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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1221 - 2014-01-22 20:42:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul.

baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this.


They couldn't run them like in null sov because they have no access to sov upgrades. It is impossible to do what we were doing outside of sov space.

The nerf was only aimed at sov space.

Yet it still affected them. It may have affected your gameplay more significantly. But it still is a nerf to everyone running these sites.

Or, would you say that the nerf to siege missiles a few years ago was a nerf to mission runners because it most significantly affected mission runners?

You can't have it both ways :).

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1222 - 2014-01-22 20:44:00 UTC
is Not Getting It some kind of new sport
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1223 - 2014-01-22 20:44:31 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul.

baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this.


They couldn't run them like in null sov because they have no access to sov upgrades. It is impossible to do what we were doing outside of sov space.

The nerf was only aimed at sov space.

Yet it still affected them. It may have affected your gameplay more significantly. But it still is a nerf to everyone running these sites.

Or, would you say that the nerf to siege missiles a few years ago was a nerf to mission runners because it most significantly affected mission runners?

You can't have it both ways :).


The doublethink here is startling. Even for me, and I used to work at an insurance company.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1224 - 2014-01-22 20:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
baltec1 wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

The tech nerf was actually a fix. Tech is not even an R64! Come on, you know this :).


Tech was by far the best moon to own for years. We said it was a bad change when they nerfed the old moneypot that BoB owned in fortress delve.

You're changing the subject. You claimed the tech nerf was a nerf to null. Is this still your position?

And let's put aside for a minute that tech is not R64 and should have never been treated as such. And also, that tech is available in low sec as well. By extension and your own logic, are you saying that the "buff" to dyspro was a buff to null exclusively? Like I said, your standard should be applicable on both directions.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1225 - 2014-01-22 20:50:23 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

Yet it still affected them. It may have affected your gameplay more significantly. But it still is a nerf to everyone running these sites.

Or, would you say that the nerf to siege missiles a few years ago was a nerf to mission runners because it most significantly affected mission runners?

You can't have it both ways :).


You ignoring facts does not change them.

This was a nerf aimed directly at null sov space. The forsaken hubs outside of null sov could not be run in the same way and was not a nerf in those areas of space because the ships being used will easily take care of frigates.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1226 - 2014-01-22 20:51:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tell me why you would take the greater risks in null sov space to earn less than in high sec with full concord protection?


To have fun. Understand sir that ISK/hr is not how I measure success.


So nerfing high sec income wont be an issue for you then.



Not... even... a... little... bit...

But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1227 - 2014-01-22 20:53:20 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:

The tech nerf was actually a fix. Tech is not even an R64! Come on, you know this :).


Tech was by far the best moon to own for years. We said it was a bad change when they nerfed the old moneypot that BoB owned in fortress delve.

You're changing the subject. You claimed the tech nerf was a nerf to null. Is this still your position?


I said we pushed to nerf tech despite the fact that it would greatly harm our coalition because it was imbalanced.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1228 - 2014-01-22 20:57:22 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Not... even... a... little... bit...

But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.


No it wont. But it will make it more viable.

The goal isnt to make more isk, it to make null desirable to go to.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#1229 - 2014-01-22 21:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Not... even... a... little... bit...

But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.


No it wont. But it will make it more viable.

The goal isnt to make more isk, it to make null desirable to go to.


Why would anyone go to nullsec if there are poor isk opportunities?. Remove all hisec PvE and players will go to jita to trade....or maybe they will start to gank freighters, or do industry....or whatever... But they will certainly wont go to null if there are poor isk opportunities...

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1230 - 2014-01-22 21:04:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Not... even... a... little... bit...

But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.


No it wont. But it will make it more viable.

The goal isnt to make more isk, it to make null desirable to go to.


And explain to me again the logic of how making something else suck more makes another place suck less.

Baltec's Theory of Relativity.

Null sec must suck less than High Sec - for everything.

Anything less than that still leaves Null wanting.

You do know that people in Null are not the only people playing this game yea?

I'm not sayin' anything, I'm just sayin'. You know what I'm sayin'?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1231 - 2014-01-22 21:08:42 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Not... even... a... little... bit...

But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.


No it wont. But it will make it more viable.

The goal isnt to make more isk, it to make null desirable to go to.


And explain to me again the logic of how making something else suck more makes another place suck less.

Baltec's Theory of Relativity.

Null sec must suck less than High Sec - for everything.

Anything less than that still leaves Null wanting.

You do know that people in Null are not the only people playing this game yea?

I'm not sayin' anything, I'm just sayin'. You know what I'm sayin'?


You're not even trying to argue the point anymore.

You can't buff null, because inflation.

