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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2321 - 2014-02-05 02:20:56 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


You notice you are te only one talking about a "major isk faucet"?

Why do you refuse to even understand what is being said?

Oh, I understand. The Null cheer brigade are trying to destroy High Sec by cherry picking statistics like they always do and denying the figures from CCP that don't agree with them. That's what is being said in reality.


The figures from CCP are about ISK faucets.

The figures from stoicfaux & co are about ISK/hr income from mission blitzing, the majority of which comes from LP-to-ISK conversion. LP stores are an ISK sink.

What matters to null sec pilots is not whether their income source is an ISK faucet or ISK sink. What matters to null sec pilots is how much ISK appears in their wallet per hour of effort at keyboard.

What would interest me is if Alliances could set up their own LP stores, and deploy their own ESS so that rather than collecting, say, Caldari Navy LP in addition to ISK the ratters would be paid entirely in alliance LP, which could then be used to buy alliance "charters" for POS fuel, or various generated items similar to the Caldari Navy LP store where the ISK is absorbed by the NPC entity responsible for the LP store (or dare I use the term "establishment") with a percentage going to the alliance coffers (or at least the corporation nominated as responsible for the station).

Thus you could significantly boost null sec ISK-in-wallets-per-hour without introducing new ISK faucets by adjusting the ESS conversion of bounty ISK to bounty LP.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2322 - 2014-02-05 02:22:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Quote:
Currently ganker profitability isn't much of a factor when "tears" are so valued. IF you want 100m an hour though you're going to need some bling.



This is not true. My incursion Basilisk is not blingy, and the most expensive thijng on my mach is the mach itself. If yuo don't think Machs are common mission ships, I will be happy to direct you to the Lanngisi undock.


Did I miss the part where this went from level 4 missions to incursions?

Mr Epeen Cool
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2323 - 2014-02-05 02:28:08 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Did I miss the part where this went from level 4 missions to incursions?

Mr Epeen Cool


The entire thread is about "nerfing hi sec". So pointing out that you can make 100M ISK/hr from incursions in a sub-500M ISK ship is fair game.

Of course nobody is talking about the elephant in the room which is the market. You can make far more ISK simply station trading in a market hub than endlessly running missions anywhere. One profitable activity available to nullseccers with a jump freighter is to haul stuff from hi sec to popular stations and sell them at a markup on Jita prices (unless you're in one of those communist alliances that insists on stuff being sold at or below Jita prices).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Taranogas 3rd
Doomheim
#2324 - 2014-02-05 02:57:00 UTC
I like how this thread degenerated from people arguing (like the first 20 pages) to just null seccers talking to each other and speculating how to nerf high sec, oh nvm the entire thread was like that.

There were some pretty good arguments against nerfing high sec, but sadly they have now drowned in the sea of null tears, and ofc the "we have the data just go look it up, but we won't show it to you".

Seriously how did this horrible thread reach 125 pages? literally every month we have someone whining about high sec and you all say miners and carebears whine the most?

125 pages? in less than a month? congratulations really, now please tell me who whines more, because as I see it the post ratio here is 5:1 (nullbear on carebear)

But please do continue, i'm sure this discussion will reach an end point at page 252.
Just accept that no matter how much income null sec makes (for an individual pilot because I see no major pilot actually whining except the grunts of null), you're too much of a coward to make isk in null unless the entire region is completely and utterly safe (which is why you supposedly go to high sec) you conglomerated into huge ass coalitions, unable to offer resources to each pilot individually to "do his thing", whine when others take your resources, while your supposed leaders have trillions of isk, but hey at least you got SRP yet you whine, please tell me why do even need the isk since everything your alliances needed is basically funded, or wait are you gonna tell me guys fund fuels and SRP by missioning in high sec? hahahha, Do you solo pvp that much? do you go out on roams to what exactly? shoot blues?

