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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2361 - 2014-02-05 06:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
E-2C Tardeye wrote:

Start here look these words up and their definition as it pertains to testing. This is just a few item.

Establishment/Desirability of repeatability/Attribute Agreement Analysis for Defect Databases/Accuracy/Accuracy and Precision/Reproducibility.

Not only this and the credibility issue but any test done can never be done under a controlled environment.

Example: Your ratting in null-sec and roaming gang comes thru you have to pos up.
Example: Your ratting in null rare drops or you get an escalation.
Example: You can chain belts or run anomalies or combo of both.
Example: You can scan sites run 10/10 sites with friends etc….

Example: You can get griefed can flipped ganked while in hi-sec etc.

Control of the testing environment is not there.

Next just briefly look at the endless scenarios for SP and ship set up and modules.

The average eve player can fly xyz with abc SP etc…. All variables you cant account for or test for.

So even though I work for a week in Null and look at my wallet then work for a week in Hi-sec and look at my wallet I see I made more isk per week per hr in Null I know there are to many variables to provide reliable repeatable data. I can average the two over a span of time to get a better average but its just that.


So what do we have? CCP because they have access to the data can look at total isk earned and where it was earned and have total average numbers from all the players in EVE.

CCP took that data and nerfed null-sec. They may make more nerfs or adjustments regardless I will continue to seek out that part of the sandbox where I can make the best isk/hr not sit here and cry for the game to change to meet my needs.


Literally copying random words from wikipedia and telling me I'm wrong. Bind faith in CCP and a fallacy of CCP did it so it is right. Something we've already educated you otherwise of as well as using circular arguing. Won't define the "credibility issue."

So because you can't account for all variables the study is invalid. Explain to me how any clinical trials are valid experiments then, since you cannot control/know every single variable in them yet the scientific community considers them valid?

If you read the sheet now so kindly linked in my sig you'd see I do have a controlled environment for these tests. I also retest when one of the runs gets screwed up by something and I report all of the data.

You still have that question block to answer as well.

Quote:

You are the living embodiment of a ~~~~o7o7o7o7m8m8m8m8 Highsec Tantrum m8m8m8m8o7o7o7o7~~~~.

If you want to prove that is not the case you can answer these questions in complete sentences keeping only one question answered per sentence:

What variables am I unable to control for that affect the experiment?

How does the experiment lack "specific monitoring?"

What specific parameters of the test are a problem?

What makes me bias?

Where is the bias in this experimental procedure?

Why am I completely devoid of credibility?

How is this method not reproducible?

How is this method not precise?

How is this method not accurate?

No statistical methods were used so how is it invalid for statistical errors?

Nothing is stopping you from performing the same experiment I did, why have you resorted to poop flinging instead of actually attempting to discredit me?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2362 - 2014-02-05 07:02:45 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
All that aside even if you over look all the specific areas that you fail to address with your so called test the biggest road block for me is your total and complete inability to conduct a test not only from a proffesional and knowledge level but from your inability to conduct any test from an unbiased perspective.

Nothing you could say…nothing you could do would grant you the credibility that you lack. This lack of credibility isn’t something that someone has done to you but its something you have done to yourself.


You'll have to explain in more detail to the numbskulls like myself. Publish your methodology and experimental results and show us why La Nariz is using a flawed methodology producing nonsensical results.

Show, don't tell.

Because if telling is enough to go on, I have three Erebus titans to sell you for the paltry sum of 50B ISK each, payable in advance.

Start here look these words up and their definition as it pertains to testing. This is just a few item.

Establishment/Desirability of repeatability/Attribute Agreement Analysis for Defect Databases/Accuracy/Accuracy and Precision/Reproducibility.

Not only this and the credibility issue but any test done can never be done under a controlled environment.

Example: Your ratting in null-sec and roaming gang comes thru you have to pos up.
Example: Your ratting in null rare drops or you get an escalation.
Example: You can chain belts or run anomalies or combo of both.
Example: You can scan sites run 10/10 sites with friends etc….

Example: You can get griefed can flipped ganked while in hi-sec etc.

Control of the testing environment is not there.

Next just briefly look at the endless scenarios for SP and ship set up and modules.

The average eve player can fly xyz with abc SP etc…. All variables you cant account for or test for.

So even though I work for a week in Null and look at my wallet then work for a week in Hi-sec and look at my wallet I see I made more isk per week per hr in Null I know there are to many variables to provide reliable repeatable data. I can average the two over a span of time to get a better average but its just that.


