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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#521 - 2014-01-12 20:28:35 UTC
So maybe players will take risks by not taking risks? Yeah that makes sense.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
TharOkha
0asis Group
#522 - 2014-01-12 22:52:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Hire more miners. Give them reason to live there, buy minerals from them, protect them. Then you will have plenty of minerals (with price tag and quantity as good as in hisec, even maybe better). Then you can start mass industry in null.


I'm going to wager, if you did the maths, it'd be cheaper to import from high sec than to bother protecting miners who contribute nothing but mineral sell orders.


Protecting them isn't an issue.

Its the fact that the industry part would still work out as more expensive than just importing directly from Jita.


May i ask why?

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#523 - 2014-01-12 23:26:13 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So maybe players will take risks by not taking risks? Yeah that makes sense.


Oh you people will be bitching about risk versus reward until they shut down the servers.

Then you will realize all this arguing was wasted time.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#524 - 2014-01-12 23:28:35 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So maybe players will take risks by not taking risks? Yeah that makes sense.


Oh you people will be bitching about risk versus reward until they shut down the servers.

Then you will realize all this arguing was wasted time.

This is ALL wasted time. But it's my time to waste.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#525 - 2014-01-12 23:50:57 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
Perhaps if players had access to more defensive tools they would take risks outside of high sec.

Too bad the original Mobile Scan Inhibitor idea got killed by the status quo before it could get out the gate.


More defensive tools? Like

-Warp Core Sabailizers
-Ships with built in Warp Core Stabalizers
-Ships that can ignore bubbles (properly fit T3s and ANY interceptor)
-Micro jumpdrives (which let you jump out of bubbles and blink yourself 100km from trouble)
-ECM
-ECM Drones
-ECM Bursts
-Cloaks
-Cloaks coupled with Microwarpdrives
-Covert Cloaks with or without Microwarpdrives
-Microwarpdrives with or without cloaks (nice for getting back to a gate in a small ship)
-Target Spectrum Breakers
-Energy Neutralizers
-Mobile Depots (which allow you to swap defensive equipment in and out on a whim)

And whatever else I forgot. EVE has more than enough tools, just some people don't want to use them.
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#526 - 2014-01-12 23:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ZynnLee Akkori
Diamond Zerg wrote:


Edit:

Hold on a minute guys, I'm getting a lot of replies about how the hisec PvE population will quit.

To me, this doesn't make much sense. There are many other games with a much more focused, sophisticated PVE experience.

Why would many PvE gamers play a game that doesn't have much PvE content?

It has lots of PvE content, and the large number of people who don't like stabbed-in-the-back gaming where you can get killed at any time will quit. I know it's in fashion on these boards to ridicule 'carebears', but this game would be a pale shadow of itself if our game style is make un-fun and we leave. Kinda hard to gank people if the only people left are those looking for a fight......

And yes, there are other games with better PvE content, but none of them have the sandbox, sci-fi, single shard atmosphere Eve has.
Pipa Porto
#527 - 2014-01-12 23:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
TharOkha wrote:
May i ask why?


Trit. Among so many other reasons.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#528 - 2014-01-13 00:15:13 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

It has lots of PvE content, and the large number of people who don't like stabbed-in-the-back gaming where you can get killed at any time will quit.


That's just the feel good fallacy high sec people want to cling to to justify (to themselves) their beliefs. It's just not true.

They are already playing the KING of 'stabbed-in-the-back gaming' despite it's poor pve and despite how others games are WAY better at pve. Star Trek Online's pve is so shockingly better than EVE's it isn't even funny (and remember, STO was supposed to kill EVE lol).

This is simply a case of the 'carebears' not understanding themselves. They think they want to be left alone to carebear in peace yet they refuse to play the games the enforce that while choosing to play a game that calls "griefing" style game play "working as intended" gameplay. The bears would complain if you did anything to high sec, but they would not leave. The didn't leave when the game was truly dangerous before safeties and crimewatch...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#529 - 2014-01-13 00:24:11 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
but none of them have the sandbox, sci-fi, single shard atmosphere Eve has.

So you're saying this is the aspect you like about EVE, yet it's the aspect you're asking them to remove.
Not that we didn't know this before, but it bears repeating: you're a moron.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#530 - 2014-01-13 00:29:25 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
but none of them have the sandbox, sci-fi, single shard atmosphere Eve has.

So you're saying this is the aspect you like about EVE, yet it's the aspect you're asking them to remove.
Not that we didn't know this before, but it bears repeating: you're a moron.


There's nothing to be gained by calling people morons, James. Big smile

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#531 - 2014-01-13 00:32:08 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general.


... for you, during the one month before the game dies completely.

Diamond Zerg wrote:
Bots are no longer worthwhile as they make easy targets for PvPers.


Nullsec is already dominated by bot-mining. Thus your theory has already been disproven.

Diamond Zerg wrote:
The EVE economy becomes dominated by intelligent humans, not machines or "bot aspirant" grinders.


See above.

Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hold on a minute guys, I'm getting a lot of replies about how the hisec PvE population will quit.

Why would many PvE gamers play a game that doesn't have much PvE content?


They would not. See my first comment.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#532 - 2014-01-13 00:34:27 UTC
James, you are so silly. Can't seem to have a civil discourse?

I didn't like STO very much. I had/have hopes for it, but we'll see. There is no doubt that for me Eve is the king of the sci-fi MMO's. Like everything in life, I dislike some parts, and like other parts. As much as the intolerant around here want to believe Eve is all about the PvP, there exists a fairly fun PvE game that I (and many others) enjoy.