The next steps are obvious. It just hasn't been taken yet because CCP fears the outcry that any real nerf to highsec would cause.

And that's it. One group holding the gameplay of another group hostage by threatening to withdraw their subs if any action is taken against them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1232 - 2014-01-22 21:09:08 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


And explain to me again the logic of how making something else suck more makes another place suck less.

Baltec's Theory of Relativity.

Null sec must suck less than High Sec - for everything.

Anything less than that still leaves Null wanting.

You do know that people in Null are not the only people playing this game yea?

I'm not sayin' anything, I'm just sayin'. You know what I'm sayin'?


Power creep.

CCP have started to balance things smartly. Gone are the days where they would try to buff their way out of an imbalance.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1233 - 2014-01-22 21:11:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You can't buff null, because inflation.

You can, if you can find a way to increase personal income without increasing the isk faucet.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
TharOkha
0asis Group
#1234 - 2014-01-22 21:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You can't buff null, because inflation.

You can, if you can find a way to increase personal income without increasing the isk faucet.


This is something i agree with...

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1235 - 2014-01-22 21:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
TharOkha wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You can't buff null, because inflation.

You can, if you can find a way to increase personal income without increasing the isk faucet.


This is something that i agree with...

The question is how.
Loot drops wouldn't work, as the more people that get them the less valuable they'd be on the market.
LP wouldn't work, as that would end up being a nerf to highsec and you run into the same problem as above (LP devaluation).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1236 - 2014-01-22 21:19:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You can't buff null, because inflation.

You can, if you can find a way to increase personal income without increasing the isk faucet.


True, but LP is enough of a crutch in that regard already.

Personally I like how they did it with wormholes, where the income is generated through the generation of useful production materials.

That does leave their income open to market manipulation, but then whose isn't?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1237 - 2014-01-22 21:20:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You can't buff null, because inflation.

You can, if you can find a way to increase personal income without increasing the isk faucet.


True, but LP is enough of a crutch in that regard already.

Personally I like how they did it with wormholes, where the income is generated through the generation of useful production materials.

That does leave their income open to market manipulation, but then whose isn't?

A lot of wormhole income is generated through sale of blue loot to NPC sell orders. In other words, an isk faucet.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1238 - 2014-01-22 21:20:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You're not even trying to argue the point anymore.

You can't buff null, because inflation.

The next steps are obvious. It just hasn't been taken yet because CCP fears the outcry that any real nerf to highsec would cause.

And that's it. One group holding the gameplay of another group hostage by threatening to withdraw their subs if any action is taken against them.


The next step is the ESS. Are you certain this is moving in the right direction?

It seems that if CCP truly recognized an imbalance wouldn't they give you a little buff and not this spawn of ****.

And as far as all the null alliance alts coming to high sec (the same kind of hyberbole as miners and highsec bears threatening to quit if they get nerfed and let's face it - it is all empty threats on both sides of this):

Will they gank miners? - we have people that do that already.

Will they bait mission runners and shoot at MTU's waiting for drones to aggress? - we have people that do that already.

Will they grief-dec Indy corps? - we have people that do that already.

Will they blow the crap out of freighters on the Jita undock? - we have people that do that already.

So if you all do come up - please do something new and original. We already have people doing all of this other crap. P

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1239 - 2014-01-22 21:25:05 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Will they gank miners? - we have people that do that already.

Will they bait mission runners and shoot at MTU's waiting for drones to aggress? - we have people that do that already.

Will they grief-dec Indy corps? - we have people that do that already.

Will they blow the crap out of freighters on the Jita undock? - we have people that do that already.

So if you all do come up - please do something new and original. We already have people doing all of this other crap. P


We are already the biggest players in all of these activities.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1240 - 2014-01-22 21:26:16 UTC
Quote:
The next step is the ESS. Are you certain this is moving in the right direction?


The ESS as it currently stands (the second incarnation anyway) is a fairly hefty nerf to highsec.

Quote:
And as far as all the null alliance alts coming to high sec (the same kind of hyberbole as miners and highsec bears threatening to quit if they get nerfed and let's face it - it is all empty threats on both sides of this):

Will they gank miners? - we have people that do that already.

Will they bait mission runners and shoot at MTU's waiting for drones to aggress? - we have people that do that already.

Will they grief-dec Indy corps? - we have people that do that already.

Will they blow the crap out of freighters on the Jita undock? - we have people that do that already.

So if you all do come up - please do something new and original. We already have people doing all of this other crap.


So, you're saying that a few thousand more people running around ganking miners, wardeccing indy corps, and blasting freighters... wouldn't be a big issue?

Oh, how I wish.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.