So what do we have? CCP because they have access to the data can look at total isk earned and where it was earned and have total average numbers from all the players in EVE.

CCP took that data and nerfed null-sec. They may make more nerfs or adjustments regardless I will continue to seek out that part of the sandbox where I can make the best isk/hr not sit here and cry for the game to change to meet my needs.



You are so full of it that is actually hurts.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2363 - 2014-02-05 07:09:44 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Tardeye wrote:

Start here look these words up and their definition as it pertains to testing. This is just a few item.

Establishment/Desirability of repeatability/Attribute Agreement Analysis for Defect Databases/Accuracy/Accuracy and Precision/Reproducibility.

Not only this and the credibility issue but any test done can never be done under a controlled environment.

Example: Your ratting in null-sec and roaming gang comes thru you have to pos up.
Example: Your ratting in null rare drops or you get an escalation.
Example: You can chain belts or run anomalies or combo of both.
Example: You can scan sites run 10/10 sites with friends etc….

Example: You can get griefed can flipped ganked while in hi-sec etc.

Control of the testing environment is not there.

Next just briefly look at the endless scenarios for SP and ship set up and modules.

The average eve player can fly xyz with abc SP etc…. All variables you cant account for or test for.

So even though I work for a week in Null and look at my wallet then work for a week in Hi-sec and look at my wallet I see I made more isk per week per hr in Null I know there are to many variables to provide reliable repeatable data. I can average the two over a span of time to get a better average but its just that.


So what do we have? CCP because they have access to the data can look at total isk earned and where it was earned and have total average numbers from all the players in EVE.

CCP took that data and nerfed null-sec. They may make more nerfs or adjustments regardless I will continue to seek out that part of the sandbox where I can make the best isk/hr not sit here and cry for the game to change to meet my needs.


Literally copying random words from wikipedia and telling me I'm wrong. Bind faith in CCP and a fallacy of CCP did it so it is right. Something we've already educated you otherwise of as well as using circular arguing. Won't define the "credibility issue."

So because you can't account for all variables the study is invalid. Explain to me how any clinical trials are valid experiments then, since you cannot control/know every single variable in them yet the scientific community considers them valid?

If you read the sheet now so kindly linked in my sig you'd see I do have a controlled environment for these tests. I also retest when one of the runs gets screwed up by something and I report all of the data.

You still have that question block to answer as well.

Quote:

You are the living embodiment of a ~~~~o7o7o7o7m8m8m8m8 Highsec Tantrum m8m8m8m8o7o7o7o7~~~~.

If you want to prove that is not the case you can answer these questions in complete sentences keeping only one question answered per sentence:

What variables am I unable to control for that affect the experiment?

How does the experiment lack "specific monitoring?"

What specific parameters of the test are a problem?

What makes me bias?

Where is the bias in this experimental procedure?

Why am I completely devoid of credibility?

How is this method not reproducible?

How is this method not precise?

How is this method not accurate?

No statistical methods were used so how is it invalid for statistical errors?

Nothing is stopping you from performing the same experiment I did, why have you resorted to poop flinging instead of actually attempting to discredit me?

Ok let me dumb it down even more then. lets say you are in fact Albert Einstein reincarnated and do in fact have all the knowledge and skill required to setup and conduct your testing to a professional level that couldn’t be touched by those at M.I.T/NASA etc..

Sorry but you still lack the objectiveness and credibility. Nothing changes that.

To produce data even remotely accurate would require months of testing. I would rather play the game not make it a job.

Ill take the data CCP has provided which is evident by the nerfing of null-sec.
Powers Sa
#2364 - 2014-02-05 07:21:59 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
You know, this thread gets more hysterical every day.

Let' assume for a second that the lies being told by the null sec propagandists are true, and high sec makes vastly more per hour that null sec, and null sec needs high sec alts to finance the multi-trillion ISK losses of 100 billion ISK ships in null sec systems over null sec stations.

Maybe CCP WANTS to force all these destitute null sec players worth hundreds of billions to KEEP their high sec alts.
Otherwise, all those null sec players will just finance their trillion ISK battles with null sec chars, and CCP loses tens of thousands of subs.

Because, clearly, if someone new to Eve read this thread, they would quickly realize that every null sec player paid for their hundred billion ISK ship through high sec mission running, not by running anoms in null, and those high sec alts would be quickly unsubbed if poor poor null sec even gained parity with rich fat high sec, let alone was better.

Yeah null sec, keep spinning your lies.

