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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2901 - 2014-02-08 23:14:54 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
CCP seriously nerfed salvaging - we got over it.
CCP seriously nerfed data core farming - we got over it.

But one little nerf to one little thing in null and all hell breaks loose.

Aich tee eff you and get over it.

Mr Epeen Cool


You didn't get over it when the MTU made it a bad idea to use drones set to aggressive while afk.

Instead, highsec as a whole cried and cried until CCP backpedaled and "fixed" it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2902 - 2014-02-08 23:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
baltec1 wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
what we want is for null anoms to be worth doing.


Naga + old guristas forsaken hubs were a great source of income. Do you know why ccp added frigates? I'm just asking.


Give me a reason to run anoms for 70 mil when I can run high sec level 4s for over 100 mil.


First, i don't live in hi sec and i don't care how much money they can make, so i don't know the answer for that. If that is true, i still prefer to live where i am.

Second, i asked a simple question because i'm curious, nothing more.


The latest nerf was to try and get us to use the ESS. Its failed and made a bad situation even worse.

The fact that high sec is more rewarding that the likes of null is very bad for this game. So again, where is the logic in having the best isk/hr pve in the safest area of space?


If this were in fact true and its always been this way....How in the HELL has this game made it this far? If the balance of hi-sec to null is so frign bad and ruining the game as you claim....how are we even still here to argue about it??

I will place my trust in CCP and their staff (including their economist with a degree) to do whats best for the game as a whole not whats best for the individual. Unless I start seeing things being whispered in the ears of devs in happy bars.

Will not be placing my trust or faith in the ideas of self serving forum trolls.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2903 - 2014-02-08 23:30:57 UTC


Their economist did not push for this to happen. The problem is that for years CCP have nerfed null income for many reasons ( most with the aim of driving conflict) but they did not nerf high sec to keep the areas balanced.

CCP have got it wrong many many times and its starting to become a running habbit where we tell them there is a problem, they ignore it, we then abuse whatever is imbalanced and then CCP fix it because they cant ignore it. The latest such example is drone assist.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2904 - 2014-02-08 23:40:36 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
What effect does that have on personal income and please provide the data to support that relevancy.


I explained that in the post you just quoted.

You can't even dock up in null without sov. If you think doesn't have an effect on income, you are insane. And that's just one of the effects.


Pinky, I think your missing the driver behind this discussion.

[u][i][b]People live in Null.

These people, not people living in highsec but the people living in Null, are making their PVE income in HighSec because that is more lucrative than making money (again through PVE) in NullSec. The data that has been provided supports this claim.



The data? from CCP? Because thats the only data that means anything.
ashley Eoner
#2905 - 2014-02-08 23:44:35 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
That's why the only way I can think of increasing individual income is via a LP mechanic. That way you create a source of extra income without making it a faucet and in the process of redeeming the LP you end up with an added sink. The sink aspect of LP is probably why CCP doesn't seem to worried about blitzers because they see blitzers as a strong sink. Since they aren't collecting much in bounties when they do it right.


This is precisely what I've been advocating. I also agree with La Nariz that if implemented it should be CONCORD LP so that the most lucrative items are available.

I'd also like to get more info from Mara Rinn about his idea of making LP items via NullSec industry. Based on this discussion as a whole it would seem they need some help in that regard as well and I'm curious what benefit that would be to make NullSec more livable for individual line members/grunts.



Also Ashley as far as the working thing - we do what we have to do so we can do what we want to do. Big smile
I mentioned a LP reward concept like 30 something pages ago so you're not alone on this.

Concord LP would be a good general LP allowing for flexibility in redeeming. I fear what CCP would come up with if they decided to create a new LP for nullsec. ALthough if they did it right a nullsec LP would have potential.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2906 - 2014-02-08 23:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
baltec1 wrote:


Their economist did not push for this to happen. The problem is that for years CCP have nerfed null income for many reasons ( most with the aim of driving conflict) but they did not nerf high sec to keep the areas balanced.

