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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Ronny Hugo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2381 - 2014-02-05 14:43:15 UTC
I don't see why we would force people out of highsec. If you want a fight in lowsec/nullsec then you just attack something that is worth defending.
But anyways, what would happen if highsec was nerfed? Besides a portion of the player-base leaving? Don't really have a firm opinion, but I think wormholes would become more contested, and inflation would probably go up as people ratted way more. But after the initial learning phase, not a whole lot more ships would be lost in null and low. The fleets that gank smaller fleets would simply be larger, people would still have the exact same amount of ships to lose because income would in any case be lower unless suddenly all moons are towered (which in itself would not increase their wealth by too much due to T2 becoming cheaper). It would in essence nerf the nullsec income even more because more would be forced to make a living from moongoo.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2382 - 2014-02-05 14:43:29 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
So, Jenn aWhine, Baltec 1 and La 'I am a scientist' Nariz want CCP to nerf hi-sec because it would suit them...

CCP make it so, or not...


I am going to use that as my space boxing name.

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2383 - 2014-02-05 14:46:37 UTC
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2384 - 2014-02-05 14:49:25 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
I don't see why we would force people out of highsec. If you want a fight in lowsec/nullsec then you just attack something that is worth defending.
But anyways, what would happen if highsec was nerfed? Besides a portion of the player-base leaving? Don't really have a firm opinion, but I think wormholes would become more contested, and inflation would probably go up as people ratted way more. But after the initial learning phase, not a whole lot more ships would be lost in null and low. The fleets that gank smaller fleets would simply be larger, people would still have the exact same amount of ships to lose because income would in any case be lower unless suddenly all moons are towered (which in itself would not increase their wealth by too much due to T2 becoming cheaper). It would in essence nerf the nullsec income even more because more would be forced to make a living from moongoo.


We aren't trying to force people out of highsec we want to be able to have our isk making alts in nullsec instead of highsec.

We already have proof that highsec missions can pay: ~100m/hr.

We also have proof that nullsec anomaly ratting can pay: ~70m/hr.

These are both mid-range combat PVE activities and a glaring example of highsec not adhering to risk : reward.

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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#2385 - 2014-02-05 14:53:07 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...


Does not compute.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2386 - 2014-02-05 14:54:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.



I don't think you understand what was proposed:

(isk gained + loot + salvage + lp + bounties) / time to complete

If you increase the time to complete it will decrease the isk/hr and decrease income.

If you had actually read the thread before posting that botched abortion you'd see we moved on to:

Taking a good portion of reward from L3 and L4 then moving ~1/4 to L5, ~1/4 to L2 and ~2/4 to L1. It helps the newbies out because they have greater access to income while decreasing L3/L4 income. Its not a flat nerf either so it won't have a huge effect on the faucets/sinks.

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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#2387 - 2014-02-05 14:58:09 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.


have you been drinking? are time smores like time shares, but stickier?

pirate missions aren't in sov null and every defending character required to protect a pve'er represents one character's opportunity to pve lost
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2388 - 2014-02-05 15:22:22 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.



There are no missions in sov null.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2389 - 2014-02-05 15:25:34 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.


have you been drinking? are time smores like time shares, but stickier?


+1, this guy has to be high off his ass. This further demonstrates the imbalance because even high sec weed is better than null sec weed.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#2390 - 2014-02-05 15:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
I am all for isk nerf for high sec as soon as farming(pve) gameplay goes from and trust me I think about words I will use....pathetic,uninventfull without gameplay value boring and old as in outdated old and not fun to something that is better than just mentioned.

Than yeah do that and I won't care my isk fountain is getting nerfed and I will not drop my chars and go do something else.

Because contrary to popular belief that hi sec will move to become tidi overlord lap dogs it will not happen, I my self would rather stop bothering with this game.

So until then go back to your middle of no one care space and listen and be obedient fella.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2391 - 2014-02-05 15:32:53 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...


Does not compute.



The game automatically adjust the payout of missions based on the average time players take to complete them! The logner it takes.. the more LP you get. Its not a pre made value. That is why fast missiosn ahve very low LP payout

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#2392 - 2014-02-05 15:33:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
What this thread is is people proving there is a big problem with easy to obtain and repeatable numbers and the same old anti nerf highsec and anti goon mob throwing nothing but insults and ignoring all data. Rest assured that we will be providing these numbers to CCP not only on these forums but also via the CSM in their meetings and at fanfests round tables.


Didn't mean it as a diss or anything, just of the circular arguments that were going on in thread (now they stopped kinda), but yea it would really help if solid numbers were presented by CSM/CCP themselves to show everyone the data and explain any changes that would come.

Varius Xeral wrote:
Nullsec (and Lowsec, but that's an even bigger disaster) should not be seen as "PvP arenas" for people to blow ISK when bored of pointless grinding in Hisec


Funny that's exactly how I see those two places, even most in pirates low would agree with (well at least their high sec mission alts would )

Jenn aSide wrote:
reminding them that null sec isn't just a place for ships to go boom or for alliances to extract rent from, but someplace that many of us would actually like to have a reason to live in.