The fact of the matter is instead of whining, and if all your illusions are true you should "enjoy" that you're making isk in such safety to fund your, supposedly nothing, and if you tell me that you don't like it because there's no risk, then you're a hypocrite because you don't even go to make isk in null now because of how much risk there is, just wait, it's 95% blue doughnut, what have you got to be afraid off ? lol.
ashley Eoner
#2325 - 2014-02-05 02:58:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Quote:
Currently ganker profitability isn't much of a factor when "tears" are so valued. IF you want 100m an hour though you're going to need some bling.



This is not true. My incursion Basilisk is not blingy, and the most expensive thijng on my mach is the mach itself. If yuo don't think Machs are common mission ships, I will be happy to direct you to the Lanngisi undock.
You're not doing +110m isk an hour in a purely t2 fitted mach either.


How was your incursion income during the days when there were no incursion? Fortunately a site popped up last night and it seems one popped up today. Lets see how long those last.

Also how long are you waiting and how many sites are you clearing an hour? Which group are you running with?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2326 - 2014-02-05 03:00:39 UTC
Taranogas 3rd wrote:

There were some pretty good arguments against nerfing high sec, but sadly they have now drowned in the sea of null tears, and ofc the "we have the data just go look it up, but we won't show it to you".




We have shown you, perhaps you should read the thread before you make comments like this.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#2327 - 2014-02-05 03:09:19 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
station trading

station trading is metagame and i don't think ccp should even touch it in case they ruin everything

ashley Eoner wrote:
ganking

i was serious when i said 'two to three times a day on the weekend'. i was looking at osmon system on eve-kill. weekdays average no ganks.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
isk faucet

it's been explained to you why this is irrelevant, stop clinging to it

Kimmi Chan wrote:
Personally, I blame the warlord OP and the incendiary language that is used.

op was a troll post

Jenn aSide wrote:
Your call, EVE is big boy land, if you can't deal with the consequences of your mistakes, stop making them.

I'm simply telling you to stop jumping to unfounded conclusions (ie "lp is the problem") and instead spend the time listening.

Kimmi's one of the least bad posters in this thread. Basically the only reason the later half of the thread has actually been constructive is Kimmi's receptivity.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#2328 - 2014-02-05 03:21:59 UTC
perhaps you should start calculating the time and investment required to move goods to nullsec via jump freighter too Roll

highsec logistics is not even a thing don't try to make it one

and if someone undercuts your order you just leave it there and wait for the price to rise (assuming you know how to read a graph)
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2329 - 2014-02-05 03:36:19 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its much like when we ran our ice interdictions. Everyone knew it was happening yet out of 600 killed macks not a single one had tanked their ship.


That's a self-selecting sample set right there, unless you're also claiming that you killed every single Mackinaw you saw?

The issue isn't that 100M ISK/hr is possible, the issue for you null sec people is that you know someone who does it as their main form of income. A 100M ISK/hr income is not common. If everyone was blitzing missions, the missions wouldn't be worth as much as they are. Blitzing is only worth as much as it is because a small proportion of the mission runners blitz those missions.

If anyone wants to dispute this claim (that shorter completion times affect the mission rewards) just take a look at "Materials for War Preparation": the completion time listed is 15 minutes, it's worth very little apart from the implant.

So to you null sec folk: if you feel that the income is unbalanced and needs to be adjusted, there is a simple fix: come to hi sec and blitz the life out of hi sec missions. This will give you a high income, while simultaneously messing up the game for everyone else. It's win-win!

There is no time-to-complete adjustment for anomalies: you will get the same reward time after time regardless of how quickly or slowly you complete the site.

Its much easier to sit in null and cry about what others have then go out and get it for yourself. Its much easier for people to sit in null-sec and ask CCP to change other parts of the sandbox because you feel its not fair.

Its sad that they think its even possible to make any kind of viable test that wouldn’t take literally months to set up and run and even then all the possible deviations would be astronomical.

