EVE General Discussion

Do you have a link to these records? I would like to look them over.

Considering which postion you have taken, I find this hilariously ironic.

You mean the position which Null Sec demonstrably earns more income than high sec as PROVED by CCP's figures?
You can go on about individual isk/hr all you want, yet at the end of the day, Null earns more as an entity despite smaller population.

The ceiling for Sisters LP is super high because it's exploration equipment in a game that has been expanding exploration for the last several years. Wormholes blew sisters LP WAY up there and the new ships just added to that.

But SOE isn't the only high LP value corp out there, SOe and Thukker(trust partners) are the best but not the only.

Another 4-5000 mission runners (because that's about all null sec can manage generating only about 6-700 bil per day) isn't going to change very much, Lanngisi services at least a couple thousand mission runners per day by itself.



SOE (among others) LP has maintained a value above 2000 isk/Lp for more than 5 years and the latest additions of the SOE ships made that LP MORE valuable despite Way more people doing these missions. The new Battleship is going to increase it's value even more. Damn right it's sustainable lol.



Only if you don't understand the realities of the situation, which you do not. You do not calculate losses/overhead, effort, time constraints (people make isk in null for various reasons, sure if we all had all night to explore like Infinity Ziona we too could depend on the random number generator that dominates the high end rewards of null sec) and other aspects.

Again, do you think thousands of us who make our isk outside of null to fund our activities are all crazy or something, or do you think that your analysis is missing some very key elements?

What figures?

The one that shows total bounties with no info on where those bounties came from or the one that shows the number of NPC ships killed but no info on how much they were worth?

"As an entitiy" Damn, i better get home so I can get my Entity check in the mail lol.

That's like saying the homeless guy living in the street is doing really well because America has a 17 trillion dollar economy lol.

ROFL.

Personally, my goal is to be able to get BACK to my precious null sec preserve. I run incursions and sister's missions to make the isk I blow doing other things, making that same isk in null would require more time effort and risk and detract from doing the fun things.

Time. Effort. Risk. Overhead costs. These things matter. you don't get that.





You're hopeless. You're not even trying to understand what's being said to you.

What i argue is that combat PVE in high sec (incursions, missions for certain crops) is way too good compared to comparable activities in null sec. And they are. YOU can test if for yourself instead if misinterpreting abstract incomplete date. This is what thousands of us are doing those things rather than spending more time in null.

i've never once asked for more rewards for what i do (my wallet is fine), i'm pointing out an imbalance that distorts the 'eco-system' of the game, because having people in null doing things (as was the case before the 1st systems upgrade nerf) made for a better game for all than having signifigant portions of this games 90k Sov alliance members running SOe missions in osmon or chasing sansha across high sec.

it isn't about moving high sec people to null or whatever conspiracy theory you people hold, it's about unchaining those of us who'd rather put high sec in our rear view from high sec in the 1st place.

Based on this and the other posts you wrote after, you clearly do not understand basic economic principles. It costs more than the junk left in your pocket at the end of the day to manufacture in Eve. The game devs have chosen to weight most of the costs in raw materials and licensing (blueprints), but there are other non ISK-based costs as well.

Manufacturing in high sec HAS to be easy and effective because the vast majority of items used in-game are player manufactured. If there isn't a stable and efficient way to manufacture, the entire economy will collapse. Manufacturing in High Sec is the "low risk and low reward" version of the activity.

in Null Sec, the availability of restricted resources (copy/research slots, raw materials, fuel, etc) are more plentiful and "cheaper". There are logistics issues to moving materials around which correlate to one part of Null Sec risk. In the real world, manufacturing has shifted from Europe and the United States to Asia (away from the highest concentration of consumer demand). This is because, if the local political situation is reasonably stable (ie: not run by warlords and pirates), it's cheaper and more efficient to manufacture things on a global scale in areas with a low cost of living and move them a great distance to the areas of greatest demand, rather than manufacture in small local industrial zones where the cost of living is very high.

However, in order to support that economic model (which again, is a GLOBAL model, not a model for one single product or industrialist), the local political structure in the remote, low-cost areas cannot be unstable. The territories CANNOT be controlled by warlords and pirates. If the territories are controlled by warlords and pirates, it's too expensive to manufacture there on anything but a single-group/micro-economy scale.

In Eve, Null is run by Somali Pirates. Don't like that analogy? How about Congolese warlords? Want another one? The gangs of Papua New Guinea. Null's not just "less than perfectly safe"...the entire zone is politically unstable. People are shot on sight for not being the right color or member of the "right group". That "right group" often includes "not being an industrialist".

Here is the part where people who understand economics also understand that High Sec is low risk and low reward. Manufacturing in high sec costs more than manufacturing in Null, when you factor in the costs of raw materials and other restricted resources.

Manufacturing in Null is cheaper, but the burden of risk is on the Null residents. It's cheaper to manufacture in Null, but you have to dodge the angry "shoot on sight" pirate/warlord/gang residents, as well as the day-trippers slumming and looking for a fight, to collect your resources and bring your cheap goods to market. IF you succeed, you're rewarded with a higher percentage of profit than an entirely High Sec-based industrialist. IF you fail, well, that's the "risk'.

"Risk vs Reward" does not mean "more reward across the board for all residents in Null for every facet of Eve activity because Null is inherently risky". It means that because you live in Null it's HARDER (and riskier) to do "stuff". But, if you accomplish your "stuff"...then you're rewarded with more ISK (or the same numeric ISK value but a higher percentage of profit) than people in High Sec.

Solutions: Petition the Devs for a quick and efficient way to mine in Null. Maybe something like a PI extractor that spits out minerals. Make it easier to guard than a whole defensive fleet guarding a whole mining fleet.

Petition the Devs for something like Cyno transport, but that lets Null residents carry goods to High Sec market and dodge the other Null residents. Be prepared for this new shiny toy to be blown up by CONCORD if you use it to transport gankers into High Sec.

tl; dr: Manufacturing in High Sec is already low risk and low reward. The solution to creating a null industrial base is to ask for ways to reduce the manufacturing risk in Null Sec, not demand that High Sec industry be gutted.

Bullshit.
Plain and simple, bullshit.