EVE General Discussion

I don't see much wrong with blitzing by itself. It's a different, and for some people, entertaining way to run missions. Can the problem be solved by changing the value of LP? Could this be controlled by adding other sources for faction probes and nomad implants? (what else do thukker sell, shields, PDS?)

fw mission blitzing needs nerfing though

e: hell, why not make T2 probes worth using?

oh hay mara rinn and la nariz had already said 'another source for lp store items' two pages ago

that's what i get for skimming instead of reading properly

Tweaking the numbers in the LP store will only result in something else popping up in price elsewhere.

We need a move to player-owned industry. There have been other threads about this, but the general ideas are:

• Reduce the number of NPC activity lines (activity lines are ME/PE labs, copy slots, invention labs, assembly lines, etc)
• Increase the cost of NPC activity lines
• Increase the utility of POS assembly lines
• Fix POS roles so I can rent lines out to anyone in my alliance
• Ideally fix POS roles so I can rent lines out to anyone with ISK to rent them
• Convert refineries and reprocessing plants into activity lines (IMHO it should take about ⅓ as long to reprocess an item as it took to build it)

This "levels the playing field" between all regions of space so that a high station density in NPC space doesn't make that space more attractive for industrial use than space missing NPC facilities.

In addition, I would like to see mineral compression removed, or at least heavily nerfed.

Smart players will still be able to arrange their alliances logistics chains to do low-value assembly in hi sec (or simply contract it out to hi sec industrial corps, or play the market), putting the high-risk assembly deep in sovereign space. Y'know like they do now with CSAAs. Removing mineral compression will enhance local industry.

My naive theory being that when there's more pain hauling stuff from Jita than two systems over in null, more minerals will be sourced in null, and there will be more caravans of goods hauled from Jita, meaning more potential to disrupt operations. At present you can't interrupt null industry by interdicting a mining belt because they just haul stuff from Jita.

A further boost to player-driven industry would be:

• Remove NPC module drops entirely
• Add NPC "data fragment" or "equipment fragment" drops
• Replace data cores in exploration sites with data fragments
• Allow data fragments to be combined into data cores through research projects run through R&D agents
• Allow equipment fragments to be used in "invention" or "reverse engineering" style operations to produce high-meta T1 items
• Replace many of the "scrap metal" drops from NPCs with various equipment and data fragments as required

Thus no longer would you loot "Chemal's Modified Frobnozzle". You would loot a pile of "Chemal's frobnozzle fragments". You might combine these into a "Chemal's Frobnozzle Modification Specification", which you can then bake with a "Frobnozzle I" to produce "Chemal's Modified Frobnozzle."

At a lower level, no longer would Gist Warlords drop Experimental 100MN Afterburner, they'd drop Angel Cartel Afterburner Fragments. The entrepreneurial capsuleer would obtain these fragments to combine into an Angel Cartel Afterburner Specification, which could then be baked into a 100MN Afterburner I to produce the Experimental 100MN Afterburner. The same would apply for faction navy technology: production of Federation Navy Stasis Webifiers could be supported by people performing missions for the Caldari where they blow up Fed Navy ships and collect "Federation Propulsion Jamming Fragments".

The downside would be that your null sec ratter no longer get a 6B ISK jackpot every other month. The upside would be that people who are able to keep their manufactory safe for a month can produce a 6B ISK item. Invaders could also have the same privilege: steal the fragments from NPCs, or POSes or whatever, do the same production back in your own "safe" space.

The value of these items from LP stores will provide the initial drive to establish this industry, and this industry will then provide downward pressure on LP store value.

In my opinion, CCP shouldn't be required to "nerf" hi sec. The value of hi sec (which is currently an NPC-driven economy) should drop as a function of player activity. Industry should be player-driven, with NPC "safety nets".

So, from the latest dev blog we learn the stunning truth:

At least 3 popular ganking systems on the Jita route (Uedama, Madirmili, Niarja) had more "peeveepee" in them than tear-stained HED-GP.

And the popular mission hubs like Osmon beat them all.

Can you nerf hisec any further? I think no - it is a lot less safe than null as it is, and doing activities goons cry about is about 20% more dangerous than strolling around in HED-GP in NPC corp account.

Source: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65749/1/destruction2013.png

hahaha of course i'm just kidding,

we learned all that a long time ago

I don't like repeating myself on obvious things, but:

a) Autopilot or not does not matter for freighters: they get bumped off trying to warp away from the gate, which is the same for both autopiloted and manual piloted freighters. Because gankers, unless they're as bright as you are, assume the best haul won't be autopiloted.

b) The main goal of gankers were not freighters, but T1 industrials - they can be ganked solo and pay 50:1 to 100:1 rates on gank gain-loss ratio. Freighters, even hauling 10b worth of stuff, are about 10:1 to the cost and require effort to bring down, not to mention risk, which is something a ganker would never take, being the most risk-averse player of eve.

c) Mission hub ganking also happen mostly when target is bumped from station upon undocking. Last time I checked, dscan doesn't help much against that. The other form of the gank were a loophole with drone aggro and tractor units, in which case dscan weren't much help either.