The only person lying in this thread is you.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2365 - 2014-02-05 07:29:05 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Tardeye wrote:

Start here look these words up and their definition as it pertains to testing. This is just a few item.

Establishment/Desirability of repeatability/Attribute Agreement Analysis for Defect Databases/Accuracy/Accuracy and Precision/Reproducibility.

Not only this and the credibility issue but any test done can never be done under a controlled environment.

Example: Your ratting in null-sec and roaming gang comes thru you have to pos up.
Example: Your ratting in null rare drops or you get an escalation.
Example: You can chain belts or run anomalies or combo of both.
Example: You can scan sites run 10/10 sites with friends etc….

Example: You can get griefed can flipped ganked while in hi-sec etc.

Control of the testing environment is not there.

Next just briefly look at the endless scenarios for SP and ship set up and modules.

The average eve player can fly xyz with abc SP etc…. All variables you cant account for or test for.

So even though I work for a week in Null and look at my wallet then work for a week in Hi-sec and look at my wallet I see I made more isk per week per hr in Null I know there are to many variables to provide reliable repeatable data. I can average the two over a span of time to get a better average but its just that.


So what do we have? CCP because they have access to the data can look at total isk earned and where it was earned and have total average numbers from all the players in EVE.

CCP took that data and nerfed null-sec. They may make more nerfs or adjustments regardless I will continue to seek out that part of the sandbox where I can make the best isk/hr not sit here and cry for the game to change to meet my needs.


Literally copying random words from wikipedia and telling me I'm wrong. Bind faith in CCP and a fallacy of CCP did it so it is right. Something we've already educated you otherwise of as well as using circular arguing. Won't define the "credibility issue."

So because you can't account for all variables the study is invalid. Explain to me how any clinical trials are valid experiments then, since you cannot control/know every single variable in them yet the scientific community considers them valid?

If you read the sheet now so kindly linked in my sig you'd see I do have a controlled environment for these tests. I also retest when one of the runs gets screwed up by something and I report all of the data.

You still have that question block to answer as well.

Quote:

You are the living embodiment of a ~~~~o7o7o7o7m8m8m8m8 Highsec Tantrum m8m8m8m8o7o7o7o7~~~~.

If you want to prove that is not the case you can answer these questions in complete sentences keeping only one question answered per sentence:

What variables am I unable to control for that affect the experiment?

How does the experiment lack "specific monitoring?"

What specific parameters of the test are a problem?

What makes me bias?

Where is the bias in this experimental procedure?

Why am I completely devoid of credibility?

How is this method not reproducible?

How is this method not precise?

How is this method not accurate?

No statistical methods were used so how is it invalid for statistical errors?

Nothing is stopping you from performing the same experiment I did, why have you resorted to poop flinging instead of actually attempting to discredit me?

Ok let me dumb it down even more then. lets say you are in fact Albert Einstein reincarnated and do in fact have all the knowledge and skill required to setup and conduct your testing to a professional level that couldn’t be touched by those at M.I.T/NASA etc..

Sorry but you still lack the objectiveness and credibility. Nothing changes that.

To produce data even remotely accurate would require months of testing. I would rather play the game not make it a job.

Ill take the data CCP has provided which is evident by the nerfing of null-sec.


This from a guy that has barely manged to type anything sort of baseless rants for like 6 pages.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2366 - 2014-02-05 07:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
La Nariz wrote:
Before I forget there is something you can do to help out here if you're willing.

I need something similar to what I've done in nullsec for highsec mission running: one run blitzing without salvage/loot, one run blitzing with salvage/loot, one run full clear without salvage/loot, and one run full clear with salvage/loot.

If you can do any of those it would be great.


Tonight is Internet Free Night (i.e.: "us time") but Thursday/Friday/Saturday I should be able to collect details. I'll post raw stuff here on the thread, which will be of the following form (whitespace outside strings optional):

"Mission", "Accepted", "Handin", "Bounties", "Reward ISK", "Reward LP", "Salvage Points", "Blitzed", "Arrived", "Left"
"Vengeance", "23:45", "00:10", 21854233, 1950000, 5000, 20, "Y", "23:59", "00:03"

The bounties & reward ISK will be units of ISK, Reward LP is units of LP, salvage points is floor(in-game estimated value / 1000000) ISK because that's the way Pro Synergy estimates points. Accepted, Handin, Arrived, Left will be unspecified TZ wall clock time, 24hr clock, wrapping over at midnight. Don't expect mission completion time to be meaningful. I won't be recording time in warp vs time in mission, but I will record the time I arrived at the mission space and initiated warp out after completion, though I won't be focussed on the mission-running if external priorities demand my attention. You should be able to estimate mission completion times from minimum time to complete a specific mission.