CCP have got it wrong many many times and its starting to become a running habbit where we tell them there is a problem, they ignore it, we then abuse whatever is imbalanced and then CCP fix it because they cant ignore it. The latest such example is drone assist.

Maybe thats part of the problem. This would not be the first game to be ruined by its overly vocal forum trolls. Seems to me after 10 years the game is still here despite of how bad you claim the balance to be.

Look I am not saying null couldnt use some sov mechanic changes but I dont really see how people can argue the individual can make more isk in hi-sec over one in Null.

This shouldnt even be considered imho as it should not be whats being made by the individuals but how its effecting the game as a whole.

Even comparing on the individual level the spectrum for variables is just to vast making the argument moot as we have seen for 140 pages.
Mario Putzo
#2907 - 2014-02-08 23:54:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Their economist did not push for this to happen. The problem is that for years CCP have nerfed null income for many reasons ( most with the aim of driving conflict) but they did not nerf high sec to keep the areas balanced.

CCP have got it wrong many many times and its starting to become a running habbit where we tell them there is a problem, they ignore it, we then abuse whatever is imbalanced and then CCP fix it because they cant ignore it. The latest such example is drone assist.


Just because they nerfed nullsec doesn't mean they have to nerf highsec. Nullsec is balanced around nullsec. Highsec is balanced around highsec. 2 different regional economies that impact the global economy of the game. Now I agree CCP has boned the balance on numerous occasions the Technetium imbalances and the Drone Region imbalances are prime examples. But just because Null income goes down or up, doesn't mean highsec income should go down or up.

The only reason you can come up with is "balance". Balance is an illusion, balance is different to everyone. Case in point you believing Drone Assist is an issue. Its the Drones that are the issue, not the fact that you can assign them to people. It is the drone itself. Why does it matter to you if 100 dudes want to assign drones to someone and watch someone else play the game. If that actually causes an issue for you, perhaps you should move on from EVE because you take it way to seriously.

See my opinion on the situation is that CCP should make Blues cost money, for every additional blue entity that cost grows exponentially,. because the problem isn't even drones. It is the 4K dudes blobbing 1 timer with 5+ drones each...which are there regardless of drone assign. I think the game is heavily imbalanced economically as a lowsec player, I think both Highsec and Nullsec should be heavily nerfed in terms of income...

But you know what...I can always move to highsec or nullsec...so the issue isn't with the regional economy...the issue is with me not wanting to leave lowsec.

Its no different than the real world economies. The US just went through 6 years of ****. Should the rest of the world stop functioning because the US was inconvenienced? If Chinese steel becomes inefficient, should US steel stop being produced because its not fair that America is creating jobs and fueling the global economy while China isn't?

If you truly think another area is more lucrative and you seriously think it is an issue. Move there.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2908 - 2014-02-09 00:02:24 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Their economist did not push for this to happen. The problem is that for years CCP have nerfed null income for many reasons ( most with the aim of driving conflict) but they did not nerf high sec to keep the areas balanced.

CCP have got it wrong many many times and its starting to become a running habbit where we tell them there is a problem, they ignore it, we then abuse whatever is imbalanced and then CCP fix it because they cant ignore it. The latest such example is drone assist.


Just because they nerfed nullsec doesn't mean they have to nerf highsec. Nullsec is balanced around nullsec. Highsec is balanced around highsec. 2 different regional economies that impact the global economy of the game. Now I agree CCP has boned the balance on numerous occasions the Technetium imbalances and the Drone Region imbalances are prime examples. But just because Null income goes down or up, doesn't mean highsec income should go down or up.

The only reason you can come up with is "balance". Balance is an illusion, balance is different to everyone. Case in point you believing Drone Assist is an issue. Its the Drones that are the issue, not the fact that you can assign them to people. It is the drone itself. Why does it matter to you if 100 dudes want to assign drones to someone and watch someone else play the game. If that actually causes an issue for you, perhaps you should move on from EVE because you take it way to seriously.

