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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#701 - 2014-01-14 12:35:13 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Confirmed; you can build an Archon with a production line and some minerals

Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Confirmed you didn't bother reading the discussion. Where we are specifically NOT DISCUSSING CAPS.
Since Caps can't be built in high sec anyway. So aren't part of any 'high sec vs null sec' discussion to begin with.
We are discussing sub caps & modules here.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#702 - 2014-01-14 12:39:25 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Confirmed; you can build an Archon with a production line and some minerals

Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Confirmed you didn't bother reading the discussion. Where we are specifically NOT DISCUSSING CAPS.
Since Caps can't be built in high sec anyway. So aren't part of any 'high sec vs null sec' discussion to begin with.
We are discussing sub caps & modules here.


I could write your responses. Seriously, its like you dont even try.

Fine, build an Orca

Build POS

Do some Research

Please tell me so much more about how much easier it is to do ANYTHING in Null than in Highsec

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#703 - 2014-01-14 12:52:19 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general.


pfffffffhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

Lol
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#704 - 2014-01-14 13:06:27 UTC
I am still reading through the last few pages, but I just wanted to comment that the statement a couple pages back that you should slowboat jump freighters is in the top 5 stupidest things I have ever heard on this forum.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#705 - 2014-01-14 13:14:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I am still reading through the last few pages, but I just wanted to comment that the statement a couple pages back that you should slowboat jump freighters is in the top 5 stupidest things I have ever heard on this forum.


Considering how many stupid things are said on this forum, that is saying a lot. P

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#706 - 2014-01-14 13:14:57 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


I'd imagine it would be even cheaper to import human capital. Import miners and industrialists to nullsec. Show them the wonders of the untamed wilds of New Eden. Care for them as you would any investment. Pay them an honest wage. And stop shooting at them.

The reason this would be difficult is that you and others in Null have spent the past 5 years or more being shitboxes to these people.

You're asking for CCP to step in and modify game mechanics because you simply can't be bothered to be ******* nice to people.

Emergent gameplay does not always have to involve asshattery. It can also involve actually building an Empire and not something that resembles Somalia.

This. Jeebus, this! If CCP could do anything to make Null more attractive, it would put in mechanisms to punish asshat's, even in Null. To me, all the (interesting) talk about outposts, profit margins, techniques and so on are vastly over-shadowed by the plain and simple fact that there are too many freaking jerks in the game. People who find it 'fun' to !!HTFU!! and stomp all over what someone else is doing to have fun. In a GAME.

I am itching to see null. Never even been close to it before. It's a part of the game that is walled off to me due to the fact that I am unwilling to allow other gamers to ruin my fun. What *I* consider fun, not what *they* think I should think is fun.

The benefits of having 'carebears' living in null, protected by Alliance macho men, producing things that the Alliance currently has to import from highsec seems pretty clear to me. It would be cheaper to make, even with the refining % being less, than to import.

Yes, it would be hard. Yes, it would require team work, strategy, tactics, and a firm hand in control of the protection effort. There isn't any Alliance, or even part of an Alliance who is capable and willing? Talk about PGC!! Seriously, I can just imagine the crazy fun it could be to be part of a Nullsec versiod of Concord, except you get to shoot first and ask questions later!

I said it before and I will repeat here: I would be willing to move out there if I thought there was a genuine willingness to seed a new trade hub in Nullsec. I would be a part of both sides too on two different toons: the mining part and the security.
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#707 - 2014-01-14 13:26:56 UTC
One thing I've seen too is the assumption that miners in null will spend more time in stations than mining since they'd have to bail when a red pop's into local. Umm.... maybe we haven't highlighted enough the part where the Alliance is guarding the industrialist effort? That Roq fleet isn't solo out there. They'd be guarded by some soft of defense force, either immediately in the area, or on a gate close by.