I won't skip missions except for anti-faction ones. You'll get your blitzed vs full-clear values by checking for Blitzed being "Y" or "N". I may forget to record missions, for which I'll insert rows with the mission name, actual values where I can recover them, and empty columns where I have no data e.g.:

"Vengeance", , "01:15", 5436000, 1500000, , , "N", ,

So that's the expected data format, number crunchers can warm up their analysis engines :) Be prepared for column positions to shift. Take your cues from the title row.

I'll be flying in Lanngisi (0.5). My standings with the agent are 9.9. So adjust/compensate mission rewards as required. If someone can recommend decent FRAPS-style software for OS X, I may even record my sessions for later analysis. I'll post the DPS as estimated by the in-game fitting window, just in case that matters.

Data collection will end when I get bored of playing, or if my ship gets destroyed (because I'll be busy crying in the corner or whatever hi sec care bears like me are supposed to do when we lose our ships).

There won't be a huge amount of data, expect 6-12 missions each night, with a couple of dozen over the weekend.

Okay, I suck at exporting CSV format. Here's some stuff from tonight:

Mission,Accepted,Handin,Bounties,Reward ISK,Reward LP,Bonus ISK,Salvage Points,Blitzed,Arrived,Left
Gone Berserk,19:51,20:04,5500000,1260000,5130,1240000,0,Y,,20:02
Angel Extravaganza,20:05,20:50,19000000,2190000,8836,1820000,,N,20:09,20:48
The Blockade,20:52,21:09,6600000,1890000,8836,2120000,0,Y,20:55,21:08
Smash The Supplier,,,,,,,,,,
Smuggler Interception,21:12,21:34,7366443,1510000,6767,1220000,,N,21:15,21:32
The Assault,21:37,21:51,3824813,2030000,8836,2010000,0,Y,21:40,21:50
Smash The Supplier,,,,,,,,,,

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2367 - 2014-02-05 07:45:15 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Start here look these words up and their definition as it pertains to testing.


Stop right there!

We are not testing we are observing. There is no control set.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Example: Your ratting in null-sec and roaming gang comes thru you have to pos up.
Example: Your ratting in null rare drops or you get an escalation.
Example: You can chain belts or run anomalies or combo of both.
Example: You can scan sites run 10/10 sites with friends etc….

Example: You can get griefed can flipped ganked while in hi-sec etc.


You need to figure out what you are looking for. If you are interested in maximum potential income, you can "control" for disruptions by eliminating the records from your observations where disruptions happened. Another option is to adjust by taking the average of the N shortest operations. Thus if I managed 10 iterations and you see four iterations that took 15 minutes with 6 having times from twenty minutes to twenty hours, you can take the four shortest iterations as indicative of the actual time required.

If the collection method is explained, you can determine what value can be inferred from the collected data.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
So what do we have? CCP because they have access to the data can look at total isk earned and where it was earned and have total average numbers from all the players in EVE.


CCP do have access to a lot of data. They do not record everything (though I suspect they record a lot that is interesting). You make a false assumption about the data that CCP record, and you make a provably and demonstrably false assumption that CCP are infallible.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
CCP took that data and nerfed null-sec.


CCP reacted in a way that was constrained to existing methods they had for controlling the apparent problem, then rationalised the action they took by suggesting that "null sec would fight over the most valuable space." It turns out that null sec residents don't run the wars, the alliance leadership does. So null sec didn't fight over the most valuable ratting space, because ratting doesn't effect null sec alliance income. Nullsec did fight over two changes to moon goo, because moon goo very much does effect null sec alliance income. So CCP made a huge mistake by misattribution of the motive for war in null sec.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2368 - 2014-02-05 07:50:09 UTC
Correct a lot of alliances installed ratting taxes on the corps themselves to make up for moon goo short falls.

R64 are nothing compared to what tech was and the isk has to come from somewhere.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2369 - 2014-02-05 08:23:04 UTC
No point in nerfing highsec until sov is fixed.

Kill the rental empires first.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2370 - 2014-02-05 08:39:46 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Is that like a null-sec version of Pro Synergy?