See my opinion on the situation is that CCP should make Blues cost money, for every additional blue entity that cost grows exponentially,. because the problem isn't even drones. It is the 4K dudes blobbing 1 timer with 5+ drones each...which are there regardless of drone assign. I think the game is heavily imbalanced economically as a lowsec player, I think both Highsec and Nullsec should be heavily nerfed in terms of income...

But you know what...I can always move to highsec or nullsec...so the issue isn't with the regional economy...the issue is with me not wanting to leave lowsec.

Its no different than the real world economies. The US just went through 6 years of ****. Should the rest of the world stop functioning because the US was inconvenienced? If Chinese steel becomes inefficient, should US steel stop being produced because its not fair that America is creating jobs and fueling the global economy while China isn't?

If you truly think another area is more lucrative and you seriously think it is an issue. Move there.


I agree there should be some sort of determent for having 85% of null blue. Either isk or stat or something reasonable.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2909 - 2014-02-09 00:32:13 UTC
Quote:
in point you believing Drone Assist is an issue. Its the Drones that are the issue, not the fact that you can assign them to people.


Ha ha, no.

It was the ability of a single person being able to direct the damage of an unlimited number of other ships with the push of one button.

That was the problem.

Drones are an outdated mechanic that is starting to show it's age, but as a concept they are fine.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mario Putzo
#2910 - 2014-02-09 00:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
in point you believing Drone Assist is an issue. Its the Drones that are the issue, not the fact that you can assign them to people.


Ha ha, no.

It was the ability of a single person being able to direct the damage of an unlimited number of other ships with the push of one button.

That was the problem.

Drones are an outdated mechanic that is starting to show it's age, but as a concept they are fine.


Ya because it was drone assist that caused HED-GG. Wonder where Drone Assist was in B-**** since it was such an OP mechanic and all.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2911 - 2014-02-09 00:42:06 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I agree there should be some sort of determent for having 85% of null blue. Either isk or stat or something reasonable.


That's the real troll in the room.

The blue nullsec.

Bluesec, we should really call it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2912 - 2014-02-09 00:48:28 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
in point you believing Drone Assist is an issue. Its the Drones that are the issue, not the fact that you can assign them to people.


Ha ha, no.

It was the ability of a single person being able to direct the damage of an unlimited number of other ships with the push of one button.

That was the problem.

Drones are an outdated mechanic that is starting to show it's age, but as a concept they are fine.


Ya because it was drone assist that caused HED-GG. Wonder where Drone Assist was in B-**** since it was such an OP mechanic and all.


... did you actually read anything about those fights?

I ask this because, if you had, you would not have made a statement like that.

CCP themselves have even acknowledged that the widespread use of drones in fleet fights, (which is only made possible by the drone assist mechanic) is a huge factor in lag.

They just didn't have the internal fortitude, if you take my meaning, to strip the mechanic away entirely.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2913 - 2014-02-09 00:51:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The latest nerf was to try and get us to use the ESS. Its failed and made a bad situation even worse.

The fact that high sec is more rewarding that the likes of null is very bad for this game. So again, where is the logic in having the best isk/hr pve in the safest area of space?


not what the nerf was about

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4113876#post4113876


CCP SoniClover wrote:
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.


You measure of isk per hour does not seem to be shared by CCP.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2914 - 2014-02-09 01:00:23 UTC
GetSirrus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

The latest nerf was to try and get us to use the ESS. Its failed and made a bad situation even worse.

The fact that high sec is more rewarding that the likes of null is very bad for this game. So again, where is the logic in having the best isk/hr pve in the safest area of space?


not what the nerf was about

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4113876#post4113876


CCP SoniClover wrote:
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.


You measure of isk per hour does not seem to be shared by CCP.