This is the part where the Alliance would have to strive to be better than your standard blop fleet. Tactics, strategy, leadership at all levels, etc. Even still there would certainly be mining losses. But all of this would be a grand effort at PGC that has never before been seen in Eve (as best as I know having scanned the intertubes). There might have been efforts to make this happen, but nothing at the level that's being talked about here. This is the kind of thing that immortalizes character names.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#708 - 2014-01-14 13:31:15 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

This. Jeebus, this! If CCP could do anything to make Null more attractive, it would put in mechanisms to punish asshat's, even in Null. To me, all the (interesting) talk about outposts, profit margins, techniques and so on are vastly over-shadowed by the plain and simple fact that there are too many freaking jerks in the game. People who find it 'fun' to !!HTFU!! and stomp all over what someone else is doing to have fun. In a GAME.


This is your problem, since you don't seem to accept what kind of game EVE is. Where i'm from, 'games' are played aggressively and competitively, whether it's the Friday night high school football game or the back yard barbeque Dominoes showdown between me and my cousins lol.

EVE is such a competitive game. It was made with pvp interactions in mind. Your choice to play a game like this when you obviously believe that the people who are playing the game as designed are being 'jerks' demonstrates how mentally unsuited you are to the game.

I honestly marvel at people like you (and there are a lot). I get that different people like different things, but why people would choose to be a misfit in any situation they pay for (and you attitudes about the game and it's players common gameplay make you a misfit) is just so amazing.

Quote:

I am itching to see null. Never even been close to it before. It's a part of the game that is walled off to me due to the fact that I am unwilling to allow other gamers to ruin my fun. What *I* consider fun, not what *they* think I should think is fun.


The benefits of having 'carebears' living in null, protected by Alliance macho men, producing things that the Alliance currently has to import from highsec seems pretty clear to me. It would be cheaper to make, even with the refining % being less, than to import.

Yes, it would be hard. Yes, it would require team work, strategy, tactics, and a firm hand in control of the protection effort. There isn't any Alliance, or even part of an Alliance who is capable and willing? Talk about PGC!! Seriously, I can just imagine the crazy fun it could be to be part of a Nullsec versiod of Concord, except you get to shoot first and ask questions later!

I said it before and I will repeat here: I would be willing to move out there if I thought there was a genuine willingness to seed a new trade hub in Nullsec. I would be a part of both sides too on two different toons: the mining part and the security.[/quote]


Null sec isn't the magically walled off far away land. And dude with a frigate and a cloak can go there. I've been playing in null since 2008 and I've seen post after post from people like you who seem to be way WAY over thinking things.

Go to null if you want to. Kills stuff (people, npcs, hell rocks if yo want to), be prepared to see you ship blown up, go get another, make friends (or enemies) and do stuff. It's not that hard at all.

Truth is you seem more like a themepark type play who needs the path forward laid out and highlighted for you (and protected from the 'jerks'). There is nothing wrong with that....until you find yourself playing a sandbox game where you have to interact with other people....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#709 - 2014-01-14 13:32:03 UTC
Quote:
Umm.... maybe we haven't highlighted enough the part where the Alliance is guarding the industrialist effort?


Do you know what someone guarding their sorry asses isn't doing?

Making money on his own.

Your income as a miner would need to be equal to or higher than DOUBLE the income a line member could make on his own.

It never will be.

This thread has devolved into people with no practical experience on the subject spouting theories like they were facts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#710 - 2014-01-14 13:37:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

This. Jeebus, this! If CCP could do anything to make Null more attractive, it would put in mechanisms to punish asshat's, even in Null. To me, all the (interesting) talk about outposts, profit margins, techniques and so on are vastly over-shadowed by the plain and simple fact that there are too many freaking jerks in the game. People who find it 'fun' to !!HTFU!! and stomp all over what someone else is doing to have fun. In a GAME.


This is your problem, since you don't seem to accept what kind of game EVE is. Where i'm from, 'games' are played aggressively and competitively, whether it's the Friday night high school football game or the back yard barbeque Dominoes showdown between me and my cousins lol.

EVE is such a competitive game. It was made with pvp interactions in mind. Your choice to play a game like this when you obviously believe that the people who are playing the game as designed are being 'jerks' demonstrates how mentally unsuited you are to the game.

I honestly marvel at people like you (and there are a lot). I get that different people like different things, but why people would choose to be a misfit in any situation they pay for (and you attitudes about the game and it's players common gameplay make you a misfit) is just so amazing.