I guess that's a big problem for most, as you see the WH community mostly considers WH their home and take privilege in calling it that, so CCP kinda did a good job there, but do null/low sec player consider those places as their home too?


Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2393 - 2014-02-05 15:33:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.



There are no missions in sov null.



You know what I mean, places like delve and fountain have mission on the NPC stations that are INSIDE alliance held space. And yes it is NULL SEC.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2394 - 2014-02-05 15:35:29 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
I am all for isk nerf for high sec as soon as farming(pve) gameplay goes from and trust me I think about words I will use....pathetic,uninventfull without gameplay value boring and old as in outdated old and not fun to something that is better than just mentioned.


Considering that's PVE in every MMO, ever... you might want to try playing the real game instead.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2395 - 2014-02-05 15:35:54 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Whnat I find funny is the lack of minimal coprehension of these null se cpeopel why the rewards are high. If you make the missions take logner than the payout per mission will automatically increase...

if you make less LP be gained.. then the value of LP will increase!
Fact is .. there is a perceived value of the things you can buy from the LP store. If people want to pay a lot for these LP that are made in high sec, its not for CCP to nerf it.1

Its the fault of the 0.0 WHINY COWARDS chikens that never for example run SoE missiosn in their superior system for those. Its their fault for not using their so called SUPERIOR forces that cannot be dfefeated to ensure the best constellations are safe, so that they run Pirate missiosn to make SEVERAL TIME SMORE isk per hour than 0.0.

Whatever you do to proove you can do X milliosnepr hours in high sec, can be automatically applyed to run missions in 0.0. And the payout there is massively higher (pirate missions).

I lived in 0.0 and ran missiosn in apanake. I am way more paranoid in apanake than when I lived in Period Basis.


have you been drinking? are time smores like time shares, but stickier?

pirate missions aren't in sov null and every defending character required to protect a pve'er represents one character's opportunity to pve lost



You are the one pretending to be dumb. You know what I mean. Run missions in the NPC stations in certain regions of 0.0.

And you know anyoen with a brian does not put peopel to GUARD pve. PVPer worht their salt shoudl work to make their livign region too dangerous to trespassers jsut because that will be fun for the pvper.

If your region is too dangerous for PVE, then your alliance sov holdign is FAIl and is proof that NULL SEC is the one that needs nerfing, because you can hold territory taht you do not effectively control

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2396 - 2014-02-05 15:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kagura Nikon wrote:

You know what I mean, places like delve and fountain have mission on the NPC stations that are INSIDE alliance held space. And yes it is NULL SEC.


So your answer to the problem with null sov space is to get the tens of thousands of pilots to cram into less than 100 systems in NPC null space?

You think that is the answer?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2397 - 2014-02-05 15:42:44 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

If your region is too dangerous for PVE, then your alliance sov holdign is FAIl and is proof that NULL SEC is the one that needs nerfing, because you can hold territory taht you do not effectively control


Well, that or it's proof that cloaking devices exist.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2398 - 2014-02-05 15:44:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

You know what I mean, places like delve and fountain have mission on the NPC stations that are INSIDE alliance held space. And yes it is NULL SEC.


So your answer to the problem with null sov space is to get the tens of thousands of pilots to cram into less than 100 systems in null space?

You think that is the answer?



Nope.. just pointing that you cannot claim high sec pays as much as 0.0. 0.0 has superior payout options.

You can complain altough that 0.0 capacity for that type of things has been overrun by current 0.0 population and need expansion.

Or you could go for the them you guys are defending, and be the leet superior dudes that can control those areas with few peopel (because you are untitled superiors aren you) and have enough for your alliance to make a LOT of money.

Just stop complaining of the WRONG thing.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2399 - 2014-02-05 15:45:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


You know what I mean, places like delve and fountain have mission on the NPC stations that are INSIDE alliance held space. And yes it is NULL SEC.


Look at what you are doing. Notorious Fellon did pretty much the same thing with the "there are more ways to make isk than shoot red Xs" thing.

It's an attempt to deflect from the issue. Why would we be arguing for the games risk/reward scheme to be fixed if we're just gonna go be happy with doing pve elsewhere. WE ARE ALREADY DOING PVE IN HIGH SEC, that's the problem

Yes there are missions in NPC null. Does the existence of mission agents in NPC null mean it's perfectly ok for SOV null (that people actually fight over) to be broken in terms of pve risk/reward?

What you are saying here is like "if you get a flat tire, instead of fixing it why don't you just drive another car?". It's dumb.

It's sad to me that the denial is so strong in some that it totally turns of your ability to reason.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2400 - 2014-02-05 15:47:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

If your region is too dangerous for PVE, then your alliance sov holdign is FAIl and is proof that NULL SEC is the one that needs nerfing, because you can hold territory taht you do not effectively control


Well, that or it's proof that cloaking devices exist.



Same level or danger as gankers in high sec (proportionally to population I mean)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"