They backpedalled from that so fast it was funny, so you might want to check that again.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
goudaMob
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2915 - 2014-02-09 01:08:11 UTC
SFHDNINH953-H9-3M3HM395HM935MH935MH935MH-935MM;SS99SM;YHSHS5HS55HS8HS343S5HSHS5HS'H''""""""RFW4F4WF4AF4
FWW4FW4
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h3h35hmmh5000h0h0050h5h050h050h050h0eh59dmhkldmh;ksdmnh'kasdnh;as5h935m[h35h
ahe506hmmmm3qh/akmaskfhm/asdo5tp3[5npg35[gaasghasdh}}g[s[v[][]][]{}}}}}}{{{{{bdmbk;dmb
xbmimdkbmldmb;dm5bd5

**** YOU ALL
Mario Putzo
#2916 - 2014-02-09 01:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
in point you believing Drone Assist is an issue. Its the Drones that are the issue, not the fact that you can assign them to people.


Ha ha, no.

It was the ability of a single person being able to direct the damage of an unlimited number of other ships with the push of one button.

That was the problem.

Drones are an outdated mechanic that is starting to show it's age, but as a concept they are fine.


Ya because it was drone assist that caused HED-GG. Wonder where Drone Assist was in B-**** since it was such an OP mechanic and all.


... did you actually read anything about those fights?

I ask this because, if you had, you would not have made a statement like that.

CCP themselves have even acknowledged that the widespread use of drones in fleet fights, (which is only made possible by the drone assist mechanic) is a huge factor in lag.

They just didn't have the internal fortitude, if you take my meaning, to strip the mechanic away entirely.


. You realize Drone assist has been around for years right. Years. Many more years than drone boat fleets have been popular. Do you know why there was 15000 Drones on grid, because CFC has been cramming this "drone assist" crap down CCPs throat for nearly a year. Since the end of 2012 people have been bitching about it. Just like they bitched about Tracking of Titans, and Drakes, and before that Alpha Maels,, and before that Blaster Megas. And before that Uncapped drone use.

When the next "Alpha" metric comes up people will ***** about it too, and the next and the next. Because the easiest least risky way to get something fixed is to complain about it as loud and as often as possible. Instead of actually working to fix the scenario. Case in point. Drones didn't win B-R, Using the proper counter won B-R. Drones lost HED-GP but CFC knew that which is why 1500 Domis were put on grid and ordered to continually send and recall drones.

Hint ************. I was there. Eve is real.

The problem is 4000 people in system with 5+ Drones a piece. Not who they put the drones on...or even if they do anything with the drones. 20K additional objects messes with the server period. Its why they nerfed HML's and Drakes, because 1500 Drakes launching 7 objects a piece added a fuckton of extra load.

Instead of addressing the problem (why is there 4000 people in this one system) they just nerf whatever the loudest whine is.

Just think if there wasn't 65K dudes Blue to each other, then CCP wouldn't have to keep nerfing income in nullsec to make you guys fight the other 25K people out there.

Its like half you knuckle draggers don't even play this game.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2917 - 2014-02-09 01:11:45 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I agree there should be some sort of determent for having 85% of null blue. Either isk or stat or something reasonable.


That's the real troll in the room.

The blue nullsec.

Bluesec, we should really call it.


Yes, and this is how bluesec ratting actually works (sequence taken from last night).

2014.02.08 14:08:13 Bounty Prizes 1,474,875.00 ISK 3,269,919,993.18 ISK (8 man gang bouncing around my constellation)
2014.02.08 13:48:12 Bounty Prizes 18,674,031.25 ISK 3,268,445,118.18 ISK (taranis)
2014.02.08 13:28:11 Bounty Prizes 19,284,228.60 ISK 3,249,771,086.93 ISK (hound outbound)
2014.02.08 13:08:10 Bounty Prizes 16,666,919.70 ISK 3,230,486,858.33 ISK (hound inbound tried to figure out where I was)
2014.02.08 12:48:09 Bounty Prizes 23,066,357.20 ISK 3,213,819,938.63 ISK (gurista hubs - flat out)
2014.02.08 12:28:09 Bounty Prizes 23,368,100.00 ISK 3,190,753,581.43 ISK (gurista hubs - flat out)
2014.02.08 12:08:08 Bounty Prizes 17,221,066.10 ISK 3,167,385,481.43 ISK (warmup - learning the hubs - fit changed again and the scripts give you a lot of things to screw up)

At 23m/tick in the gurista hubs, I'm rolling along at 70m/isk hr, and this is the encounter with a viable escalation, but as you can see, its 1 step forward, and 1 step back into the pos pretty quick.