So sell the bookmarks to a newbie for a couple mil, he makes more than the sell price and you get more than if you just left the field everyone wins.[/quote]

That's basically the null sec version of Pro Synergy then. Except with Pro Synergy you contract the BMs for free, then get a 45% split of the proceeds from the salvage.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2371 - 2014-02-05 08:42:22 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
No point in nerfing highsec until sov is fixed.

Kill the rental empires first.


Hurf.

Blurf.

That's literally what you just said.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Josef Djugashvilis
#2372 - 2014-02-05 08:43:43 UTC
So, Jenn aWhine, Baltec 1 and La 'I am a scientist' Nariz want CCP to nerf hi-sec because it would suit them...

CCP make it so, or not...

This is not a signature.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#2373 - 2014-02-05 08:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
So, Jenn aWhine, Baltec 1 and La 'I am a scientist' Nariz want CCP to nerf hi-sec because it would suit them...

CCP make it so, or not...


and on that day (and every other day) CCP gave no fucks whatsoever.
people say miners whine, this thread is a fountain of tears! although quite subtle.

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2374 - 2014-02-05 12:44:25 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
So, Jenn aWhine, Baltec 1 and La 'I am a scientist' Nariz want CCP to nerf hi-sec because it would suit them...

CCP make it so, or not...


and on that day (and every other day) CCP gave no fucks whatsoever.
people say miners whine, this thread is a fountain of tears! although quite subtle.


What this thread is is people proving there is a big problem with easy to obtain and repeatable numbers and the same old anti nerf highsec and anti goon mob throwing nothing but insults and ignoring all data. Rest assured that we will be providing these numbers to CCP not only on these forums but also via the CSM in their meetings and at fanfests round tables.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2375 - 2014-02-05 13:36:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
So, Jenn aWhine, Baltec 1 and La 'I am a scientist' Nariz want CCP to nerf hi-sec because it would suit them...

CCP make it so, or not...


and on that day (and every other day) CCP gave no fucks whatsoever.
people say miners whine, this thread is a fountain of tears! although quite subtle.


What this thread is is people proving there is a big problem with easy to obtain and repeatable numbers and the same old anti nerf highsec and anti goon mob throwing nothing but insults and ignoring all data. Rest assured that we will be providing these numbers to CCP not only on these forums but also via the CSM in their meetings and at fanfests round tables.


And that's the power of the truth. Their denial of something that actually is, that can actually be tested and reproduced and reported, means nothing. That's what ticks them off, deep down they know this, and they know that as slow as CCP can be to fix things, (like the 4 years it took to fix the lvl 5 bug) it will eventually get fixed.

One of the founding principles of this game is "the greater the risk, the greater the reward". I don't think CCP deliberately screwed that up balance (in some tinfoil-esque attempt to get people to have high sec alts), I think that since their focus is PVP, they honestly don't understand what's happened to the PVE aspect of the game. While PVE isn't the focus, it is an important part of the game because it not only can serve as a catalyst for pvp, but it's also a source of supply (that enables pvp).

The job of those of us on the right side of this issue is to keep reminding CCP of this, reminding them that null sec isn't just a place for ships to go boom or for alliances to extract rent from, but someplace that many of us would actually like to have a reason to live in.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2376 - 2014-02-05 13:45:09 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Start here look these words up and their definition as it pertains to testing.


Stop right there!

We are not testing we are observing. There is no control set.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Example: Your ratting in null-sec and roaming gang comes thru you have to pos up.
Example: Your ratting in null rare drops or you get an escalation.
Example: You can chain belts or run anomalies or combo of both.
Example: You can scan sites run 10/10 sites with friends etc….

Example: You can get griefed can flipped ganked while in hi-sec etc.


You need to figure out what you are looking for. If you are interested in maximum potential income, you can "control" for disruptions by eliminating the records from your observations where disruptions happened. Another option is to adjust by taking the average of the N shortest operations. Thus if I managed 10 iterations and you see four iterations that took 15 minutes with 6 having times from twenty minutes to twenty hours, you can take the four shortest iterations as indicative of the actual time required.

If the collection method is explained, you can determine what value can be inferred from the collected data.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
So what do we have? CCP because they have access to the data can look at total isk earned and where it was earned and have total average numbers from all the players in EVE.


CCP do have access to a lot of data. They do not record everything (though I suspect they record a lot that is interesting). You make a false assumption about the data that CCP record, and you make a provably and demonstrably false assumption that CCP are infallible.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
CCP took that data and nerfed null-sec.


