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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2181 - 2014-02-03 21:02:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Didn't someone say that was completed before a nerf a while back? Have anything more recent?


The warp speed changes can infact make them better due to 44% of time being spent in warp. The drone changes are not nearly as bad as people try to make out and there are several other ships that can do the same job.


Even so, since 69% of the income is coming from LP, how do you feel it would be best to nerf highsec income Baltec? That is the part that I have not seen iterated by anyone here to my recollection.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2182 - 2014-02-03 21:07:55 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Even so, since 69% of the income is coming from LP, how do you feel it would be best to nerf highsec income Baltec? That is the part that I have not seen iterated by anyone here to my recollection.


Stop blitzing. If CCP wish to keep LP levels high then remove ship bounties from high sec missions or stop blitzing and add on LP rewards on NPC kills in null sec space (without needing the ESS)
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2183 - 2014-02-03 21:18:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Even so, since 69% of the income is coming from LP, how do you feel it would be best to nerf highsec income Baltec? That is the part that I have not seen iterated by anyone here to my recollection.


Stop blitzing. If CCP wish to keep LP levels high then remove ship bounties from high sec missions or stop blitzing and add on LP rewards on NPC kills in null sec space (without needing the ESS)


Baltec, the LP must flow. I would like to see a lot more LP in Null as I think that is the pain point for you all. Blitzing has to stay. The LP must flow. I don't like it. I don't like blitzing but if the LP doesn't flow then the sink gets clogged. You could actually resolve this with a buff to Null without directly nerfing High. Buff Null with LP. Indirectly, it would be a nerf to High but would all still be dependent on the player market.

That's what I think anyway.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2184 - 2014-02-03 21:19:20 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sorry, just could not resist laughing at your ego Smile


Where's the ego in the post you quoted?


The, 'I am a scientist', bit, It is totally irrelevant.


No its not because the fool was trying to tell me I don't understand scientific testing and data controls when I've literally made my career out of those.

If you were good at understanding scientific testing and data you may want to go back to it because you sure do seem to suck at understanding basic EVE.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2185 - 2014-02-03 21:29:51 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

If you were good at understanding scientific testing and data you may want to go back to it because you sure do seem to suck at understanding basic EVE.


So you're telling me I'm bad at EVE? What does that have to do with understanding what makes a good experiment?

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2186 - 2014-02-03 21:40:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Even so, since 69% of the income is coming from LP, how do you feel it would be best to nerf highsec income Baltec? That is the part that I have not seen iterated by anyone here to my recollection.
Stop blitzing. If CCP wish to keep LP levels high then remove ship bounties from high sec missions or stop blitzing and add on LP rewards on NPC kills in null sec space (without needing the ESS)
This should of been done a long time ago. Making people kill stuff in mission insetad of bypass every part of it as fast as possible would go a logn way toward reducing the amount of ISK/hours that can be earned in high. Then they can hit the most crazy LP stores if needed with the nerf bat.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2187 - 2014-02-03 21:41:29 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

If you were good at understanding scientific testing and data you may want to go back to it because you sure do seem to suck at understanding basic EVE.


So you're telling me I'm bad at EVE? What does that have to do with understanding what makes a good experiment?


The real question is, what field of study did you go through to be able to craft such lovely posts?
ashley Eoner
#2188 - 2014-02-03 21:43:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

I'm only asking you to apply the same standards to yourself that you demand of those that disagree with you. I also want you to see the flaw in your statement. Or is that why you refuse to list them?


No what you are doing is making a fool of yourself. You are calling me out and implying that I am telling lies on something that would take anyone a matter of minutes to find.


Yeah because backing up your statements with facts and proof is for those that disagree with you only.

Nice to see you continue to refuse to provide any data to back any of your claims.


Applied dps would be lowered in your described situation while not achieving the speeds you claimed.



I would like to thank Kimmi for proving my point by listing his/her implants which show no room for what Baltec claimed.