Note that I can right now, take the same dominix to the FIO agent in Cat, and earn ~1300 conversion, average a bit over 70 and never get interrupted, and be sure that if I needed 140 for a new hull right now, I'd be done in the time available.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2918 - 2014-02-09 01:12:47 UTC
goudaMob wrote:
SFHDNINH953-H9-3M3HM395HM935MH935MH935MH-935MM;SS99SM;YHSHS5HS55HS8HS343S5HSHS5HS'H''""""""RFW4F4WF4AF4
FWW4FW4
FW4FW4FW43735730000K0KJ0K0JKD0KJ0DKJ0KD0JK0DJK0DK0JKJDGKLJDLJ;WHMNTH;;;;;;s
sbrgm0,g422 2ot kok02k0k0k02rgdt;kdmt0h09000
h3h35hmmh5000h0h0050h5h050h050h050h0eh59dmhkldmh;ksdmnh'kasdnh;as5h935m[h35h
ahe506hmmmm3qh/akmaskfhm/asdo5tp3[5npg35[gaasghasdh}}g[s[v[][]][]{}}}}}}{{{{{bdmbk;dmb
xbmimdkbmldmb;dm5bd5

**** YOU ALL


The most eloquent post in the thread thus far.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2919 - 2014-02-09 01:15:29 UTC
@Mario.

I am not a Goon, nor associated with them.

I've thought drone assist was bullshit long before any of this came up. Off grid boosting too. In general, I am an advocate of actually playing the damn game.

You, on the other hand, have been unmasked as a N3 alt. And seemingly, a very bitter one at that, too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2920 - 2014-02-09 01:22:34 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I agree there should be some sort of determent for having 85% of null blue. Either isk or stat or something reasonable.


That's the real troll in the room.

The blue nullsec.

Bluesec, we should really call it.


Yes, and this is how bluesec ratting actually works (sequence taken from last night).

2014.02.08 14:08:13 Bounty Prizes 1,474,875.00 ISK 3,269,919,993.18 ISK (8 man gang bouncing around my constellation)
2014.02.08 13:48:12 Bounty Prizes 18,674,031.25 ISK 3,268,445,118.18 ISK (taranis)
2014.02.08 13:28:11 Bounty Prizes 19,284,228.60 ISK 3,249,771,086.93 ISK (hound outbound)
2014.02.08 13:08:10 Bounty Prizes 16,666,919.70 ISK 3,230,486,858.33 ISK (hound inbound tried to figure out where I was)
2014.02.08 12:48:09 Bounty Prizes 23,066,357.20 ISK 3,213,819,938.63 ISK (gurista hubs - flat out)
2014.02.08 12:28:09 Bounty Prizes 23,368,100.00 ISK 3,190,753,581.43 ISK (gurista hubs - flat out)
2014.02.08 12:08:08 Bounty Prizes 17,221,066.10 ISK 3,167,385,481.43 ISK (warmup - learning the hubs - fit changed again and the scripts give you a lot of things to screw up)

At 23m/tick in the gurista hubs, I'm rolling along at 70m/isk hr, and this is the encounter with a viable escalation, but as you can see, its 1 step forward, and 1 step back into the pos pretty quick.

Note that I can right now, take the same dominix to the FIO agent in Cat, and earn ~1300 conversion, average a bit over 70 and never get interrupted, and be sure that if I needed 140 for a new hull right now, I'd be done in the time available.





I assume you are a renter. Where's your other income? Or is shooting rats the only thing you can figure out how to make money in your system?

In which case, how can you afford to rent?