So why do you think null-sec was nerfed? Random chance? Null sec was nerfed because the company (CCP) had the numbers to show it was needed.

I would place my faith in CCP to have accurate data over anything that could be manipulated by a player looking after their own interest.

Look kids….I don’t like loosing income any less than the next null bear. Its done and crying over it wont change it either.

If you really truly think that hi-sec is better then why in the hell are you in null-sec crying over it?

The only reason I keep my hi-sec pilot is for flexibility not as main income source.

You can argue all the numbers you want and you can hate on hi-sec or other players all you want but its still wont change the fact we took a hit to our income in Null because CCP had the data to support it.

So go rub some dirt on it stop the snubbing and stop acting like you have sand in your V
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2330 - 2014-02-05 03:53:51 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

I would place my faith in CCP to have accurate data over anything that could be manipulated by a player looking after their own interest.



There is a burned out statue in jita that stands as evidence that CCP gets it horribly wrong. Need I remind you about CCP having to nerf incursions to stop the economy from collapsing? The fact that it took CCP years to nerf meta 0 loot drops to make t1 BPOs viable after years of us telling them it was impossible ti turn a profit on t1 mods?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2331 - 2014-02-05 03:56:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

I would place my faith in CCP to have accurate data over anything that could be manipulated by a player looking after their own interest.



There is a burned out statue in jita that stands as evidence that CCP gets it horribly wrong.



And there's an increasing player base that says sometimes they get it right.

What's your point?

Mr Epeen Cool
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2332 - 2014-02-05 03:58:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Taranogas 3rd wrote:

There were some pretty good arguments against nerfing high sec, but sadly they have now drowned in the sea of null tears, and ofc the "we have the data just go look it up, but we won't show it to you".




We have shown you, perhaps you should read the thread before you make comments like this.

You havent shown shat. What I have seen is a nerf from CCP to Null. Think they did this for the null bear tears? I would suggest they did it because they had the data to support it not the fabricated shat that us as players could provide.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2333 - 2014-02-05 04:06:24 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Taranogas 3rd wrote:

There were some pretty good arguments against nerfing high sec, but sadly they have now drowned in the sea of null tears, and ofc the "we have the data just go look it up, but we won't show it to you".




We have shown you, perhaps you should read the thread before you make comments like this.

You havent shown shat. What I have seen is a nerf from CCP to Null. Think they did this for the null bear tears? I would suggest they did it because they had the data to support it not the fabricated shat that us as players could provide.


The latest nerf was done to try to make us want to use the ESS. Its failed.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2334 - 2014-02-05 04:08:41 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

I would place my faith in CCP to have accurate data over anything that could be manipulated by a player looking after their own interest.



There is a burned out statue in jita that stands as evidence that CCP gets it horribly wrong.



And there's an increasing player base that says sometimes they get it right.

What's your point?

Mr Epeen Cool


If you quoted the rest you would have seen that there are countless examples of CCP getting it wrong and the players getting it right.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2335 - 2014-02-05 04:08:57 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Taranogas 3rd wrote:

There were some pretty good arguments against nerfing high sec, but sadly they have now drowned in the sea of null tears, and ofc the "we have the data just go look it up, but we won't show it to you".




We have shown you, perhaps you should read the thread before you make comments like this.

You havent shown shat. What I have seen is a nerf from CCP to Null. Think they did this for the null bear tears? I would suggest they did it because they had the data to support it not the fabricated shat that us as players could provide.


You still have refused to look at the data I gathered in that spreadsheet. So yeah we've shown you plenty yet you decide to bury your head in the sand. You called my screen shots photoshoped. You haven't stated why any of the garbage you've spewed has any merit.

You have no excuse for not looking at it and if you want to claim its untrue you have everything you need to reproduce my experiment.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

Here I'll emulate you:

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


You're wrong because of risk/reward/faucet/sink/highsec/nullsec/lowsec/wormsec/supercap/moongoo/pi/highseclogistics/hamburger.