To address the issue about the ESS. I don't see why he shouldn't use all the tools available to null. We're certainly using all the tools available to highsec. At the very least it'd be interesting to see it's real world effect. As last I was aware pretty much no one was using it for the intended reason.



Seems to me that the a simple change to missions to stop blitzing would be enough to fix most of the problem. SOE LP values would still cause those missions to be higher then average and nerfing blitzing would increase the value of the LP. I'm not sure how CCP could adjust the SOE LP to bring it more in line with the rest of highsec without resulting in potential problems. THe least problematic would be to spread the availability of SOE LP. As once more people can easily run LP in systems away from gankers the LP value will decrease. Like stoic said earlier.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2189 - 2014-02-03 21:58:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
This should of been done a long time ago. Making people kill stuff in mission insetad of bypass every part of it as fast as possible would go a logn way toward reducing the amount of ISK/hours that can be earned in high. Then they can hit the most crazy LP stores if needed with the nerf bat.


ashley Eoner wrote:
Seems to me that the a simple change to missions to stop blitzing would be enough to fix most of the problem. SOE LP values would still cause those missions to be higher then average and nerfing blitzing would increase the value of the LP. I'm not sure how CCP could adjust the SOE LP to bring it more in line with the rest of highsec without resulting in potential problems. THe least problematic would be to spread the availability of SOE LP. As once more people can easily run LP in systems away from gankers the LP value will decrease. Like stoic said earlier.


If you reduce the amount of LP in New Eden, you reduce the effectiveness of the LP Store sink.

I think blitzing is stupid. But if you remove it and force full clears for all missions you reduce LP/hr which means it takes longer to buy a ship from the LP Store. Everytime someone buys a Nestor from the LP store, that is 100,000,000 of ISK removed from the game forever. Stratios - 20,000,000. Sisters Core Probes 1,200,000 per 10.

That sink must continue to consume ISK. It must. If there is more LP and you put it in Null, the sink continues to run normally AND has the added benefit of making those in Null a little richer and some people in High a little less rich FROM LP ONLY.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2190 - 2014-02-03 22:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
ashley Eoner wrote:

Yeah because backing up your statements with facts and proof is for those that disagree with you only.

Nice to see you continue to refuse to provide any data to back any of your claims.


Applied dps would be lowered in your described situation while not achieving the speeds you claimed.



I would like to thank Kimmi for proving my point by listing his/her implants which show no room for what Baltec claimed.

To address the issue about the ESS. I don't see why he shouldn't use all the tools available to null. We're certainly using all the tools available to highsec. At the very least it'd be interesting to see it's real world effect. As last I was aware pretty much no one was using it for the intended reason.



Seems to me that the a simple change to missions to stop blitzing would be enough to fix most of the problem. SOE LP values would still cause those missions to be higher then average and nerfing blitzing would increase the value of the LP. I'm not sure how CCP could adjust the SOE LP to bring it more in line with the rest of highsec without resulting in potential problems. THe least problematic would be to spread the availability of SOE LP. As once more people can easily run LP in systems away from gankers the LP value will decrease. Like stoic said earlier.


If you look at the sheet I am currently gathering data for the ESS so there will be some evidence of its effect on isk/hr. He has provided proof as well, most of the crap has been flowing from the pro-highsec group as can be evidenced by the hordes of npc alts that came here to shitpost. The funniest part of all of it is I provided everything one would need to reproduce what I have done yet not a single highsec pubbie has attempted to do it and has defaulted to their standard crap arguments like "lol no." I even provided screenshots of my wallet when asked to prove its not just made up crap and they still default to "lol no."

The pro-highsec crowd has a lot to prove while the pro-balance crowd has shown plenty of proof already and continues to provide more proof.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing

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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2191 - 2014-02-03 22:08:23 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

Yeah because backing up your statements with facts and proof is for those that disagree with you only.

Nice to see you continue to refuse to provide any data to back any of your claims.


Applied dps would be lowered in your described situation while not achieving the speeds you claimed.



I would like to thank Kimmi for proving my point by listing his/her implants which show no room for what Baltec claimed.

To address the issue about the ESS. I don't see why he shouldn't use all the tools available to null. We're certainly using all the tools available to highsec. At the very least it'd be interesting to see it's real world effect. As last I was aware pretty much no one was using it for the intended reason.



Seems to me that the a simple change to missions to stop blitzing would be enough to fix most of the problem. SOE LP values would still cause those missions to be higher then average and nerfing blitzing would increase the value of the LP. I'm not sure how CCP could adjust the SOE LP to bring it more in line with the rest of highsec without resulting in potential problems. THe least problematic would be to spread the availability of SOE LP. As once more people can easily run LP in systems away from gankers the LP value will decrease. Like stoic said earlier.


If you look at the sheet I am currently gathering data for the ESS so there will be some evidence of its effect on isk/hr. He has provided proof as well, most of the crap has been flowing from the pro-highsec group as can be evidenced by the hordes of npc alts that came here to shitpost. The funniest part of all of it is I provided everything one would need to reproduce what I have done yet not a single highsec pubbie has attempted to do it and has defaulted to their standard crap arguments like "lol no


It would take me a bit to fly an Ishtar and I'm Caldari. I would not be caught dead in a Gallente ship. Or maybe that's the only way... Blink

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2192 - 2014-02-03 22:09:05 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

If you were good at understanding scientific testing and data you may want to go back to it because you sure do seem to suck at understanding basic EVE.


So you're telling me I'm bad at EVE? What does that have to do with understanding what makes a good experiment?


The real question is, what field of study did you go through to be able to craft such lovely posts?


I earned my posting degree from the popular online hookup site Somethingawful.com

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2193 - 2014-02-03 22:11:30 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:

It would take me a bit to fly an Ishtar and I'm Caldari. I would not be caught dead in a Gallente ship. Or maybe that's the only way... Blink


I picked the ishtar because it along with the VNI is a commonly accepted mid-range ratting setup of the current meta. Its pretty much like picking a CNR for mission running.

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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2194 - 2014-02-03 22:30:15 UTC
La Nariz, forgive my ignorance but what kind of travel time exists for completing these? I assume the "lag" time is the time between completion and bounties actually hitting the wallet? Are you scanning down another or travelling to it before or after the lag time?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2195 - 2014-02-03 22:33:59 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
La Nariz, forgive my ignorance but what kind of travel time exists for completing these? I assume the "lag" time is the time between completion and bounties actually hitting the wallet? Are you scanning down another or travelling to it before or after the lag time?


I am in a -0.6 that spawns the anomalies I am not competing with anyone right now but have had several gangs come by. You don't need to scan them down at all the lag time is from me wanting to completely isolate each anomalies income from the rest. The average warp time is probable 1.5-2.25 minutes per anomaly. The ending time is when I enter warp return to my safe to cloak and wait out the income ticks. The begin time is when I enter warp to get to the anomaly I intend to run. I can attempt to put a meaningful number to travel time after I finish this second test.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2196 - 2014-02-03 23:23:45 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
This should of been done a long time ago. Making people kill stuff in mission insetad of bypass every part of it as fast as possible would go a logn way toward reducing the amount of ISK/hours that can be earned in high. Then they can hit the most crazy LP stores if needed with the nerf bat.


ashley Eoner wrote:
Seems to me that the a simple change to missions to stop blitzing would be enough to fix most of the problem. SOE LP values would still cause those missions to be higher then average and nerfing blitzing would increase the value of the LP. I'm not sure how CCP could adjust the SOE LP to bring it more in line with the rest of highsec without resulting in potential problems. THe least problematic would be to spread the availability of SOE LP. As once more people can easily run LP in systems away from gankers the LP value will decrease. Like stoic said earlier.


