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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2801 - 2014-02-08 16:11:24 UTC
Sylveria Relden wrote:

That would make the game in general much more interesting. Can you imagine losing SOV randomly and having to field troops to defend?


I bet PL can.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2802 - 2014-02-08 16:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
I'm saying that you can't compare things in a vacuum.

It's pointless to compare individual income streams like that because they represent such small pieces of the overall pie.

Comparing nullsec to highsec based on mission/ratting income is kind of like comparing two different jobs based on which one has a better vending machine in the lunch room.


Name what null sov has in place of missions.


Titans.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sylveria Relden wrote:

That would make the game in general much more interesting. Can you imagine losing SOV randomly and having to field troops to defend?


I bet PL can.


hahahahhah Big smile
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2803 - 2014-02-08 16:12:47 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Name what null sov has in place of missions.
Titans.
Not an individual PvE income stream, so no. Try again.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2804 - 2014-02-08 16:15:34 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
I'm saying that you can't compare things in a vacuum.

It's pointless to compare individual income streams like that because they represent such small pieces of the overall pie.

Comparing nullsec to highsec based on mission/ratting income is kind of like comparing two different jobs based on which one has a better vending machine in the lunch room.


Name what null sov has in place of missions.


Titans.




This has what to do with pve?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2805 - 2014-02-08 16:16:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Name what null sov has in place of missions.
Titans.
Not an individual PvE income stream, so no. Try again.


Cooperate to build Titan.

Split profits.

Now it's a bunch of individual income streams.

Remember, EVE is meant to reward people working together.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2806 - 2014-02-08 16:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pinky Hops wrote:
Cooperate to build
So not an individual PvE income stream. Try again.

What you're doing there is kind of like comparing two different jobs based on whether the local lunch restaurant has good chicken or not.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2807 - 2014-02-08 16:19:09 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Name what null sov has in place of missions.
Titans.
Not an individual PvE income stream, so no. Try again.


Cooperate to build Titan.

Split profits.

Now it's a bunch of individual income streams.

Remember, EVE is meant to reward people working together.


You can build Titans in HighSec? I think you're going off on one of those tangents Tippia was accusing you of again.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2808 - 2014-02-08 16:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
nullsec is the space where alliances take sovereignty for no reason. their members then all cooperate together to build a titan, made from thousands of highsec-built large railguns taped together, for which the alliance pays each hauler several hundred million isk a day from ??? funding during the manufacturing period. the titan is used to take more space to build more titans. the end.

e: actually are the capital construction parts built onsite or shipped in?

e: this posting is getting worse and worse and i'm not helping, i'm going to bed
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2809 - 2014-02-08 16:23:11 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Name what null sov has in place of missions.
Titans.
Not an individual PvE income stream, so no. Try again.


Cooperate to build Titan.

Split profits.

Now it's a bunch of individual income streams.

Remember, EVE is meant to reward people working together.


Building titans is not a pve activity. Its not even a combat activity.


So I ask you again, what does null sov have in place of lvel 4 missions.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2810 - 2014-02-08 16:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kimmi Chan wrote:
You can build Titans in HighSec? I think you're going off on one of those tangents Tippia was accusing you of again.


The fact that highsec and nullsec are in no way symmetrical (you can do things in one area that you can't do in another) is exactly why you can't just casually compare stupid crap like missions and call it good.

baltec1 wrote:
Building titans is not a pve activity. Its not even a combat activity.


Industry is PvE.

It's only PvP in the sense that you can compare your own activity to what other players are doing and min/max your profits. But in that sense, every economic activity in the game, including ratting and missions, is PvP.....
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2811 - 2014-02-08 16:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pinky Hops wrote:
The fact that highsec and nullsec are in no way symmetrical (you can do things in one area that you can't do in another) is exactly why you can't just casually compare stupid crap like missions and call it good.
…but we're not “comparing missions”. We're comparing individual PvE income streams.

Why do you keep editing everyone's arguments?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2812 - 2014-02-08 16:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
The fact that highsec and nullsec are in no way symmetrical (you can do things in one area that you can't do in another) is exactly why you can't just casually compare stupid crap like missions and call it good.
…but we're not “comparing missions”. We're comparing individual PvE income streams.


Bolded, italicized, etc for emphasis.