I WAS SPECIFIC SO YOU ARE WRONG.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2336 - 2014-02-05 04:11:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

I would place my faith in CCP to have accurate data over anything that could be manipulated by a player looking after their own interest.



There is a burned out statue in jita that stands as evidence that CCP gets it horribly wrong. Need I remind you about CCP having to nerf incursions to stop the economy from collapsing? The fact that it took CCP years to nerf meta 0 loot drops to make t1 BPOs viable after years of us telling them it was impossible ti turn a profit on t1 mods?


I like how you can make these leaps. Yes CCP started going down a path the community didnt like so from that point on everything they do that I dont like as an individual means they are wrong?

You guys are blinded by your own hate and your constant need to feel your always right.

Even after the fact that Null-sec was nerfed you still cant see past your own noses.

I guarantee should I care to waste my time digging through the post I could quote most of you guys with your owns words that pretty much can sum it up in four letters.....HTFU
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2337 - 2014-02-05 04:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

I would place my faith in CCP to have accurate data over anything that could be manipulated by a player looking after their own interest.



There is a burned out statue in jita that stands as evidence that CCP gets it horribly wrong.



And there's an increasing player base that says sometimes they get it right.

What's your point?

Mr Epeen Cool


If you quoted the rest you would have seen that there are countless examples of CCP getting it wrong and the players getting it right.


Countless?

There you go again. You must be a hoot after a fishing trip talking about the 30 ones that got away and not one of them under 50lbs.

I'd link the 'countless' times they got it right, but seriously can't be bothered. You'd find some reason why they don't count and yours do.

Mr Epeen Cool
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#2338 - 2014-02-05 04:15:42 UTC
this is what you get for treating a troll alt and a gimmick alt as if they're people
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2339 - 2014-02-05 04:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
^^: I know I tried to treat the guy like a normal person but, it didn't work. Oh well.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

You guys are blinded by your own hate and your constant need to feel your always right.


The irony is amazing.

Best idea is still to take some of the reward from L4&L3 then transfer it to L5, L2 and L1. Helps newbies, leaves economy alone and pseudo nerfs highsec reward.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2340 - 2014-02-05 04:29:27 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Taranogas 3rd wrote:

There were some pretty good arguments against nerfing high sec, but sadly they have now drowned in the sea of null tears, and ofc the "we have the data just go look it up, but we won't show it to you".




We have shown you, perhaps you should read the thread before you make comments like this.

You havent shown shat. What I have seen is a nerf from CCP to Null. Think they did this for the null bear tears? I would suggest they did it because they had the data to support it not the fabricated shat that us as players could provide.


You still have refused to look at the data I gathered in that spreadsheet. So yeah we've shown you plenty yet you decide to bury your head in the sand. You called my screen shots photoshoped. You haven't stated why any of the garbage you've spewed has any merit.

You have no excuse for not looking at it and if you want to claim its untrue you have everything you need to reproduce my experiment.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

Here I'll emulate you:

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


You're wrong because of risk/reward/faucet/sink/highsec/nullsec/lowsec/wormsec/supercap/moongoo/pi/highseclogistics/hamburger.

I WAS SPECIFIC SO YOU ARE WRONG.

As I stated so clearly before on a level my nine year old could comprehend. You data means nothing not because your a goon but because you have zero credibility. I could make a spread sheet and manipulate the test and the data to support any argument.

Even if your data supported my argument (which at this point don’t know don’t care ) it still doesn’t change the simple fact you have zero credibility.

It doesn’t change the fact you lack very specific base controls and key testing parameters.

Are you really that stupid or arrogant to think you could go out and set up any kind of credible test in a few days much less a few hours?

It seems more likely you think the players base or people on the forums are stupid enough to place validity in your so called data.

So please keep your flawed data as its worth exactly as much as the source that prepared it.