Try again.

Is there a pamphlet or brochure somewhere on this? I feel like it would be negligent not to pursue solo 100:1 payouts.

This is what I care most about, that industry is in such a rotten position, and I agree that NPC services need to take a hit

I don't think that the number of NPC lines should ever feel limited. There should always be another line somewhere available for a newbie to use. The cost must increase, but should it be an ISK cost or some kind of mineral tax? How do we ensure that NPC lines will remain a viable option for the casual player or the newbie? (I'm looking at the production efficiency skill here. Right now, noone'll produce without it at five. I don't want NPC lines ever to be unprofitable to produce in.)

I think that perfect refine shouldn't be available anywhere in EVE, but that outposts come closest to achieving it, and highsec NPC refine rates should be farthest. I really want to see reasons for players to erect and fight over starbases! When the big industry rebalance comes through, it must take into consideration starbases as conflict drivers and ensure that any production efficiency starbases provide makes up for the increased risk of being wardecced and having to defend the tower.

Also if industry were to move more towards starbases, the mission grind to placing a starbase needs to go. A person who wants to make cargo expanders shouldn't have to shoot red crosses for forever to put a tower up in highsec.

Letters are yours.

a) First things first, you can web-warp your freighter. Hyena/Rapier can web-warp a freighter instantly; it is physically impossible for the bumper to get to your freighter in time as long as you do not screw up, and it's very hard to screw up. They can't even scan you in time, so they aren't even sure if you have anything valuable. Freighters in hi-sec are borderline ungankable if you know what you're doing, especially if you use a well-tanked Rapier that cannot be blapped off grid by a gank Tornado.
Beyond that, it's all about weighing the costs of what it takes to kill your freighter. 25 Catalysts can safely guarantee a gank if T2 fitted. Assume it costs 250mil ISK minimum, therefore. With 50% drops, the minimum freighter value to draw even over time is 500mil ISK. Assuming those Catalysts are just 2 multiboxing pilots, they will be looking at a minimum of 100mil ISK profit for the time and risk of ganking the freighter. Thus you will rarely see a freighter with less than 700mil ISK cargo ganked. In the past 4 months, I have not seen it happen (via killboards) on my 12-jump Jita trade route. This is also assuming Catalysts. Most freighter ganks are done by Talos and Brutix. If we do the math again, we'll find the minimum cargo for that is nearly 2bil ISK.

b) I can fit my Nereus to tank 48,000 omni EHP. Even with EM damage, it would take four Vexors to gank me. Assuming T1 fit this time (as it's more common), that's 80mil ISK in hull losses. 160mil ISK to draw even. Thus ~250mil ISK cargo value to be worth the time. Moving to a blockade runner, they now need 6 Vexors. Thus ~350mil ISK cargo value to be worth the time. On top of all that, they can only gank you if they have the 4-6 Vexors ready to go. Nearly all industrial gankers do not. Check the killboards, you will find nearly every indy gank is done by solo or duo pilots.
It gets better though: Orca. You can fit it for EHP, topping it out at 286,000 EHP. If we break down the math again, we'll find the minimum cargo value is close to 1bil ISK to be worth ganking by Catalysts. Talos/Brutix ganking an Orca need a minimum cargo value of nearly 3bil ISK to be worth the time.
Lastly, all haulers (including the Orca!) can do the cloak/MWD with the right setup. For the Orca, it has to be perfect. While I'm sure cloak/MWDers haulers have been caught before, it is extremely hard to do so and very risky (ISK) as you likely will not know what is in their cargo.

c) The MTU ganking is quite cheap and needs to be fixed. Mission hub bumping? If at undock, dock up again. If at redock, create a docking bookmark so you're in range every time. Flying T2 you don't have to do this as no one will gank you really... flying deadspace/officer, it's always best to be super safe.

Facepalm. Typical Tippia nonsense.
Those deaths are NOT easy to avoid. Avoiding those deaths require actual survival tactics, while all you need to do in null is yell "neutral on local, dock up" to dock all your bots for instant safety.
This discussion got even more stupid now, so I perhaps should repeat the double obvious things, especially since it's Tippia's nonsense I have to break again: People die not because they trip and break their neck, but because they're being genocided by an ever-growing force of no-risk pussies calling themselves pvpers, which are non-existent in low and null, where people are allowed to preemptively remove them from grid for good.
This is why it is obvious and now statistically proven that:
a) While considerable part of hisec is safe, so is considerable part of nullsec.
b) Money-making in nullsec is safe. Money-making in hisec is 20% less safe than a warzone in nullsec.