EVE General Discussion

No argument here at all sir. But I'm not sure all of that can be blamed on imbalance. Null sec simply doesn't sound fun to me at all. I don't measure my success in this game in ISK/hr. I measure it in fun/hr.

If the extent of fun in NS is docking whenever a red or neutral comes into system then I can completely understand why NS residents come to HS. But nerfing HS does not make docking whenever a red or neutral comes into system any more fun. Buffing ISK/hr rewards relative to risk in NS does not make docking whenever a red or neutral comes into system any more fun.

Every earning method quoted in high sec has higher potential in null sec. SoE missions are eclipsed by Sanctuary corp missions. Incursions in Null earn 40% more than in high (Incursions in low even have revenant BPC chance). Anoms once loot is averaged out over a long period of time can easily earn 200 mil/hr. Sure you might have a bad day. You might loose ships. That's the risk/reward ratio I was talking about. But absolute earning potential per hour, null exceeds high.
And this ignores moon goo, officer drops & PI earnings, which High Sec doesn't have a single thing that comes close to them in the same field.

It's only Risk/Reward that stops you, you have decided that the massive increase in risk is not worth that degree of reward increase. And for that, I can't entirely blame you. But, that doesn't mean that the isk isn't in null to be made. It is a choice to not accept the risk. You aren't forced to leave Null.

For a single individual, accounted for as an individual, the upper bounds of income are higher, yes.

But income in nullsec is inherently subtractive as there is never enough of anything to go around. You can't just tell the entirety of nullsec to go do anoms, because there just are not enough.

As opposed to highsec, where their income is inherently multiplicative because there is an inexhaustible supply of L4s.

Sure, 1 in 100 guys in nullsec can get rich doing anoms.

But 100 in 100 guys can farm an L4 all day.

so i'm going to skip all of the waffle and focus on what i asked "how much". 200m/hour high sec incursions, semi afk, uninterrupted make me just shy of that *before* lp conversion.

so you're telling me that for all that extra risk, inconvenience, and interrupted play i can earn basically the same?

i hope you now understand why this thread exists.

I agree Kaarous. All of these people ruin my enjoyment of the game.

Nerf whiners!

somewhat.

the situation shouldn't be "high sec is better in every way, my alt will make isk there". it should be "well there's the baseline of high sec, but i'm going to do activity X in null sec because even though aspect Y is a bit more difficult, i don't mind because aspect Z is better".

there are very few situations where this is the case, and hence why i don't waste my time with even attempting to live in a place i regard as eve's equivalent to third world africa.

you're clearly out of touch with incursions; 150m/hour is very easily obtainable from high sec incursions before LP conversion; that's how i fund my alts.

you're not making more in null because the availability of incursions in null is greatly reduced; as i pointed out. if you wish to ignore all of the factors then that's on you. however i've just pointed out the isk is comparable however null sec simply can not compete due to the massive lack of availability. right now there are 3 high sec incursions up, and only two null sec incursions up. and unless scalding pass is n3pl territory... that means half of null sec doesn't have an incursion to run while i'm making all my isk in high sec half afk posting on the forums and watching films.

i think they are done, as fast as possible to close them due to the system wide affects. which means they're then not available as a source of income.

and that also means they're done mostly under influence, which means refitting for more tank due to the system affects hence making the isk/hour substantially lower as sites are completed slower.

That makes sense. I roam null fairly often lately, and I see incursions just left there for a while, like they're just ignored, then they just tend to go away the next day.

So I doubt anybody's making bank off of those, yeah.

2 high sec, 1 island if you want to start getting fussy, which means 95% of high sec doesn't have access to one of them under your criteria for it all being controlled territory. Of course you then must have high enough standings, which eliminates a lot of FW pilots and anyone who has run missions for pirates.....
Which means a lot of people don't have access to the high sec incursions also.
150/hr before LP is also is faster than the standard incursion fleet can do. 150/hr is a site every 12 minutes. 15 is a much more normal figure, then 5 min bio breaks every 2 hours. (The 200 mil rubbish you claimed would need a site every 7 minutes just as a note)
If you want to use the upper bounds of what income is possible doing an activity then you also must accept the 500/hr upper figure for anoms, since we are assuming the maximum potential rather than a reasonable average.

Meaning yet again, Null earns more. Sure, there are reasons you don't. But that doesn't mean the isk isn't there, it just means you don't take it.

And considering most materials are imported from Null to High, unless you are selling them without allowing for travel costs in high, it will be cheaper to produce in Null. The infrastructure does mostly exist with the recent outpost buff as my figures showed, with one industrial outpost being the equivalent of a decent high sec industrial hub with six or so manufacturing stations present in it. Player built outposts are significantly superior to NPC stations now in most ways.
POS, well, yea, they suck no matter what the space is. And that's a problem to solve.

But going on about how Null 'can't earn & 'can't manufacture simply isn't true. Null chooses not to, but they could ignore high if they wanted to and be fine. If Null vanished however, High sec would be destroyed. No T2 Mods or ships at all, no High end minerals making most ship building very hard since only loot reprocessing would give them and that isn't a significant portion any more. (After drone poo nerf which was mainly null anyway). And most PI products would vanish given how much better Null is at them.
So, Null is actually in a pretty good place. It could be made a bit better sure. And there are quality of life improvements like non crappy POS's for all spaces. But it doesn't need a massive multiplication any more. it just got that.