CCP reacted in a way that was constrained to existing methods they had for controlling the apparent problem, then rationalised the action they took by suggesting that "null sec would fight over the most valuable space." It turns out that null sec residents don't run the wars, the alliance leadership does. So null sec didn't fight over the most valuable ratting space, because ratting doesn't effect null sec alliance income. Nullsec did fight over two changes to moon goo, because moon goo very much does effect null sec alliance income. So CCP made a huge mistake by misattribution of the motive for war in null sec.


Lol please by all means play the game or waste your time as you see fit. I will not discourage you from trying to play scientist with La naz. To each is own. This is CCP’s game and to think they don’t have access to all their own data would be more than presumptuous on your part.

CCP hired a degreed economist to run the economy of Eve Granted a degree in economics doesn’t mean they are perfect but it does give them an advantage over forum trolls playing a kids game trying to pretend we all know better and pretending we are all smarter. We are not.

I feel confident CCP keeps important data like where and how the iskies are being made. I also believe they just didn’t wake up one day and go yea…. Think I will **** off null bears today and nerf null income.

At the end of the day I know where I have made the bulk of my isk. Should this change then I will change with it.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2377 - 2014-02-05 13:49:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
... but also via the CSM in their meetings and at fanfests round tables.


And that's the power of the truth.

yea, million of alts can't be wrong Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2378 - 2014-02-05 13:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
baltec1 wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
So, Jenn aWhine, Baltec 1 and La 'I am a scientist' Nariz want CCP to nerf hi-sec because it would suit them...

CCP make it so, or not...


and on that day (and every other day) CCP gave no fucks whatsoever.
people say miners whine, this thread is a fountain of tears! although quite subtle.


What this thread is is people proving there is a big problem with easy to obtain and repeatable numbers and the same old anti nerf highsec and anti goon mob throwing nothing but insults and ignoring all data. Rest assured that we will be providing these numbers to CCP not only on these forums but also via the CSM in their meetings and at fanfests round tables.

That's what I am afraid of. The whispering into dev 's ears while in "HAPPY" bars.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#2379 - 2014-02-05 13:52:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The job of those of us on the right side of this issue is to keep reminding CCP of this, reminding them that null sec isn't just a place for ships to go boom or for alliances to extract rent from, but someplace that many of us would actually like to have a reason to live in.


More than that, all that PvP ultimately relies on the average Joe Nullsec wanting to be there and feeling that his little slice of space is worth fighting for. Nullsec (and Lowsec, but that's an even bigger disaster) should not be seen as "PvP arenas" for people to blow ISK when bored of pointless grinding in Hisec. That route leads to stagnation and death. All security space should have gameplay and risk/reward balances suited to the various playstyles that Eve can accommodate, and which create a compelling sense of identity derived from the cooperation with and competition between other players.

The incredibly vocal and incredibly minor forum warriors who try to perpetuate their paranoid delusions of some war between types of players represent no one but their own narrow self-interest. The rest of us understand that Eve is a complex and intertwined ecosystem, where what happens everywhere has an impact everywhere else, and game mechanics should be geared toward the greatest amount of enjoyment for the greatest amount of players.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2380 - 2014-02-05 14:39:47 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Ok let me dumb it down even more then. lets say you are in fact Albert Einstein reincarnated and do in fact have all the knowledge and skill required to setup and conduct your testing to a professional level that couldn’t be touched by those at M.I.T/NASA etc..

Sorry but you still lack the objectiveness and credibility. Nothing changes that.

To produce data even remotely accurate would require months of testing. I would rather play the game not make it a job.

Ill take the data CCP has provided which is evident by the nerfing of null-sec.


CCP provided no data they had contradictory reasoning for doing it in the first place. When your economist says the economy is fine and your dev makes an excuse to implement a crappy deployable without providing data showing its true there's an issue.

Quote:

You are the living embodiment of a ~~~~o7o7o7o7m8m8m8m8 Highsec Tantrum m8m8m8m8o7o7o7o7~~~~.

If you want to prove that is not the case you can answer these questions in complete sentences keeping only one question answered per sentence:

What variables am I unable to control for that affect the experiment?

How does the experiment lack "specific monitoring?"

What specific parameters of the test are a problem?

What makes me bias?

Where is the bias in this experimental procedure?

Why am I completely devoid of credibility?

How is this method not reproducible?

How is this method not precise?

How is this method not accurate?

No statistical methods were used so how is it invalid for statistical errors?

Nothing is stopping you from performing the same experiment I did, why have you resorted to poop flinging instead of actually attempting to discredit me?

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