I agree Jenn. But I also recognize the difference between a competitive game and:

baltec1 wrote:
There is no place for these people out in null right now so they are useless to us. When they become useful to us then we will take them in.


and

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
but none of them have the sandbox, sci-fi, single shard atmosphere Eve has.

So you're saying this is the aspect you like about EVE, yet it's the aspect you're asking them to remove.
Not that we didn't know this before, but it bears repeating: you're a moron.



And in the spirit of that competition, what people are saying is "we can't win". "It is impossible to win". "So CCP needs to take their stuff away".

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#711 - 2014-01-14 13:39:22 UTC
Quote:
And in the spirit of that competition, what people are saying is "we can't win". "It is impossible to win". "So CCP needs to take their stuff away".


What they're asking for is to not have the entirety of the production in the game dictated by highsec by virtue of NPC slots being superior to player owned ones.

That is not unreasonable.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kira Enomoto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#712 - 2014-01-14 13:42:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And in the spirit of that competition, what people are saying is "we can't win". "It is impossible to win". "So CCP needs to take their stuff away".


What they're asking for is to not have the entirety of the production in the game dictated by highsec by virtue of NPC slots being superior to player owned ones.

That is not unreasonable.


Have you thought about why they are supierior?..... Roll
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#713 - 2014-01-14 13:43:34 UTC
First it should be pointed out that this game *needs* carebears. Where else would you get your minerals? Pretty hard to pvp effectively in a mining ship. If every carebear in the game left, you would be starved for easy targets, then once you had eaten through the ore reserves and stockpiled gear, the game would die. It's perfectly appropriate for people like me to play this game.

Secondly, the people guarding the carebears in Eve (realistically, that just means they happen to be in a ship not designed for engaging in combat) are part of the Alliance, and I presume the Alliance income covers the effort. Maybe the industrialist corp is renting the system and this includes security? Also, being a Nullsec version of Concord has it's own rewards. Pride in keeping your charges alive. Stature in the community (good, not bad). A challenge of your skills at combat, tactics, and strategy. And cheaper ships and gear (since the cost to manufacture out there is less when industrialists are able to do what they do instead of sit around waiting for red's to leave the system)!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#714 - 2014-01-14 13:44:33 UTC
Kira Enomoto wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And in the spirit of that competition, what people are saying is "we can't win". "It is impossible to win". "So CCP needs to take their stuff away".


What they're asking for is to not have the entirety of the production in the game dictated by highsec by virtue of NPC slots being superior to player owned ones.

That is not unreasonable.


Have you thought about why they are supierior?..... Roll


I haven't thought about whatever lore reason someone might use, no. Because using a lore reason to justify a bad mechanic isn't something I would do.

But player controlled infrastructure being strictly inferior to NPC controlled infrastructure is the primary source of the problem.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Prince Kobol
#715 - 2014-01-14 13:47:07 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
One thing I've seen too is the assumption that miners in null will spend more time in stations than mining since they'd have to bail when a red pop's into local. Umm.... maybe we haven't highlighted enough the part where the Alliance is guarding the industrialist effort? That Roq fleet isn't solo out there. They'd be guarded by some soft of defense force, either immediately in the area, or on a gate close by.

This is the part where the Alliance would have to strive to be better than your standard blop fleet. Tactics, strategy, leadership at all levels, etc. Even still there would certainly be mining losses. But all of this would be a grand effort at PGC that has never before been seen in Eve (as best as I know having scanned the intertubes). There might have been efforts to make this happen, but nothing at the level that's being talked about here. This is the kind of thing that immortalizes character names.



Been there and done that and surprise surprise it didn't work, why, because who the hell wants to log onto to a game and watch somebody mine for a few hours not getting any isk?

Why should people spend hours watching other people mine (earn isk) when they have not?

The system we created for miners had a station, a number of safe pos's, system was cyno jammed, gates bubbled on both sides, intel channels as well as scout in the system leading to ours.

The most we managed was just over an hour of mining before a fleet of reds came our way, great we didn't lose any ships but that was the end of the mining session.

We tried again and in a short space of time a red appeared in local, he had logged in our system.

The local reds made it there duty, and rightly so, to make sure they would send scouts our way and cloaky camp our system with a number of different pilots.

Remember this is null so they just could't pop next door or a few systems away and carry on.

