EVE General Discussion

Again with the ignorance.

One ship. Pick one of the marauders (Paladin in Apanake due to all the Blood/Sansha Missions you get, Golem or Varg in Lanngisi because of Angels etc) or a Mach or Nightmare. Hell you don't even have to go pirate/marauder, CNR and Fleet Phoon are more than capable. Tech1 BSs like the typhoon and raven properly fit is get you close to what the above ships can do

ONE ship (unlike the minimu 2 accounts you need to do what you did in your null guide....). Use http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage if you're not intimately familiar with missions. Blitz for LP (no amount of salvage makes up for losing time).

If in Osmon, just dock up and sell lp items to buy orders since you're in the same region as Jita. In Lanngisi take the time to go the 8 jumps to Rens because you get better prices than the much closer Hek. on and on.

In null sec you are a slave to a random num,ber generator and the activity of others. If you aren't stupid fit in high sec, very few will ever screw with you.

And again, this is with one account (Lanngisi and Apanake are 0.5 systems, missions like Blockade pay almost 10k lp, not that I screw with blockade much as it's a bit long), NO scanning, no random number generator dropping nothing but an OPE on you, protected by CONCORD.

And that's just the Sister's missions, I haven't touched on other corps and some insane LP to isk converstion rates. If you think any of this was new your wrong, it was worse in the past before a few overdue nerfs....

And it's exactly the same with your numbers. The only numbers we have than aren't anecdotes are CCP's gross income figures that you were so fast to dismiss as irrelevant because they don't match your beliefs

As for you Jenn, Not being a Goon/PL/N3 member, I don't have a massive blue area with a huge intel network to actually make full use of the space my alliance/coalition controls, so any tests I do in Null are naturally going to have worse results than the actual owners in Null, it's called a blatant experimental bias. And even if I did test it, unless the tests matched up with your claims you would simply dismiss them as abnormal, exceptionally lucky, unsustainable, just like you all have over the years every time this discussion comes up and anyone says anything about null having enough income.

The Gross figures come direct from CCP, and tell a different story to the sob story about Null you are trying to push.

Oh come on IZ. You yourself said you run lots of accounts. 500m-2bn is either a long play session, or a crapton of luck with both sigs and drops. The only other person I've ever heard claim this kind of income was running dual sins, and even he only claimed 200-400m per hour. You really do not need multiple accounts to blitz missions. At most you need a second alt to pull more missions, which requires a handful of sp in social skills and at most maybe 10-15 missions with shared standings to achieve. And of course, you can run vanguards and make that much in 4 hours on a single account (the 366m per day number), completely repeatable ad nauseum.

I run a Ishtar (infinity), a cheetah for scouting / probing and a have an alt in a Rohk for smartbombing xplorers in relic sites. I do run stealth bombers isboxed but they're not for exploration, mostly will have them sitting at a perch or 30km from a gate and launch bombs hoping someones stupid and decloaked before realising the bombs on on the way.

sometimes I'll sit them in a separate system to scout sigs but its not really necessary to do that since my cheetah can scan an entire constellation fairly quickly.

Remember the only reason I have those stealth bomber alts is because I plexed them with the isk I made running sigs with infinity alone.

You keep mentioning these things CCP has published that support you but, you don't justify any interpretation of it you plop down a figure and say "lol I'm right!" You reference something without linking it and assert it proves your point or deliberately interpret something as something it is not.

All you need is raw data and sound methods to convince us what you say is true. Its not that hard to do either, I know I've told Infinity Ziona how to do it before yet she continues to peddle crap. Are you going to be the one highsec pubbie that chooses not to peddle crap and actually gathers some data?

If officer items drop all the time then why are there so few?

For example, there are only 4 Ahremen's Modified Cap Rechargers up for sale, 8 Kaikka's Modified Cloaking Devices, 7 Tuvan's Modified Sensor Boosters.

So yea, your friends are telling you lies, officer spawns are very very rare and it is impossible to use them as a source of isk.

Except it's not useless, because tied together with the other information from CCP which I linked in that thread, we can do a breakdown by area on the largest faucet of bounties, and if we use your translation of 'ships' that actually means Null earns even more isk than I calculated since Null rats are worth MORE than high sec Rats. So 72% of all bounties in Null is the Low Ball figure.
And LP can be calculated using derived figures, which I did also.

All perfectly good maths, though I can understand if it is over some peoples heads as it's University level concepts of accurate assumptions and derived formula's, though the maths itself isn't that complex.

Just because it doesn't match your view of the world doesn't make it useless, much as you love to dismiss anything that doesn't side with you.

Other than the fact that your data set is anecdotal, based on best case scenario's in high, ignores or devalues loot in Null, builds in interruptions by reds in null to your base data, and that LP can & was calculated and still didn't match Null pure Isk income on average values of LP.

If you assume that all LP that was earned on missions was worth SOE levels then High has a slightly higher gross income than Null.

Of course, since there is about a 4 to 1 pop ratio, I can't find the figures atm, but no-one has seemed to argue that something like 80% of people live in high, if the average player income was the same in both Null & High, then High's gross income would be four times higher. When a matching Gross actually means the average monthly income of a Null player (Who earns his money through pure ratting or anoms, and we are ignoring all loot including all that faction loot like Pith A etc) is four times the average monthly income of a High Sec Mission Runner/Incursion Runner/Sig hunter. (Again ignoring loot which we all know is fairly insignificant in high compared to Null).

So yea... other than that 'small' flaw in your data Baltec, that totally destroys your entire argument.

I didn't do my maths deliberately trying to show high sec earned less, I did it to see how it came out. If it came out that High Sec was earning vast amounts more, I'd have said so, with the maths, and would be siding with you on the average income topic. And you would be praising my name and citing my maths to anyone who argued as a perfect example of proof. Because you just want people to agree with you. It's sad, really is sad that you are that desperate that anything that disagrees gets rubbished on. Some of the others at least look at the arguments and consider their aspects.

Those mission guides are based on perfect best case scenario's as well as perfect mission chaining of ideal missions. And not having to travel several jumps for the mission either. The incursions are again based on ideal cases.

There isn't enough isk earned in ALL OF EVE for your claimed sustainable incursion income even if just a single HQ fleet was the only one running. Let alone the five HQ communities I am aware of that all compete. Plus all the VG communities.

Individual income is only relevant in how it ties into the gross income. If the average null character is earning four times as much as the average high sec character, this says despite your claimed figures, EVE does not work the way you think. And that is what the Gross income figures say.

Yet if the maths agreed with you, it would be praised as a perfect example & proof baltec. Go peddle your rubbish somewhere else and let the goons who actually accept logic take part.