EVE General Discussion

Still trying to peddle the false wares I see La Nariz. High Sec does not earn more income than Null. I solidly debunked that. Regardless of the isk/hr you try to pretend exists in High Sec (Which doesn't exist sustainably), regardless of the fewer people in Null, Null earns more isk even when we ignore all the moon goo, high end minerals & deadspace & officer loot.
Meaning per character, Null is earning magnitudes more than high sec. It's that simple.

The imbalance only exists in your head.
And your 'suggestions' are all ways for the Goons to end up utterly controlling everything in high sec also. Not to breed more content.

Yeah, bullshit, but.whatever makes you.feel better

... somebody pass the pancake syrup, please...

Exactly. Look at all the successful games that followed that model.

Oh wait... there aren't any.




If I could know what was in a games best interest beforehand every time I would literally be a ******* billionaire. And you don't know what CCP is going to do beyond what they tell you for the record, and even that isn't highly accurate traditionally .

Which space is getting income nerfed? Right ...so the company with access to the numbers and the data and the foresight has determined null sec is in need of a income adjustment.

Seems to me you have your answer. The information and comparison you and others hi-sec haters provide does not seem to mesh with what CCP seems to have.

I will always take data and info from CCP with much greater merit than anything you will pull out of your anal orifice.

Don't know where you guys find these ragers. I don't think anyone I've ever suicided or killed has raged, they either say nothing or "gf" in local. I like to think that the quiet ones are actually angry but I'm not mad when I lose my ships so I should assume they aren't either.

WTB tears.

To restate.

We have the breakdown of isk faucets from CCP. They released this data at Fanfest. As far as I am aware we haven't received any new release of this data so till next fanfest we won't get updated figures.
This data can be averaged across all 12 months released, though it is actually pretty steady for the most part, but there are a couple of potential trends that another 12 months would make clearer.
We also know from CCP's discussion of the ESS in the German forums that Null Sec accounts for 72% of the bounties/NPC kills in all of EVE. There is dispute over the translation from the people that have translated it, but if it is ship kills since Null Rats on average are more valuable than High Sec Rats then it would be more than 72% of the bounties. Especially if NPC kills also included WH rats & Incursion kills which drop no actual bounty. So we can safely use the 72% of all bounties as a lowest possible figure for Null Sec isk.

So, we can then look at the 72% of bounties and see that it accounts for 42% of the total isk faucets in all of EVE. Insurance, and a few other factors will also add slightly to this. So once these factors are taken into account we can see that Null accounts for somewhere between 42% & approx 50% of all isk faucets in EVE.
WH space accounts for a very clear 20% extra from NPC buy orders.
Leaving High & Low sec Combined somewhere between 30-35%, depending exactly on what percentage of insurance is earned in Null.

So, we have a clear indication that more raw isk is earned in null.

We can then also calculate approximate LP values for High Sec missions & for all incursions.
Incursions are easy to do, and it works out that LP for incursions adds about 25% extra value.
It also works out that if we assume all Incursion sites are HQ sites (Most valuable), that there are 4 HQ sites done per hour on average. This is across every single incursion community. Which clearly shows that the isk/hr people are claiming is sustainable for incursions isn't. Since even if a single fleet of 40 was the only fleet running incursions anywhere in EVE, they still wouldn't make 200 mil/hr. When there are multiple fleets that run incursions, I know of five different HQ communities off the top of my head, and a number more VG communities. Meaning that income is getting split between all of them.

Missions are a bit trickier, but the maths on them can also be done using typical mission rewards and assuming a set percentage of the combined reward/insurance/other category belongs to missions. Refer earlier in the thread for all the maths.

So, taking the above three factors you can then do a comparative check, and while I did make assumptions in the maths because CCP didn't release the full break down, these assumptions were controllable, and I attempted to take the sensible high end of High Sec income (Such as all incursions were high sec, ignoring the odd low/null ones that do get done) while leaning towards the lower assumption of only 72% of bounties, rather than ship kills for Null.

And this came out with Null Sec earning more in pure isk than High sec was earning in both isk & LP combined.
Given High Sec has a much larger population, this obviously means that per capita, null is vastly ahead in earnings, since if per capita you earned the same, High Sec would have a much larger gross figure.

Obviously I didn't get into the industrial side, which even I'm suggesting Null should get certain limited buffs on such as better refining without needing to blow advanced upgrades on it, but I also didn't get into the moon goo/PI/loot/high end ores. Which Null obviously wins in hands down compared to High.
So, it's probably not a 100% perfect analysis, but it certainly is good enough to say that Null vs High income is not in the state some people are claiming.

Additionally Null has just received a change to their income, that potentially could increase peoples earnings by up to 25%, and at most is a 5% drop from current. So until we see how that plays out in the actual Meta game, we won't know how much Null Income is really buffed by. My bet is overall somewhere between 10-15% actual increase, since any isk stolen is also likely to be income for someone in null, just income while doing PvP rather than PvE.

So, no data suggests a needed nerf to high sec PvE at present, and no data suggests high sec industry needs a direct nerf, just that Null needs some buffs, and that there is an issue between POS manufacturing in any sec space & Outpost/Station manufacturing costs (in any space)

If by love you mean hate, pick on the smallest possible part and argue over it trying to bury the sensible analysis in pages of drivel, probably right.

CCP do have all the figures also I agree, but sometimes players need to see the figures themselves to understand things.

Considering CCP has better data than we do, what do those complaining about this think was CCP's goal? To make null poorer? To 'force' null players to move at least part time into highsec?

What if CCP's goal was to introduce a mechanic to encourage small gang warfare in null? What if CCP's goal was to encourage Corps and Alliances to work together more effectively to fly safe?

Why do null players seem to completely ignore all the other powerful forms of income in Null other than missions/anoms? Is it because the Alliance leaderships controls and keeps most of that for themselves?

Personally, I am going with the "trying to encourage players to work together more closely" approach. That doesn't mean there aren't area's CCP should address in Null asap. The refining issue, spreading out deadspaces/complexes and their value/frequency, region connectors, logging out in a system, etc.

Assuming CCP is simply punishing null players with an income nerf, period, seems a little silly.

Lol

Every conclusion in that block of crap is flat wrong.

Starting with basing by bounties, bounties ARE NOT how you push in high sec you dolt.