Again, its fine being able to say you can earn more isk per hour in null, but considering you can mine for 12 hours straight if you want in HS, you cant even get close to this in null so HS becomes a better place to be, that is even before you take everything else into account.
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#716 - 2014-01-14 13:47:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And in the spirit of that competition, what people are saying is "we can't win". "It is impossible to win". "So CCP needs to take their stuff away".


What they're asking for is to not have the entirety of the production in the game dictated by highsec by virtue of NPC slots being superior to player owned ones.

That is not unreasonable.

I thought it was established that Null had even more manufacturing capacity than highsec? That the problem was the asshats in null?

It was also pointed out that refining is inferior to highsec, and I agree that this should be at least normalized. I would support a small 5% or so efficiency rate over highsec. Remember, null has all the ore that highsec has, plus more. **IF** it was safer to get....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#717 - 2014-01-14 13:48:44 UTC
Quote:
Maybe the industrialist corp is renting the system and this includes security?


Do you have a clue what "renting" means?

Quote:
Also, being a Nullsec version of Concord has it's own rewards. Pride in keeping your charges alive. Stature in the community (good, not bad). A challenge of your skills at combat, tactics, and strategy. And cheaper ships and gear (since the cost to manufacture out there is less when industrialists are able to do what they do instead of sit around waiting for red's to leave the system)!


None of which is worth either the boredom of sitting there watching you mine until someone tries to kill you (it's literally more boring than gatecamping), or the massive opportunity cost of having pilots dedicated to your defense.

They are literally better off if the players who would have been defending you just grind L4s or Incursions in highsec and they just buy the stuff they need and ship it to nullsec.

It's faster, easier and cheaper. Not to mention there is no vulnerable infrastructure to defend 23/7.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Prince Kobol
#718 - 2014-01-14 13:52:25 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
First it should be pointed out that this game *needs* carebears. Where else would you get your minerals? Pretty hard to pvp effectively in a mining ship. If every carebear in the game left, you would be starved for easy targets, then once you had eaten through the ore reserves and stockpiled gear, the game would die. It's perfectly appropriate for people like me to play this game.

Secondly, the people guarding the carebears in Eve (realistically, that just means they happen to be in a ship not designed for engaging in combat) are part of the Alliance, and I presume the Alliance income covers the effort. Maybe the industrialist corp is renting the system and this includes security? Also, being a Nullsec version of Concord has it's own rewards. Pride in keeping your charges alive. Stature in the community (good, not bad). A challenge of your skills at combat, tactics, and strategy. And cheaper ships and gear (since the cost to manufacture out there is less when industrialists are able to do what they do instead of sit around waiting for red's to leave the system)!


I have no issue with people care bearing (if thats how you want to put it) in HS, they pay there money same as everybody else and they can play what ever way they choose.


The issue is that there is no balance for the Industrialist.

HS has the best of everything, Low isn't great but still has its good points, WH sucks as its dependent on PoS's which is why everything gets transported to HS and null sec sucks as well which is why so much is transported from HS.

There needs to be some incentive for corps / alliances in null to want to manufacture there and there needs to be incentives for people to go out to null and mine / build.

At this moment in time there is none other then game mechanics which force people to build dreads / carriers / rorq in low and supers/ titans in null sov
Kira Enomoto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#719 - 2014-01-14 13:58:14 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And in the spirit of that competition, what people are saying is "we can't win". "It is impossible to win". "So CCP needs to take their stuff away".


What they're asking for is to not have the entirety of the production in the game dictated by highsec by virtue of NPC slots being superior to player owned ones.

That is not unreasonable.

I thought it was established that Null had even more manufacturing capacity than highsec? That the problem was the asshats in null?

It was also pointed out that refining is inferior to highsec, and I agree that this should be at least normalized. I would support a small 5% or so efficiency rate over highsec. Remember, null has all the ore that highsec has, plus more. **IF** it was safer to get....


How do you get that it is inferior? The best refiner gets you 75% with skill there is no waste. or am I missing something?...
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#720 - 2014-01-14 13:59:03 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Maybe the industrialist corp is renting the system and this includes security?


Do you have a clue what "renting" means?



In EVE it means the Landlord has no requirements to give a stuff

So much like the real world in that respect lol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann