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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2201 - 2014-02-03 23:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Mr Epeen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
blabla4711 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

This from the people who have posted no evidence at all to back up their claims.


Funny remark from Mr. Shitposter himself who never provided anything at all, talk baseless bullshit and pure lies all the time and is about to party because he found a conflict averse sissy like this kimmy-gal who invests his/her time to try to prove something that means absolutely nothing in this subject at hand while you laugh your asses off playing forumgames. Lol


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

Check and mate, terrible highsec pubbie npc alt.


Good stuff!

Oh... hold on. No it isn't.

I can do a dozen missions and spreadsheet it too. They'll show me making next to nothing off them, but because that's what I want, I'll keep waving it in everyone's face to prove some pointless theory.

Mr Epeen Cool


Gurista Hidden Den. Runs 107. (used to fix military level).
Gurista Rally Point. Runs 304.
Gurista Port. Runs 128.
Gurista Hub. Runs 27 (current experiment).
Gurista Forsaken Den. Runs 47
Gurista Forlorn Den. Runs 49
Gurista Forlorn Rally Point. Runs 45
Gurista Forsaken Hub. Runs 3
Gurista Forsaken Rally Point. Runs 2
Gurista Forlorn Hub. Runs 1
Gurista Sanctum. Runs 4
Gurista Haven. Runs 3
Gurista Hidden Hub. Runs 3

I'd have to suggest again that I haven't see La Nariz post anything particularly unexpected, since I have done every available gurista nullsec anom (and made all the undocumented ones escalate so I know where they go), and as time and my systems military rating permits am working through them all. I suspect his forsaken hub numbers are for serpentis, not gurista, but he can tell us that.

I also know commander rates, a rough estimate for bounties and time (with an Ishtar) and escalation rates at least for the ones that are completed experiments (hence me being able to estimate 80m/hr for gurista hubs + complete the escalation when it pops, but as one can see, I probably need another 75 hubs yet to determine if that is true or not).
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2202 - 2014-02-03 23:50:05 UTC
The Forsaken Hubs are Gurista.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2203 - 2014-02-03 23:52:47 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

You claim to be good at understanding and interpreting scientific data and testing yet you fail at understanding and interpreting basic EVE numbers? What you seem to be doing is trying to manipulate the numbers to make or support your argument as any good forum troll will do.

Here is what I do know to be factual. I have pilots in both null and hi-sec (fact) I use both to make money (fact). I run lvl 4 missions on my hi-sec account (fact). I run anomalies on my null sec account (fact)

I make more isk per hour in null sec than I do in hi-sec even after null nerf (fact)

Regardless of all the facts and all the numbers and all the crying and snotting and sniveling and attempts at manipulating the numbers and data they still nerfed null sec (FACT). Like you I don’t have to like it or agree with it or think it’s right or think it’s wrong, but like you I can either accept and keep subbing my account or NOT.

Like you should I think the grass is greener in hi-sec I can pack my sheet up and move to hi-sec should I feel that’s where the money is or not.

Either way should I decide to stay subbed I have to accept the change…just like you.

It’s just THAT simple.


You still haven't looked at the sheet and are basically talking out of your buttcoin dispenser. The part I don't understand is you keep coming back with the same arguments that keep getting defeated by the same counters. I provided everything someone would need to reproduce what I did so if you think I'm manipulating the data go ahead and prove it.

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2204 - 2014-02-03 23:53:29 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Actually I did use the high end with anoms which is 90 mil, not 70 mil which is what most get. CCP nerfed everything that gave us higher results.

As you can see, 90 mil/hr is lower than 118 mil/hr which high sec level 4s have been shown to give in this thread.


One faction drop and you're suddenly 300mil/hr. And don't deny it, we're talking top anoms, and top anoms have that.
And 118 mil/hr is absolute best for hisec, with luck, assumptions and 108mil SP character. Your anoms can be cleared with the same speed at 10% of the SP and cost.



A three hundred mil drop from a faction spawn?

Where is this? The best I ever saw was a Gist C-type invuln, and it sold for like 50mil.

The GOOD **** comes out of rated sites....and/or belt pumping for officer spawns, which "may" spawn a faction spawn twice a day if you stay at it for 8 hours *shutter*
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2205 - 2014-02-03 23:55:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And again, Hawkeye misses the point.

Yes, numbskull, the individual upper bounds are higher in nullsec. But they are subtractive while highsec is multiplicative.

What you and the hi-sec haters like you seem to want is to force what you think should be your idea of hi-sec on to all of EVE.

Fortunately for hi-sec and the game CCP doesn’t seem to agree with you.

This game has survived for over ten years because of its diversity not because they tried to turn it into one big fukd up null-sec.

This whole cry baby thing of whaaaa hi-sec can make more money (matter of opinion) is getting way old and way tiresome. Especially when there is nothing stopping you from doing that part of the sandbox.

Stop asking CCP to modify everyone else sand box because you don’t like the part of the sand box you decided to play in..
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2206 - 2014-02-03 23:58:55 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The Forsaken Hubs are Gurista.


oh nice. I'll have to try mobile drones again.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2207 - 2014-02-04 00:06:52 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

You claim to be good at understanding and interpreting scientific data and testing yet you fail at understanding and interpreting basic EVE numbers? What you seem to be doing is trying to manipulate the numbers to make or support your argument as any good forum troll will do.

Here is what I do know to be factual. I have pilots in both null and hi-sec (fact) I use both to make money (fact). I run lvl 4 missions on my hi-sec account (fact). I run anomalies on my null sec account (fact)

I make more isk per hour in null sec than I do in hi-sec even after null nerf (fact)

Regardless of all the facts and all the numbers and all the crying and snotting and sniveling and attempts at manipulating the numbers and data they still nerfed null sec (FACT). Like you I don’t have to like it or agree with it or think it’s right or think it’s wrong, but like you I can either accept and keep subbing my account or NOT.

Like you should I think the grass is greener in hi-sec I can pack my sheet up and move to hi-sec should I feel that’s where the money is or not.

Either way should I decide to stay subbed I have to accept the change…just like you.

It’s just THAT simple.


You still haven't looked at the sheet and are basically talking out of your buttcoin dispenser. The part I don't understand is you keep coming back with the same arguments that keep getting defeated by the same counters. I provided everything someone would need to reproduce what I did so if you think I'm manipulating the data go ahead and prove it.


You fail to see your so called counters are irrelevant. Regardless of my argument or your argument or anyone’s argument, data or numbers. It doesn’t change the facts. Null got nerfed.

I have free choice to play in any part of the sandbox I want. Should I feel null-sec is my place to play it’s my choice….should I choose WH space it’s my choice. Insert (part of sandbox here) it’s my choice.

You can’t expect CCP to modify another part of the sandbox because you don’t like how it works as compared to the part of the sandbox you chose.

You shouldn’t need to understand numbers or data to grasp such a simple concept.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2208 - 2014-02-04 00:07:09 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Stop asking CCP to modify everyone else sand box because you don’t like the part of the sand box you decided to play in..


This only applies to things you don't like though instead of universally so I have no respect for your view point. I didn't see you posting against the mining barge EHP buff.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2209 - 2014-02-04 00:15:55 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

You fail to see your so called counters are irrelevant. Regardless of my argument or your argument or anyone’s argument, data or numbers. It doesn’t change the facts. Null got nerfed.

I have free choice to play in any part of the sandbox I want. Should I feel null-sec is my place to play it’s my choice….should I choose WH space it’s my choice. Insert (part of sandbox here) it’s my choice.

You can’t expect CCP to modify another part of the sandbox because you don’t like how it works as compared to the part of the sandbox you chose.

You shouldn’t need to understand numbers or data to grasp such a simple concept.


You aren't even talking about stuff relevant to the points being made in this thread. What exactly are you trying to get across here?

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2210 - 2014-02-04 00:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And again, Hawkeye misses the point.

Yes, numbskull, the individual upper bounds are higher in nullsec. But they are subtractive while highsec is multiplicative.

What you and the hi-sec haters like you seem to want is to force what you think should be your idea of hi-sec on to all of EVE.

Fortunately for hi-sec and the game CCP doesn’t seem to agree with you.

This game has survived for over ten years because of its diversity not because they tried to turn it into one big fukd up null-sec.

This whole cry baby thing of whaaaa hi-sec can make more money (matter of opinion) is getting way old and way tiresome. Especially when there is nothing stopping you from doing that part of the sandbox.

Stop asking CCP to modify everyone else sand box because you don’t like the part of the sand box you decided to play in..


They've come to recognize that players who play in null tend to stay subbed longer. 1x2 year sub life would ultimately be far more profitable than 3x8 month sub lifes, due to cost of sub acquisition.

In any case, by nerfing goo, they've literally changed the entire game meta around, so military power now requires being able to accommodate and profit from bears. IMO CCP would be remarkably foolish to ignore the benefits of a well stratified and highly social game over a solo dominated sandbox, and plainly even though nobody likes the ESS, its a step in the right direction. As was the highsec pocos.

ie having to care about level 4 income is just not as important as it used to be (and they are very old tired content, blah blah).
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#2211 - 2014-02-04 01:45:48 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Once again this goes off the rails.

welcome to The Big Lie

Kimmi Chan wrote:
If you reduce the amount of LP in New Eden, you reduce the effectiveness of the LP Store sink.

stop thinking 'sinks are good, faucets are bad'. they're just money flows, and neither is inherantly unbalanced. there was a percieved inflation problem a while back, but ccp's economist says things are evening out. from what i understand, an economy needs a certain amount of inflation, and if nerfing blitzing somehow unbalanced inflation rates, there are plenty of options to introduce greater sinks elsewhere.


by the way can we all agree to stop using horrible portgoonteaus tia
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2212 - 2014-02-04 01:46:04 UTC
New data from today.

So, not really a good day.

27,954,986 ISK/hr*

Run from SOE in Osmon.

Had an issue with blitzing Damsel - tank failed to manage the incoming DPS (incidentally, the old overtanked Golem would have done this and laughed). Had to break to run to Jita and grab an armor repper. Repped on the way back from Jita. But I did extend the session to compensate for the lost 20m.

On the last mission, I had my own little interruption. Suspect flagged pilot landed on grid at the research site as I was dropping the last BS. He camped the Heron wreck waiting to loot the objective to ransom it. I shut down the launchers and just tanked the last BS. Warped to a safe after a while and came back, hoping he had gotten bored and maybe decided to do something more interesting than spam duels at me all night. He had not. So I orbitted the wreck with him for almost an hour when he finally left I dropped the last BS in 3 volleys and made off with the Ships Crew from the Heron wreck.

I guess Highsec has their interruptions too.

*Assumes 2301 ISK/LP from Eve Data. Additionally, I am not subtracting the expense of the Armor Repper.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2213 - 2014-02-04 02:05:03 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
New data from today.

So, not really a good day.

27,954,986 ISK/hr*

Run from SOE in Osmon.

Had an issue with blitzing Damsel - tank failed to manage the incoming DPS (incidentally, the old overtanked Golem would have done this and laughed). Had to break to run to Jita and grab an armor repper. Repped on the way back from Jita. But I did extend the session to compensate for the lost 20m.

On the last mission, I had my own little interruption. Suspect flagged pilot landed on grid at the research site as I was dropping the last BS. He camped the Heron wreck waiting to loot the objective to ransom it. I shut down the launchers and just tanked the last BS. Warped to a safe after a while and came back, hoping he had gotten bored and maybe decided to do something more interesting than spam duels at me all night. He had not. So I orbitted the wreck with him for almost an hour when he finally left I dropped the last BS in 3 volleys and made off with the Ships Crew from the Heron wreck.

I guess Highsec has their interruptions too.

*Assumes 2301 ISK/LP from Eve Data. Additionally, I am not subtracting the expense of the Armor Repper.



Go to one of the 0.5 sec mission hubs, the payout is +20% in LP
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2214 - 2014-02-04 02:17:30 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
New data from today.

So, not really a good day.

27,954,986 ISK/hr*

Run from SOE in Osmon.

Had an issue with blitzing Damsel - tank failed to manage the incoming DPS (incidentally, the old overtanked Golem would have done this and laughed). Had to break to run to Jita and grab an armor repper. Repped on the way back from Jita. But I did extend the session to compensate for the lost 20m.

On the last mission, I had my own little interruption. Suspect flagged pilot landed on grid at the research site as I was dropping the last BS. He camped the Heron wreck waiting to loot the objective to ransom it. I shut down the launchers and just tanked the last BS. Warped to a safe after a while and came back, hoping he had gotten bored and maybe decided to do something more interesting than spam duels at me all night. He had not. So I orbitted the wreck with him for almost an hour when he finally left I dropped the last BS in 3 volleys and made off with the Ships Crew from the Heron wreck.

I guess Highsec has their interruptions too.

*Assumes 2301 ISK/LP from Eve Data. Additionally, I am not subtracting the expense of the Armor Repper.



Go to one of the 0.5 sec mission hubs, the payout is +20% in LP


Or I can multiply the ISK value of the LP I obtained by 1.2 and that would put me at 31,089,408.2 ISK/hr

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2215 - 2014-02-04 02:50:58 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Jenn aWhine, the main thrust of my question was, in fact, what do folk think would happen to the game?

Really what you seem to be saying is that you want to screw the income of hi-sec folk, so that null-sec folk earn more, relatively speaking.

That is a perfectly respectable position to hold, but to pretend it is for the greater good of the game is just not on.

I am sorry you do not care about me, or my play-style, but as I am basically a hi-sec player, I do care for you.


This is why high sec people are delusional hypocrites, they can even take a blatant wrong (selfishly supporting an imbalance because it benefits them) and make it seem like the people on the right side of the issue are somehow wrong.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2216 - 2014-02-04 03:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Kimmi Chan wrote:
New data from today.

So, not really a good day.

27,954,986 ISK/hr*

Run from SOE in Osmon.

Had an issue with blitzing Damsel - tank failed to manage the incoming DPS (incidentally, the old overtanked Golem would have done this and laughed). Had to break to run to Jita and grab an armor repper. Repped on the way back from Jita. But I did extend the session to compensate for the lost 20m.

On the last mission, I had my own little interruption. Suspect flagged pilot landed on grid at the research site as I was dropping the last BS. He camped the Heron wreck waiting to loot the objective to ransom it. I shut down the launchers and just tanked the last BS. Warped to a safe after a while and came back, hoping he had gotten bored and maybe decided to do something more interesting than spam duels at me all night. He had not. So I orbitted the wreck with him for almost an hour when he finally left I dropped the last BS in 3 volleys and made off with the Ships Crew from the Heron wreck.

I guess Highsec has their interruptions too.

*Assumes 2301 ISK/LP from Eve Data. Additionally, I am not subtracting the expense of the Armor Repper.


Don't waste your time, come back with a prophecy or a taranis kill the guy, the BS and loot. If he has lost his flag or his ship is too big, bump him with a prophecy which is pretty quick, pretty agile and easy to bump with. Those pilots are happy if they obstruct you, really happy if they flag your marauder, but not really interested in an insured space ship that is going to be done before they get their killboat on grid, and a pilot who plainly enjoys fighting back and has the relevant insurable spacepixels. They may enjoy the resulting incident, but they won't be seeking you for tears or pinata in the future.

You can forum warrior whilst you wait out your flags.

if thats all too hard, cancel the mission and leave him there.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2217 - 2014-02-04 04:06:57 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
New data from today.

So, not really a good day.

27,954,986 ISK/hr*

Run from SOE in Osmon.

Had an issue with blitzing Damsel - tank failed to manage the incoming DPS (incidentally, the old overtanked Golem would have done this and laughed). Had to break to run to Jita and grab an armor repper. Repped on the way back from Jita. But I did extend the session to compensate for the lost 20m.

On the last mission, I had my own little interruption. Suspect flagged pilot landed on grid at the research site as I was dropping the last BS. He camped the Heron wreck waiting to loot the objective to ransom it. I shut down the launchers and just tanked the last BS. Warped to a safe after a while and came back, hoping he had gotten bored and maybe decided to do something more interesting than spam duels at me all night. He had not. So I orbitted the wreck with him for almost an hour when he finally left I dropped the last BS in 3 volleys and made off with the Ships Crew from the Heron wreck.

I guess Highsec has their interruptions too.

*Assumes 2301 ISK/LP from Eve Data. Additionally, I am not subtracting the expense of the Armor Repper.


Don't waste your time, come back with a prophecy or a taranis kill the guy, the BS and loot. If he has lost his flag or his ship is too big, bump him with a prophecy which is pretty quick, pretty agile and easy to bump with. Those pilots are happy if they obstruct you, really happy if they flag your marauder, but not really interested in an insured space ship that is going to be done before they get their killboat on grid, and a pilot who plainly enjoys fighting back and has the relevant insurable spacepixels. They may enjoy the resulting incident, but they won't be seeking you for tears or pinata in the future.

You can forum warrior whilst you wait out your flags.

if thats all too hard, cancel the mission and leave him there.

Can't really kill him without concord intervention since it doesn't sound like he did anything that caused him to go suspect. Though leaving and cancelling is an option for wanting to take care of it quickly.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2218 - 2014-02-04 04:31:34 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Can't really kill him without concord intervention since it doesn't sound like he did anything that caused him to go suspect. Though leaving and cancelling is an option for wanting to take care of it quickly.


Mission runners never want for sec status.

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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#2219 - 2014-02-04 04:38:25 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Can't really kill him without concord intervention since it doesn't sound like he did anything that caused him to go suspect. Though leaving and cancelling is an option for wanting to take care of it quickly.

"suspect-flagged pilot landed on grid"

most ninjas will deliberately be suspect since they don't give a rat's about the item
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2220 - 2014-02-04 04:44:26 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Can't really kill him without concord intervention since it doesn't sound like he did anything that caused him to go suspect. Though leaving and cancelling is an option for wanting to take care of it quickly.


Kimmi said it was flagged - they usually flag on the way in by taking something from a wreck, so the flag is almost certainly long enough for a reship, and if he lacked the firepower to kill BS himself, then it plainly wasn't anything that you can't pull a cheap counter from the mission station for.

The contents of the heron are worth ~20m to a sisters runner but as little as 7m to a navy runner with bad skills, which means the entertainment really isnt in the item (unlike a wei todaki), its in getting the marauder flagged or some local tears.

Point being, put some cheap counters in the mission station, at least then you get the choice to skip or kill. Your mission boat simply can't deal with another player safely. If you have only your mission boat, then you have no choices.