if you're doing it wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Notorious Fellon
#1640 - 2014-01-30 14:21:17 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can i go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


Like everything practice makes perfect. You should do fine with standings as you will make more than enough back to decline the few you dont want to run.

I would say until you get used to the missions and you have your tools in place you may see lower income than the people who have been doing them for years. But then, that goes for anything.



Well what a coincidence. It may take *years* before you see the numbers they are claiming.

How convenient.


Let's just wait for the numbers. We can talk all day about ISK/hr provided perfect conditions but I think that unrealistic and absolutist. Let's table this kind of talk until after the numbers are provided.



I have done sisters missions on a single account with decent social skills and never saw 150 million/hr sustained. Such numbers were nonsense when I did them (years ago), and even with the current LP conversion are still nonsense. Did I hit that rate on my best hours? Yes. Could it be sustained? No, not a remote chance in a frozen hell.

However, I do look forward to your results.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.