If you reduce the amount of LP in New Eden, you reduce the effectiveness of the LP Store sink.

I think blitzing is stupid. But if you remove it and force full clears for all missions you reduce LP/hr which means it takes longer to buy a ship from the LP Store. Everytime someone buys a Nestor from the LP store, that is 100,000,000 of ISK removed from the game forever. Stratios - 20,000,000. Sisters Core Probes 1,200,000 per 10.

That sink must continue to consume ISK. It must. If there is more LP and you put it in Null, the sink continues to run normally AND has the added benefit of making those in Null a little richer and some people in High a little less rich FROM LP ONLY.


You could always account for it elsewhere by for example increasing npc corp tax X% to make up for it.

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2197 - 2014-02-03 23:24:53 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Actually I did use the high end with anoms which is 90 mil, not 70 mil which is what most get. CCP nerfed everything that gave us higher results.

As you can see, 90 mil/hr is lower than 118 mil/hr which high sec level 4s have been shown to give in this thread.


One faction drop and you're suddenly 300mil/hr. And don't deny it, we're talking top anoms, and top anoms have that.
And 118 mil/hr is absolute best for hisec, with luck, assumptions and 108mil SP character. Your anoms can be cleared with the same speed at 10% of the SP and cost.


Total Gurista Anomolies Cleared : 723 (estimated 9000 minutes of gameplay).
Total Commanders Spawned : 9
Total Commander Loot : 10.5m isk. Roll

If you wanted to farm faction commanders in anomalies, I suggest you work out where the highsec dens collect up, because they are the only ones with a 1 in 10 faction spawn rate, and I have a whole lg snake set to show for that, and I've sold something like 600m of spare implants from those.

Gurista faction loot is probably largely extracted from gurista military operations complex, and possibly from belt ratting in the rare best systems (which I don't do, so can't comment on the spawn rate).
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2198 - 2014-02-03 23:30:13 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hell Ball wrote:

..............But they still happen tho...............


The last two faction drops I have had dropped tags and ammo.

Most faction mods that drop are junk, so yea it might happen but its not going to make any difference to your isk/hr.


That's the same thinking that killed Diablo 3.

See, it's not about you and your bad luck. It's about the average of everyone that runs these things. Not everyone is as sadly lacking of good drops as you are.

Cherry picking one player's performance to bolster your argument is hardly meaningful of anything. Just a waste of forum space.

Mr Epeen Cool


You would have to think I do far more anom ratting than Baltec1 does. See post above for commander statistics for anom ratting.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2199 - 2014-02-03 23:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

If you were good at understanding scientific testing and data you may want to go back to it because you sure do seem to suck at understanding basic EVE.


So you're telling me I'm bad at EVE? What does that have to do with understanding what makes a good experiment?

You claim to be good at understanding and interpreting scientific data and testing yet you fail at understanding and interpreting basic EVE numbers? What you seem to be doing is trying to manipulate the numbers to make or support your argument as any good forum troll will do.

Here is what I do know to be factual. I have pilots in both null and hi-sec (fact) I use both to make money (fact). I run lvl 4 missions on my hi-sec account (fact). I run anomalies on my null sec account (fact)

I make more isk per hour in null sec than I do in hi-sec even after null nerf (fact)

Regardless of all the facts and all the numbers and all the crying and snotting and sniveling and attempts at manipulating the numbers and data they still nerfed null sec (FACT). Like you I don’t have to like it or agree with it or think it’s right or think it’s wrong, but like you I can either accept and keep subbing my account or NOT.

Like you should I think the grass is greener in hi-sec I can pack my sheet up and move to hi-sec should I feel that’s where the money is or not.

Either way should I decide to stay subbed I have to accept the change…just like you.

It’s just THAT simple.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2200 - 2014-02-03 23:37:55 UTC
And again, Hawkeye misses the point.

Yes, numbskull, the individual upper bounds are higher in nullsec. But they are subtractive while highsec is multiplicative.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.