Nerfing highsec will simply drive me away. And as happy as the ego-maniacs may be to see me and other highsec carebears exit stage right, the game would become drastically different really quickly.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#533 - 2014-01-13 00:37:10 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general.


... for you, during the one month before the game dies completely.

Diamond Zerg wrote:
Bots are no longer worthwhile as they make easy targets for PvPers.


Nullsec is already dominated by bot-mining. Thus your theory has already been disproven.

Diamond Zerg wrote:
The EVE economy becomes dominated by intelligent humans, not machines or "bot aspirant" grinders.


See above.

Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hold on a minute guys, I'm getting a lot of replies about how the hisec PvE population will quit.

Why would many PvE gamers play a game that doesn't have much PvE content?


They would not. See my first comment.


It's like that split second right before you witness the train wreck. You should have read the rest of the thread before posting this.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#534 - 2014-01-13 00:48:49 UTC
TBH a good percentage of casual players who prefer to carebear eventually leave after 6 months to a year anyway.

They have certain goals such as make X amount of ISK or get to fly ship Y (typically plex my account for free and fly an orca) and once that is achieved their interest fades as even more ISK is not particularly a challenge and skilling up for ever more shiney ships gets old.

However forcing them to PvP is not likely to encourage more than the occasional person to stay longer.

Most of these people will not or do not enjoy PvP. Some, I can think of examples in my mains corp for example, are surprisingly successful at PvP when they bother (such as during war decs) but just do not find it fun. Either because the EVE rubber-duck-toy-navy-mechanics does not do it for them or simply because they are a personality type adverse to PvP and confrontation in any form, full stop.

More importantly, even though most of these guys will leave eventually I am not sure how forcing them to leave earlier helps the game.
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#535 - 2014-01-13 00:56:02 UTC
I love PvP, just not forced. I get my fix in FPS. That being said, I am waiting out the damn skill schedule so I can fit some tier II modules. Once I can fit properly, I'll be putting someone into a 'general' corp that does some PvP. Prolly won't be this toon though. I want to experience more Eve PvP on a character designed to do it. No industry, mining, or research skills.... just pvp. When I don't feel like pvp in Eve, I log in a different toon.

This is why highsec is so valuable to me (and I can't help but think a lot of other highsec players feel similarly). I have better control of when I find myself in PvP. And generally speaking, better survivability.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#536 - 2014-01-13 01:05:52 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Nullsec is already dominated by bot-mining. Thus your theory has already been disproven.

Your claim has already been disproven.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#537 - 2014-01-13 01:06:40 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Can't seem to have a civil discourse?

Can't you have an intelligent one?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#538 - 2014-01-13 01:15:03 UTC
Apparently not to you, but that doesn't really mean anything.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#539 - 2014-01-13 01:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
TBH a good percentage of casual players who prefer to carebear eventually leave after 6 months to a year anyway.


Carebear - Since June of 2008 - took maybe a total of 2 years off. But I don't deny that I may be in the minority.

Hasikan Miallok wrote:
They have certain goals such as make X amount of ISK or get to fly ship Y (typically plex my account for free and fly an orca) and once that is achieved their interest fades as even more ISK is not particularly a challenge and skilling up for ever more shiney ships gets old.


While I can spend a whole weekend farming L4s, occasionally I strap myself into a Merlin and steamroll L1s. I think tomorrow I might have a go at L2s in that Merlin - just for fun. I don't play for a goal to get into X. I play for fun. Also it was recently pointed out to me that I may have mild OCD so I MUST get those skills to V! Lol

Hasikan Miallok wrote:
However forcing them to PvP is not likely to encourage more than the occasional person to stay longer.


I think that there may have been a post in this thread that indicated that CCP research showed that players who do a little bit of everything tend to stay in the game. I did try PvP. It was okay but not what I want to do every time I'm logged on.

Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Most of these people will not or do not enjoy PvP. Some, I can think of examples in my mains corp for example, are surprisingly successful at PvP when they bother (such as during war decs) but just do not find it fun. Either because the EVE rubber-duck-toy-navy-mechanics does not do it for them or simply because they are a personality type adverse to PvP and confrontation in any form, full stop.


I thought about this a lot today actually. A friend challenged my style of play but also asked me honest questions about it so she could get a better understanding - a kind of "Examining Carebears in the Wild" documentary type thing.

I think there are some who do NOT see their ship as a disposable asset. I bought a Golem less than a month ago (after Pyfa-warrioring it for two days and testing the fit on Singularity). Since then I've made enough in running missions to recover the cost of the Golem and the fittings (T2 only because anything more than that is a waste of ISK and a beacon to the PvP Enthusiast). Anyway, it was an investment, has had a pretty decent rate of return, and if it gets exploded I'm okay with that. Make sense?

Now the guy who finally has enough to buy his Raven. He can finally feel big and awesome and do L4 missions and it is so shiny and cool! And he loses it on that first day (because the little drones got on top of him and scrammed him in the very first L4 he tried to solo - but I'm Caldari what are drones?) Lol... I feel for that guy. He got no return on his investment. But that is what this game is about. "It sucks that you got blown up but always remember this. You started this game with 5,000 ISK and somehow you made it this far".

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2014-01-13 01:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
TBH a good percentage of casual players who prefer to carebear eventually leave after 6 months to a year anyway.

Not sure I agree with this. The most recent CSM meeting minutes seem to imply otherwise:

"Those [players] that follow the PvE/Builder path retain at a higher rate. Players who go from Novice to Aggressor (pure PvP) tend to filter out of the game."

But then again, it doesn't really make any comparisons between a PVE player that continues down the PVE path versus a PVE player that later adds PVP to its C.V.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.