Individual =

Combat PVE vs. Combat PVE
Industry vs. Industry
PI vs. PI
Alliance Level vs. Alliance Level

ED:

Individual !=

Person X in HS vs. Person Y in NS
Alliance X in HS vs. Alliance Y in NS

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2813 - 2014-02-08 16:31:49 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
nullsec is the space where alliances take sovereignty for no reason. their members then all cooperate together to build a titan, made from thousands of highsec-built large railguns taped together, for which the alliance pays each hauler several hundred million isk a day from ??? funding during the manufacturing period. the titan is used to take more space to build more titans. the end.

e: actually are the capital construction parts built onsite or shipped in?

e: this posting is getting worse and worse and i'm not helping, i'm going to bed


LOL Good night Benny!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2814 - 2014-02-08 16:31:58 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
You can build Titans in HighSec? I think you're going off on one of those tangents Tippia was accusing you of again.


The fact that highsec and nullsec are in no way symmetrical (you can do things in one area that you can't do in another) is exactly why you can't just casually compare stupid crap like missions and call it good.

baltec1 wrote:
Building titans is not a pve activity. Its not even a combat activity.


Industry is PvE.

It's only PvP in the sense that you can compare your own activity to what other players are doing and min/max your profits. But in that sense, every economic activity in the game, including ratting and missions, is PvP.....


Its indusry, not pve you do with guns, dont waste everyones time with stupidity.

Answer the question. What does null sov have in place of high sec level 4 missions?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2815 - 2014-02-08 16:32:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Cooperate to build
So not an individual PvE income stream. Try again.

What you're doing there is kind of like comparing two different jobs based on whether the local lunch restaurant has good chicken or not.


So anything that involves cooperation is not an individual income stream?

People in wormholes don't get individual income by cooperating in C6 sites? Roll
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2816 - 2014-02-08 16:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pinky Hops wrote:
Industry is PvE.
The environment offers exactly zero opposition, so no. It's PvP through and through.
Also, what baltec said.

Quote:
So anything that involves cooperation is not an individual income stream?
I have no idea where you got that notion from. Oh wait, I do: you're editing other people's arguments again.

Someone once said that if you run out of arguments and your final stand is to just twist the other guy's words into something different, you lost. It seems applicable to what you're doing right now…
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2817 - 2014-02-08 16:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Pinky Hops wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Cooperate to build
So not an individual PvE income stream. Try again.

What you're doing there is kind of like comparing two different jobs based on whether the local lunch restaurant has good chicken or not.


So anything that involves cooperation is not an individual income stream?

People in wormholes don't get individual income by cooperating in C6 sites? Roll


You're deliberately obtuse, I believe.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2818 - 2014-02-08 16:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Industry is PvE.
The environment offers exactly zero opposition, so no. It's PvP through and through.
Also, what baltec said.


It offers some opposition, just minimal amounts.

Somebody has to shoot the rocks. In the end, shooting rocks isn't that different from shooting red squares. In both cases, it's the poor people who do it.

Neither one offers much resistance.

Maybe you could name the rocks before you shoot them to make it more personal. You can pretend it's a real pirate, kind of like you can pretend the NPC ship you are shooting is a real pirate, and not just a few bits stored on a server.

Edit: I'd actually say the industry UI offers more resistance than most rats, so if anything, there is probably more PvE involved in industry than ratting. And yes, I do consider the UI to be part of the environment. Blink
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2819 - 2014-02-08 16:40:51 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Cooperate to build
So not an individual PvE income stream. Try again.

What you're doing there is kind of like comparing two different jobs based on whether the local lunch restaurant has good chicken or not.


So anything that involves cooperation is not an individual income stream?

People in wormholes don't get individual income by cooperating in C6 sites? Roll


Actually, this is you simply attempting to cloudy the discussion. In the past several pages you've bounced around between Combat PVE, industry including capital construction, and now W-Space.

Part of the reason we'd focused the discussion on just Combat PVE is to avoid this rampant cloudiness.

Pinky Hops wrote:
It's far too complicated of a situation to just stupidly reduce it to missions and ratting.


Which is exactly why we've segmented it out to missions vs. anoms (sorry Baltec, I gave the answer away).

All you're doing it trying to cloudy the discussion and make it murky again. We've spent 100+ pages unmurkifying this discussion. Try to stay on the topic that is being discussed please.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2820 - 2014-02-08 16:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pinky Hops wrote:
It offers some opposition, just minimal amounts.
”Minimal” as in “none”.

Quote:
Somebody has to shoot the rocks.
…which offer no opposition. The only opposition is from other players who are after the same resources, the same facilities, the same customers, the same ISK. You (a player) are being opposed by other players. This is commonly written in the short form of “PvE”

This as opposed to PvE, where the NPCs (a part of the “Environment” that is not controlled by players) you're shooting shoot back.


By the way, could you enumerate what sov null has in place of high sec level 4 missions?